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Raiders waive LB Tanner Muse


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1 minute ago, Turnobili said:

I imagine the primary reason deablo made it over muse is because he’s a more recent pick 

And because he was drafted by Gus Bradley and our current LB coach, Muse wasn't. Deablo had a 2nd/3rd round grade on the NFL's official site and was compared to Kyzir White, who Bradley coached/drafted with the Chargers.

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5 minutes ago, RaiderX said:

This team in general has had horrific history with 3rd round picks. Be it drafting or trading them.

I'm pretty sure as a forum we would have more success drafting in the 3rd round. If we only drafted character red flag players who dropped, we would still hit more than the FO.

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8 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I'm pretty sure as a forum we would have more success drafting in the 3rd round. If we only drafted character red flag players who dropped, we would still hit more than the FO.

Not a doubt in my mind.  

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Arden Key/Brandon Parker, Shilique Calhoun, Eddie Vanderdoes, Clive Walford

i mean other than Gabe Jackson we've done a really good job lighting our third round picks on fire. and looking at the years before him, there's Sio Moore, Tony Bergstrom, Demarcus Van Dyke, Joseph Barksdale.

you have to go back to Veldheer in 2010 for the only other time we had a third rounder pan out

no pressure on Bryan Edwards, though

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58 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

Arden Key/Brandon Parker, Shilique Calhoun, Eddie Vanderdoes, Clive Walford

i mean other than Gabe Jackson we've done a really good job lighting our third round picks on fire. and looking at the years before him, there's Sio Moore, Tony Bergstrom, Demarcus Van Dyke, Joseph Barksdale.

you have to go back to Veldheer in 2010 for the only other time we had a third rounder pan out

no pressure on Bryan Edwards, though

I actually think Sio Moore was a good pick, he just never fully recovered from the hip injury.  He has 4.5 and 3.0 sacks in first 2 years plus 50 and 90 tackles.  He definitely lacked control but that very well could have been from poor coaching and a bad roster.  I always thought he had the ability to be a good LB.  that hip injury was his beginning of the end though.

Edited by jimkelly02
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8 hours ago, Turnobili said:

completely disagree. you call someone a bust if they dont live up to their status. they're a reach if they were taken too early given the info available at the time without the benefit of hindsight. even if cle balled out, he was always a reach. we took him way earlier than he deserved and we could have gotten value trading back before taking him

While I think you are right in your semantics and I do agree that a reach is different to a bust, I do believe that we are too quick to follow the opinion of the media and like them, we are not privy to enough information to say that of those picks that were picked only slightly ahead of where they were projected.

Ferrell was obviously a reach, as he was chosen 20 picks before where he was projected and it was fairly evident, even at that point that he was not top 5 worthy. But I think there’s more nuance with other picks.

Was Miller a reach? Like Leatherwood, most pundits called him as much. But then there were in both cases some people who projected them to have higher potential than other players projected to go higher. If you dig deep enough, there were some who saw something that others didn’t and would have picked them high. 

So I would say that while some picks (Ferrell, Muse) are obvious reaches. I think you could argue that others (Miller, Leatherwood) could just simply be be riskier picks that some teams were willing to take a punt on for the reward of potential. 

I would argue that is how Miller is viewed now - rather than a reach and if Leatherwood becomes as good a player as him, especially if the other tackles taken near him don’t do as well, it will be viewed in a similar way. 

Now again, I was not a fan of the Leatherwood pick at the time. But maybe I was wrong? At least I hope so. 😆 

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5 hours ago, Turnobili said:

Lots of guys don’t work out. We didn’t need the benefit of hindsight to rail against the Muse pick at the time. 
 

literally nobody was mad when we took Mack #5 overall. But people were upset when we took Ferrell. We didn’t need to wait for Mack to be an all pro or Cle to fall to 2nd team to form those opinions

To use this to reinforce my point. I 100% agree with this statement. But would you say the same for Miller? Or perhaps more simply - are there any draft picks we should wait for before judging them or are they all good picks or reaches?

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10 hours ago, reddevil said:

While I think you are right in your semantics and I do agree that a reach is different to a bust, I do believe that we are too quick to follow the opinion of the media and like them, we are not privy to enough information to say that of those picks that were picked only slightly ahead of where they were projected.

Ferrell was obviously a reach, as he was chosen 20 picks before where he was projected and it was fairly evident, even at that point that he was not top 5 worthy. But I think there’s more nuance with other picks.

Was Miller a reach? Like Leatherwood, most pundits called him as much. But then there were in both cases some people who projected them to have higher potential than other players projected to go higher. If you dig deep enough, there were some who saw something that others didn’t and would have picked them high. 

So I would say that while some picks (Ferrell, Muse) are obvious reaches. I think you could argue that others (Miller, Leatherwood) could just simply be be riskier picks that some teams were willing to take a punt on for the reward of potential. 

I would argue that is how Miller is viewed now - rather than a reach and if Leatherwood becomes as good a player as him, especially if the other tackles taken near him don’t do as well, it will be viewed in a similar way. 

Now again, I was not a fan of the Leatherwood pick at the time. But maybe I was wrong? At least I hope so. 😆 

i agree that people care a lot less about reaches if they pan out lol. kolton was early but he was still clearly a round 1 player that year. and they got him at 15, not top 5, so it wasnt as egregious. and they did trade back before taking them. though the value they got for the trade back wasnt great, it was still much better than sitting and taking him at 10 or 11 (forgot where our original pick was)

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10 hours ago, reddevil said:

To use this to reinforce my point. I 100% agree with this statement. But would you say the same for Miller? Or perhaps more simply - are there any draft picks we should wait for before judging them or are they all good picks or reaches?

i think theres a gradient, for sure. miller might have been a small reach (we took him at 15 and he had a solid first round grade). ferrell was a big reach. arnette was a big reach. i would say miller at 15 was less of a reach than leatherwood at 17. 

miller had a first round grade most places you look, leatherwood was usually second, sometimes late 1

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6 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Lmaoo. I want to see how Mayock will spin this. That being said Javin white is the future at backer anyways.

We made a mistake last year and one of the best LB's in the league that knows the scheme was available. 

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