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Raiders waive LB Tanner Muse


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36 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

so any time we sign a free agent and release a bust, we can play it off as a successful trade instead of what it was?

at least we are willing to admit the mistake and make moves to improve. 
obvioulsy it was a wasted draft pick. Mayock / Gruden 100% Fd that pick up. 

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Would you rather them keep him on a scholarship and continuously give him a roster spot?
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Previous coaches here (Gruden too an extent), gave some players way to much slack because of their draft position. 
100% it was a terrible draft pick, but its best to just move on. 

If KJ Wright wasnt available maybe we dont move on from him, but he was, and someone needed to be cut for it. So we cut from the bottom of the barrel.

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28 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Not every time. But if we would've cut Lynn Bowden Jr and then immediately sign a player who's a significantly better player who last played for the team that signed our free agent we can. 

Even the best teams miss on draft picks the majority of the time. In our 2019 class we hit on Jacobs, Mullen, Crosby, Renfrow, and Moreau with Abram still having a chance to be a hit if he plays better in Bradley's scheme. 

The jury is still out on our 2020 class especially considering the weird circumstances they dealt with during their first season in the NFL. But Ruggs/Edwards are both starting, Arnette reportedly looks better, and Simpson/Amik both made the team as depth pieces. The Muse/Bowden picks not working out sucks but it is what it is, especially in a year with no combine. 

Time will tell what happens with our 2021 class but Leatherwood, Moehrig, and Hobbs should all be starters as rookies. While Koonce, Deablo, and Gillespie should all be rotational pieces as rookies. 

but the problem is you can have both. this is like saying its ok that we whiffed on Cle because we got a good value in Crosby later. no. we could have gotten a better player in the first AND had Crosby. it's not zero sum. could have signed Wright and drafted somebody other than Muse who would still help the team

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11 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

at least we are willing to admit the mistake and make moves to improve. 
obvioulsy it was a wasted draft pick. Mayock / Gruden 100% Fd that pick up. 

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Would you rather them keep him on a scholarship and continuously give him a roster spot?
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Previous coaches here (Gruden too an extent), gave some players way to much slack because of their draft position. 
100% it was a terrible draft pick, but its best to just move on. 

If KJ Wright wasnt available maybe we dont move on from him, but he was, and someone needed to be cut for it. So we cut from the bottom of the barrel.

i agree its the right move to cut your losses. but the Muse situation is a big L. i dont think it cancels with signing Wright.

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3 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

i agree its the right move to cut your losses. but the Muse situation is a big L. i dont think it cancels with signing Wright.

Yeah fair, obviously I agree it was about as bad as a draft pick can be. 
IMO though it would just be worse and worse the longer we held on to him, instead of someone more deserving. 

Def agree that signing wright doesnt just cancel it out. 
But if we had kept Muse instead of signing Wright, thatd make the draft pick even worse. 

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24 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

but the problem is you can have both. this is like saying its ok that we whiffed on Cle because we got a good value in Crosby later. no. we could have gotten a better player in the first AND had Crosby. it's not zero sum. could have signed Wright and drafted somebody other than Muse who would still help the team

We wasted a third round pick and cut him because we were able to sign one of the best LB's in the league. It sucks we wasted the pick but it is what it is.

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29 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

We wasted a third round pick and cut him because we were able to sign one of the best LB's in the league. It sucks we wasted the pick but it is what it is.

My issue isn't just Muse. It's that we constantly make similarly dumb picks.

It's like Grudock is specially abled or something. 

 

KJ Wright being available was lucky for us. And as someone pointed out, wouldn't it have been great to have someone worth keeping for the future instead of Muse and have needed to cut someone better than him (Richard maybe?) That's a good spot to be in. 

Now that it's confirmed that both Bowden and Muse were badly wasted picks, I'm gonna go back and really dive into the domino effect. Fwiw, I really wanted Dye or Gabriel Davis or Terrell Burgess in the place we took Muse. 

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1 hour ago, Turnobili said:

i agree its the right move to cut your losses. but the Muse situation is a big L. i dont think it cancels with signing Wright.

If anything it makes us look completely stupid for wasting another good draft pick. Especially when mike talks like he’s such a dam draft guru. First draft pick ever for mike was cle @ 4 and he’s in year 3 and a backup. But it’s ok cause we signed Yanni lol such a joke 

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25 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

My issue isn't just Muse. It's that we constantly make similarly dumb picks.

It's like Grudock is specially abled or something. 

The Ferrell pick was definitely a major reach and probably won't ever work out for us. The Abram and Arnette picks are trending that way as well but are TBD. 

When you look at our other mid round picks (round 3-5) is his track record really that terrible? 

