2022 CFB Talk/Draft Prospects

[DreamKid]

1 hour ago, RavensfanRD said:

How you feeling about Jermaine Johnson II?

Haven't done the deep film dive on him yet. Obviously he dominated at the Senior Bowl and tested great, but he is overaged so you really want to make sure he's "the guy" as he won't have as much potential to dig into as say a 20-21 YO player would. 

[BareYourTeeth]

32 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

I’m starting the “McDuffie at 14 if we don’t trade down” train.

Think he has both a very high floor and ceiling.

I don't think the team will be interested in him with his 29.75" arm length.

[Ray Reed]

2 minutes ago, BareYourTeeth said:

I don't think the team will be interested in him with his 29.75" arm length.

Meh. Tavon’s were 30” and despite his injury issues he was a reliable playmaker and coverage asset for this team. 

Would be stupid to ding a guy who clearly has high level coverage/pursuit/tackling skills at the CB position for arm length IMO...he’s not an OT

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

I think we need an elite edge rusher over anything else. I can deal with bad CB's but not being able to pressure the QB is just a non starter.

[DreamKid]

7 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I think we need an elite edge rusher over anything else. I can deal with bad CB's but not being able to pressure the QB is just a non starter.

CB is 10x more important than EDGE. You build modern defenses back to front. A good CB stable has propped up our defense for years now, in spite of every other unit frequently underperforming(EDGE, LB, S). No other position on defense can do that. Good coverage can make your pass rush better, the reverse isn't true. Doesn't matter if we have prime Suggs & Dumervil, if a bad CB like Frank Walker is back there in coverage the WR will get open and make a play. An astronomical pressure % for an elite EDGE player would be something close to or over 20%. That's still only 1 in 5 times rushing the passer that they're able to affect the QB. Compare that to a good or elite CB who can influence the QB every single passing play by erasing one of his WRs. 

The only way you can get away with not having a top flight secondary and hoping to field a top defense is if your front is truly sickening. Like the 49ers when they had their dominant year. It only took like five Top 10 picks to get that done for them though, so it's not exactly a realistic goal. To truly rely on your rush like that you need the sum of many parts, and most importantly you need elite interior pressure as well. Buckner, Donald, Jones, etc. They're the true heart of any dominant pass rush. Interior pressure is much more valuable than exterior. 

All that said I would love an upgrade/addition at EDGE, and a boost to our pass rush in general. Sucks that Travon Walker had to drop all time testing numbers at the combine. He was a perfect fit with his inside/outside versatility. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

26 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

CB is 10x more important than EDGE. You build modern defenses back to front. A good CB stable has propped up our defense for years now, in spite of every other unit frequently underperforming(EDGE, LB, S). No other position on defense can do that. Good coverage can make your pass rush better, the reverse isn't true. Doesn't matter if we have prime Suggs & Dumervil, if a bad CB like Frank Walker is back there in coverage the WR will get open and make a play. An astronomical pressure % for an elite EDGE player would be something close to or over 20%. That's still only 1 in 5 times rushing the passer that they're able to affect the QB. Compare that to a good or elite CB who can influence the QB every single passing play by erasing one of his WRs. 

The only way you can get away with not having a top flight secondary and hoping to field a top defense is if your front is truly sickening. Like the 49ers when they had their dominant year. It only took like five Top 10 picks to get that done for them though, so it's not exactly a realistic goal. To truly rely on your rush like that you need the sum of many parts, and most importantly you need elite interior pressure as well. Buckner, Donald, Jones, etc. They're the true heart of any dominant pass rush. Interior pressure is much more valuable than exterior. 

All that said I would love an upgrade/addition at EDGE, and a boost to our pass rush in general. Sucks that Travon Walker had to drop all time testing numbers at the combine. He was a perfect fit with his inside/outside versatility. 

Cb's are important when you're blitzing, which we did.

If we're not blitzing as much we NEED pressure otherwise it doesn't matter.

[DreamKid]

14 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Cb's are important when you're blitzing, which we did.

If we're not blitzing as much we NEED pressure otherwise it doesn't matter.

😂 CBs are only important to blitz heavy teams? Okay... I hope all the GMs that pick up ahead of us in future drafts follow that philosophy as well. I'll gladly take all those low value high end CBs off their hands.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

34 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

😂 CBs are only important to blitz heavy teams? Okay... I hope all the GMs that pick up ahead of us in future drafts follow that philosophy as well. I'll gladly take all those low value high end CBs off their hands.

Is there a good NFL team that has no pass rush but elite CB's and doesn't blitz every play?

We already have Humphrey + Peters. I just don't see the value in spending another high pick on a CB vs. edge rusher.

Edited March 10, 2022 by AFlaccoSeagulls

[DreamKid]

16 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Is there a good NFL team that has no pass rush but elite CB's and doesn't blitz every play?

A team blitzing a lot isn't necessarily an indictment. It can be a strong course to victory afforded  by elite cover pieces in the secondary. Plus there were plenty of games even during the Wink era where we didn't spend the whole game sending more than 4 or 5.

24 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

We already have Humphrey + Peters. I just don't see the value in spending another high pick on a CB vs. edge rusher.

I was only commenting on your "I'm fine with bad CBs" take. I have no issues with us taking a pass rusher in the 1st. Also don't have an issue with us spending another high pick on a CB. As I said, they're the lifeblood of modern NFL defenses and you can never have enough- as we've seen. We saw the impact going from Marcus Peters to Anthony Averett had, and AA isn't even a bad CB. We've also seen the impact flexibility afforded to us when all of our plus CBs have been healthy. Letting Marlon shadow dominant TEs, letting Jimmy take reps at FS, and just generally establishing the matchups we want. Peters is going to be on the wrong side of 30 in a year, and past him and Marlon we have nothing secure at the position right now. The FO would be stupid to neglect the position should a strong talent fall. 

