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Kenny Vaccaro - What's he worth?


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On 1/4/2018 at 10:09 AM, tyler735 said:

I'm a big Vaccaro supporter, I think he's a valuable defender for us when healthy given his versatility to line up all over. However, I'd have to agree that if he's not willing to take a fairly reasonable offer, we would be best to just move forward with Marcus Williams, Bell, and Bush for now.

I also have been a Vaccaro supporter but ive changed my view on him recently. I honestly feel we should move on. Williams needs to evolve into the leader of the secondary and I believe he will with Vaccaro gone. I just dont feel Vaccaro is consistant enough to be rewarded with the type of extention he will likley command on the open market. Bell is a solid SS and the draft is deep at the position. I say move fwd with the young guys and invest the money more wisely in FA.

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5 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

I also have been a Vaccaro supporter but ive changed my view on him recently. I honestly feel we should move on. Williams needs to evolve into the leader of the secondary and I believe he will with Vaccaro gone. I just dont feel Vaccaro is consistant enough to be rewarded with the type of extention he will likley command on the open market. Bell is a solid SS and the draft is deep at the position. I say move fwd with the young guys and invest the money more wisely in FA.

I think it all boils down to how much Vaccaro is going to ask for. If we make a deep run in the playoffs this year, maybe he's willing to take a lower contract to have a chance on a contending team that he's familiar with. He's still just 26 years old, so he has a lot of good football left and is just hitting his prime. If he wants a huge contract I think we show him the door and let someone else give him his big pay day. If he's not asking for too much for a solid starting caliber safety, I think we resign him. He provides good versatility. I believe before he was placed on the IR, he ranked between top 10 and top 15 for coverage in the slot. He's a solid tackler, and does seem to make a decent amount of splash plays. As you mentioned though if we don't bring him back, we do have some guys in place to work with going forward.

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18 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

I also have been a Vaccaro supporter but ive changed my view on him recently. I honestly feel we should move on. Williams needs to evolve into the leader of the secondary and I believe he will with Vaccaro gone. I just dont feel Vaccaro is consistant enough to be rewarded with the type of extention he will likley command on the open market. Bell is a solid SS and the draft is deep at the position. I say move fwd with the young guys and invest the money more wisely in FA.

I'm with you, I also was a big Vaccaro fan and would've loved to re-sign him (at the right price) but now I just want to move on. He's the most maddeningly inconsistent player I've seen, he can look really brilliant or like utter trash. We've used high picks on 2 young safeties, both of which have played very well for us and can step up. Marcus Williams is already playing amazing since KV got injured. 

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6 hours ago, Spartica4Real said:

I'm with you, I also was a big Vaccaro fan and would've loved to re-sign him (at the right price) but now I just want to move on. He's the most maddeningly inconsistent player I've seen, he can look really brilliant or like utter trash. We've used high picks on 2 young safeties, both of which have played very well for us and can step up. Marcus Williams is already playing amazing since KV got injured. 

I also have begun to question exactly what type of "Leader" Vaccaro is being for this unit. I have nothing concrete but there are whispers around the city that Vaccaro is very full of himself and actually has been somewhat of a detriment to some of the young guys so far... One person I spoke to that is around the facility told me that just because people consider Vaccaro a leader dosent mean hes leading in the right direction.

 

I took this to mean that Vaccaro could be having a somewhat negative influence on the younger players which came as a shock to me because ive always heard that it was the other way around. This could also be coming to light in a very frustrating season for Vaccaro personally. Despite the team success, he personally ended 2016 on a 4 game PED suspension then entered the season on the last year of his deal while knowing the Saints uswd two premium draft picks on Safetys over the last two years. All this was followed buy trade rumors (he was almost moved to Dallas for Orlando Scandrick and a pick) as well as his public benching by Payton early in the year. Since then hes been wildly inconsistent, then he suffers a groin tear and tries to play through it until ultimately ending up on IR before the playoffs.

 

This just does not seem like the type of player that would be considered a sound future investment IMO. The question is, if we allow Vaccaro to walk does Oakfor follow? That also might noy be all to concerning with Henderickson in the mix.

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I just went back and read through most of this thread. It's pretty interesting how our opinions of a player can change.

I'm still for letting the guy walk, frankly. I haven't changed my mind on this situation much at all, other than NOW I'm questioning his leadership.

Now, this playoff situation will show what we've got. IF...and I stress if, we beat the Panthers, our secondary is going to have an incredible task of defending that Minny offense with one of the best, if not best, receiving tandems in the league. Vacarro F'ed that one up the first go around, so now we'll possibly see what his replacements are capable of. If they perform on a high level, KV's value keeps dropping, in my opinion.