2019: Maxx Crosby (starter), Isaiah Johnson (didn't pan out, injury prone), Foster Moreau (solid player), Hunter Renfrow (starter)

2020: Lynn Bowden Jr (lol), Bryan Edwards (starter), Tanner Muse (lol), John Simpson (backup), Amik Robertson (backup)

2021: Malcolm Koonce (backup), Divine Deablo (backup), Tyler Gillespie (backup), Nate Hobbs (potential starter)

Johnson had all the tools he just couldn't stay healthy.

Bowden/Muse were both bad picks but I'll be a little easier on him because it was the covid draft. Simpson/Robertson both made the roster and should play for us, Simpson potentially as a starter and Robertson rotating in at CB. 

Koonce has the tools to be a solid rotational edge rusher, Deablo has the tools to be a solid WIll/Rover, Gillespie will play as a backup, and Hobbs is likely going to be a starter. 

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28 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

If anything it makes us look completely stupid for wasting another good draft pick. Especially when mike talks like he’s such a dam draft guru. First draft pick ever for mike was cle @ 4 and he’s in year 3 and a backup. But it’s ok cause we signed Yanni lol such a joke 

aside from making us stupid for wasting a good pick, we also wasted the good pick.

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1 minute ago, Turnobili said:

aside from making us stupid for wasting a good pick, we also wasted the good pick.

Then mike hops on tv talking to the fans like we’re stupid for not being happy with the picks. 

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2 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

aside from making us stupid for wasting a good pick, we also wasted the good pick.

IIRC we were linked to Antonio Gibson a lot during the pre-draft process who was a WR in college that projected to be a RB in the NFL. He ended up being selected 66th. We could've traded 80 (Bowden) and 91 (traded) for 65 and landed him. 

We also could've realistically traded 19, 80, 81 to move up into the top 15 for AJ Terrell, lol.

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1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

The Ferrell pick was definitely a major reach and probably won't ever work out for us. The Abram and Arnette picks are trending that way as well but are TBD. 

When you look at our other mid round picks (round 3-5) is his track record really that terrible? 

2019: Maxx Crosby (starter), Isaiah Johnson (didn't pan out, injury prone), Foster Moreau (solid player), Hunter Renfrow (starter)

2020: Lynn Bowden Jr (lol), Bryan Edwards (starter), Tanner Muse (lol), John Simpson (backup), Amik Robertson (backup)

2021: Malcolm Koonce (backup), Divine Deablo (backup), Tyler Gillespie (backup), Nate Hobbs (potential starter)

Johnson had all the tools he just couldn't stay healthy.

Bowden/Muse were both bad picks but I'll be a little easier on him because it was the covid draft. Simpson/Robertson both made the roster and should play for us, Simpson potentially as a starter and Robertson rotating in at CB. 

Koonce has the tools to be a solid rotational edge rusher, Deablo has the tools to be a solid WIll/Rover, Gillespie will play as a backup, and Hobbs is likely going to be a starter. 

Looking at rounds 3-5 only

2019:

We got lucky Crosby panned out.

Johnson cracks bones more easily than cracking the sideline. Dude never played, and "tools" is like saying "athleticism".

Moreau, as much as I like him, is honestly too TBD at the present time. He couldn't beat out ol'man Wiitten for snaps last year, so we're only going by his rookie year. Plenty of rooks look solid. Joseph Fauria looked like a star in the making after his rookie season only to fall into oblivion soon thereafter. Potential is what's here. 

Renfrow was a solid pick for sure. Limited, but for where we got him, plenty good enough. 

2019 was the besr year of the 3, but let's not forget how bad round 1 was lol. Crosby and Renfrow are staples, the rest could have easily been or are now off the team. With our depth at DE, Crosby probably benefited just as much in actually getting play time. Ditto for Refrow. Not to take anything away from either, but the chance either at play time that early on other teams would've been limited. I love them, but they're not stars (yet). 

In these rounds of 2019, I had no complaints. I was spent after round 1 lol. 

 

In 2020, it was significantly worse:

The Bowden pick was INCREDIBLY stupid. A WR turned Emergency QB converted to RB? Seriously? With Zack Moss still on the board if RB was going to be the pick 100%? I could go on for weeks. 

Edwards was a lucky fall. Zero complaints. We needed real WRs. I wanted to triple-dip with 2 in the 1st and had my eye on Gabriel Davis pre-draft. Figured Edwards was a gonner by mid 2nd. 

Muse......lol. What more can be said. 

Simpson, I keep seeing talked up along with OG being a big need soon. Is he good or not? Just a guy? Solomon Kindley, two picks later made 13 starts. We might draft an OG early. We made a point at keeping Incognito and Good. So?

Amik was a poor preseason or bigger signing from being off the team. Hardly entrenched. Our CBs, really, aren't particularly good. Who did he have to beat out to stick? 