FWIW, Decosta at his combine presser said you can get a CB at any time with this class. Could be smoke, could also mean we will wait until the middle rounds. We'll find out. 

[Ray Reed]

@AFlaccoSeagulls @DreamKid

For me it comes down to at that point in the draft, i think the CB available is going to be a better player than the pass rusher that’s available.

I’m not big on Ojabo and meh on Karlaftis. I think McDuffie or Stingley at that point are superior players 

[DreamKid]

51 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

I’m not big on Ojabo and meh on Karlaftis. I think McDuffie or Stingley at that point are superior players 

Most big boards have them ranked higher.

[Ray Reed]

21 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Most big boards have them ranked higher.

Yeah I may be in the minority but I’m not a big Ojabo guy and Karlaftis just screams “solid not spectacular” to me and at 14...idk.

McDuffie to me has consistent top 5-15ish corner potential coupled with a really high floor and Stingley is incredibly boom or bust imo but the boom is top 3 CB type potential

[DreamKid]

19 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Yeah I may be in the minority but I’m not a big Ojabo guy and Karlaftis just screams “solid not spectacular” to me and at 14...idk.

McDuffie to me has consistent top 5-15ish corner potential coupled with a really high floor and Stingley is incredibly boom or bust imo but the boom is top 3 CB type potential

No, I meant Stingley and McDuffie are typically rated higher. So I don't think you're in the minority. 

If the team is fine with Stingley's medical there's a big chance he could be the pick imo.

[DreamKid]

A big theme of DeCosta's first round selections thus far has been going for overall talent- regardless of the latest or most pressing question marks/flags surrounding the player. Selecting a player based on the best version of themselves that they've put on tape and believing our club can take them beyond even that point. 

Marquise Brown- Size, Injury       Oklahoma 21 Y/O     NFL Bloodlines

Patrick Queen- Inexperienced     LSU 20 Y/O

Rashod Bateman- Down Year      Minnesota   21 Y/O

Odafe Oweh- 0 Sacks                   Penn State  22 Y/O

 

Derek Stingley- Injury,  Return to 2019 form?    LSU 20 Y/O   NFL Bloodlines

 

Stingley was a blue chip recruit who had one of the greatest ever seasons by a true freshman, in the SEC. And even the last couple years where he struggled with injuries he still flashed that monster ability. It didn't magically disappear or become impossible to find again at 20 Y/O.

According to many analysts Bateman and Oweh were both coming off 'down' years, EDC didn't care. I really think he'll view Stingley the same way. He'll see a 20 Y/O player who put down blue chip play as a teenager in the SEC. Just as he saw Bateman as a phenom receiver and Oweh as a talented rusher with unlimited potential. 

Don't sleep on it. 

[diamondbull424]

19 hours ago, DreamKid said:

A big theme of DeCosta's first round selections thus far has been going for overall talent- regardless of the latest or most pressing question marks/flags surrounding the player. Selecting a player based on the best version of themselves that they've put on tape and believing our club can take them beyond even that point. 

Marquise Brown- Size, Injury       Oklahoma 21 Y/O     NFL Bloodlines

Patrick Queen- Inexperienced     LSU 20 Y/O

Rashod Bateman- Down Year      Minnesota   21 Y/O

Odafe Oweh- 0 Sacks                   Penn State  22 Y/O

 

Derek Stingley- Injury,  Return to 2019 form?    LSU 20 Y/O   NFL Bloodlines

 

Stingley was a blue chip recruit who had one of the greatest ever seasons by a true freshman, in the SEC. And even the last couple years where he struggled with injuries he still flashed that monster ability. It didn't magically disappear or become impossible to find again at 20 Y/O.

According to many analysts Bateman and Oweh were both coming off 'down' years, EDC didn't care. I really think he'll view Stingley the same way. He'll see a 20 Y/O player who put down blue chip play as a teenager in the SEC. Just as he saw Bateman as a phenom receiver and Oweh as a talented rusher with unlimited potential. 

Don't sleep on it. 

Oh, I think if Stingley falls, there’s no doubt in my mind the front office will take him. They already proved that they’re willing to overlook the lisfranc injury with Hollywood and Stingley has had more time to recover than Hollywood had as well.

I didn’t really give much thought or attention to Stingley simply because I didn’t/still don’t think he’ll fall, but if he does, he’s IMO a guaranteed Raven. Easy to sell the fact that he’s very familiar with Jamar Chase and has the overall athleticism (assuming the lisfranc doesn’t rob him of some of that) to battle with Chase and some of the other top WRs in the league. He’d be, in all likelihood, an upgrade over Marlon Humphrey, once Stingley reaches his potential.

 

The other clear organization fit, even though we’re both skeptical, is certainly Jordan Davis. As of late we’ve seemed to take the athletic specimen regardless of if there are some red flags within their file (as you’ve pointed out). Oweh wasn’t considered a pass rusher and we took him with the idea of developing him. Hollywood and Bateman both have the injury/covid impact their final seasons. Davis gained some weight and lost some endurance, as well as isn’t a pass rushing force. But IFFF he could unlock his pass rushing potential, he’d be right there with Stingley as a clear organizational fit.

I hope we get Lamar protection, so I’m certainly hoping we pursue an elite OL talent, but if we ended up with one of the above two players at our selection, I certainly would be at the very least pleased with our 1st round.