Now about Oakafor. Do we really think a player would move on from a young, talented, and improving defense just because his BFF makes a move? I guess I really don't think that would happen.

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1 hour ago, SSK said:

If what Worm said is correct, then let him walk!

If it isnt, Im still on the side of keeping him. Bell, Bush and PJ didnt look good against the Panthers. 

Actually I felt Bell looked alot like Kenny... Was off in some coverages but made big plays when needed, especially the big one at the end. He's alot cheaper and younger. More athletic and faster...

 

Might need the money we'd spend on Kenny to improve elsewhere.

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The Saints signed former LSU Safety, Ricky Jefferson to a future contract. 

It sure seems like they're prepping for KV to move on.

Jefferson isn't the end-all-be-all, but is a noticeable move toward securing the position with depth.

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On 1/8/2018 at 10:09 AM, whodatworm23 said:

Actually I felt Bell looked alot like Kenny... Was off in some coverages but made big plays when needed, especially the big one at the end. He's alot cheaper and younger. More athletic and faster...

 

Might need the money we'd spend on Kenny to improve elsewhere.

Unless KV comes back for cheap (compared to what I believe his market value to be) then he's gone. I actually had the same observation as you about Bell, he feels like KV-lite in that he's not as good as KV when at their peak but his lows aren't as low either. He's more consistent but still inconsistent at the same time. Add in his youth to the equation and the fact that we have Williams, KV's no longer needed here. 

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10 hours ago, Spartica4Real said:

Unless KV comes back for cheap (compared to what I believe his market value to be) then he's gone. I actually had the same observation as you about Bell, he feels like KV-lite in that he's not as good as KV when at their peak but his lows aren't as low either. He's more consistent but still inconsistent at the same time. Add in his youth to the equation and the fact that we have Williams, KV's no longer needed here. 

While I agree with the KV lite analogie what your forgetting is that Bell's on a rookie deal with much more upside due to being faster and more athletic. Dont get me wrong, I like Kenny but the Saints have proven this year that they can win with a youth movement and I expect that to continue next year as guys like Vaccaro and Oakfor will be allowed to leave in favor of younger cheapet players like Bell and Hendrickson as the Saints continue to influx this roster with more young talent through the draft to build depth.

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On 1/5/2018 at 1:52 PM, whodatworm23 said:

I also have been a Vaccaro supporter but ive changed my view on him recently. I honestly feel we should move on. Williams needs to evolve into the leader of the secondary and I believe he will with Vaccaro gone. I just dont feel Vaccaro is consistant enough to be rewarded with the type of extention he will likley command on the open market. Bell is a solid SS and the draft is deep at the position. I say move fwd with the young guys and invest the money more wisely in FA.

I hate to agree, but I do 100%

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Spend that money you would be giving Vaccaro on a defensive lineman in free agency. I'm not sure exactly who will be available this off-season, but there has to be someone.

Poe from Atlanta could be a good fit. Big guy who can push the pocket.

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1 hour ago, JMG5 said:

Spend that money you would be giving Vaccaro on a defensive lineman in free agency. I'm not sure exactly who will be available this off-season, but there has to be someone.

Poe from Atlanta could be a good fit. Big guy who can push the pocket.

Well... Im figuring Brees will get a deal somewhere around 2 years 50 million. After that Alex Oakfor is priority #2 as far as retaining FA. Oakfor was having a very good season before he was injured and was grading out as a very formidable counterpart to Cam Jordan as a very solid dual DE. Once FA hits Im still of the belief that the Saints will persue Malcolm Butler. I dont think that is over, Ken Crawley has had a solid season but I dont feel the Saints are sold on him as a long term starter and would perfer to move him to a reserve / nickel role. Vaccaro has said this season that he wants to be in NOLA and commented that the grass isnt always greener... If hes willing to accept what the Saints are offering I can see him back but in the end I feel he will find many more dollars on the open market.

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Just now, whodatworm23 said:

Well... Im figuring Brees will get a deal somewhere around 2 years 50 million. After that Alex Oakfor is priority #2 as far as retaining FA. Oakfor was having a very good season before he was injured and was grading out as a very formidable counterpart to Cam Jordan as a very solid dual DE. Once FA hits Im still of the belief that the Saints will persue Malcolm Butler. I dont think that is over, Ken Crawley has had a solid season but I dont feel the Saints are sold on him as a long term starter and would perfer to move him to a reserve / nickel role. Vaccaro has said this season that he wants to be in NOLA and commented that the grass isnt always greener... If hes willing to accept what the Saints are offering I can see him back but in the end I feel he will find many more dollars on the open market.

We can live without Kenny. He is inconsistent and Bell has played just as well, if not better, in his absence. Let him walk. Spend the money on other players.

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