The middle rounds of 2020 were 2 astounding failures, a WR who is enticing but hasn't proven anything, a reserve OG and a roster bubble CB. Simpson and Amik could easily be gone next year and Edwards still has a lot to prove. I'm not so worried about 5th rounders, but 3rds? 

Muse and Bowden could've been Moss and Dye, Moss and Burgess, Moss and Blackmon, Dantzler, Holmes, Lawrence, Fotu, trade up, trade back, anything would've gotten us more than those two did. Sometimes, it's about what you miss out on ya know? 

2021:

I HATED this class. We took deep reserves when we had starting spots that needed bodies. 

Koonce is deep down the chart, and pur CBs are still suspect. Molden would've been nice to have right about now....

Deablo is almost a Muse situation other than being a better athlete. I'm lukewarm on him, but that's it. Fine enough pick I guess, but I was told the same about Muse by the Grudockians. 

Gillespie....S depth was needed. Idk. 

Hobbs has been a pleasant surprise. I really liked Lenoir or whatever. I compared who we got vs who I would've taken back on draft day. 

 

We've drafted plenty of bodies, but how many are guys we see potential starters in? How many are JAGs? How many are likely to be gone im a year or two? No, nobody hits every pick, but we seem to miss A LOT on guys at positions of immediate need be it through gross reaches or drafting pet projects when starting caliber talemt is still available. 

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49 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

2019:

We got lucky Crosby panned out.

Johnson cracks bones more easily than cracking the sideline. Dude never played, and "tools" is like saying "athleticism".

Moreau, as much as I like him, is honestly too TBD at the present time. He couldn't beat out ol'man Wiitten for snaps last year, so we're only going by his rookie year. Plenty of rooks look solid. Joseph Fauria looked like a star in the making after his rookie season only to fall into oblivion soon thereafter. Potential is what's here. 

Renfrow was a solid pick for sure. Limited, but for where we got him, plenty good enough. 

2019 was the besr year of the 3, but let's not forget how bad round 1 was lol. Crosby and Renfrow are staples, the rest could have easily been or are now off the team. With our depth at DE, Crosby probably benefited just as much in actually getting play time. Ditto for Refrow. Not to take anything away from either, but the chance either at play time that early on other teams would've been limited. I love them, but they're not stars (yet). 

In these rounds of 2019, I had no complaints. I was spent after round 1 lol. 

So when we hit on picks it's lucky and when we miss it's because Mayock is terrible, gotcha. 

Johnson was a WR/CB convert that started two years at Houston, he was a 6'2" corner with 33" arms and elite testing numbers. We took a chance on his upside and it didn't work out, just like we did with Crosby. 

Moreau not playing a ton last year had more to do with the fact that he tore his ACL late in his rookie season then him not being better than Witten. 

Renfrow has been our most consistent WR during his first two years, he likely won't ever be a star but he's a solid slot WR that we drafted in the 5th round, lol. 

Through Crosby's first 2 seasons he has more sacks than any other player drafted in his class. 

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58 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

In 2020, it was significantly worse:

The Bowden pick was INCREDIBLY stupid. A WR turned Emergency QB converted to RB? Seriously? With Zack Moss still on the board if RB was going to be the pick 100%? I could go on for weeks. 

Edwards was a lucky fall. Zero complaints. We needed real WRs. I wanted to triple-dip with 2 in the 1st and had my eye on Gabriel Davis pre-draft. Figured Edwards was a gonner by mid 2nd. 

Muse......lol. What more can be said. 

Simpson, I keep seeing talked up along with OG being a big need soon. Is he good or not? Just a guy? Solomon Kindley, two picks later made 13 starts. We might draft an OG early. We made a point at keeping Incognito and Good. So?

Amik was a poor preseason or bigger signing from being off the team. Hardly entrenched. Our CBs, really, aren't particularly good. Who did he have to beat out to stick? 

2021:

I HATED this class. We took deep reserves when we had starting spots that needed bodies. 

Koonce is deep down the chart, and pur CBs are still suspect. Molden would've been nice to have right about now....

Deablo is almost a Muse situation other than being a better athlete. I'm lukewarm on him, but that's it. Fine enough pick I guess, but I was told the same about Muse by the Grudockians. 

Gillespie....S depth was needed. Idk. 

Hobbs has been a pleasant surprise. I really liked Lenoir or whatever. I compared who we got vs who I would've taken back on draft day. 

I agree on the Bowden/Muse picks being bad. Simpson will likely be starting for us this season and Cable praised him during the off-season. Keeping one of the best OG's in the league and one of the most versatile OL in the league means that Simpson isn't good?

Our entire defense struggled last year, let's wait and see what Amik does this year. 

We haven't even seen Koonce play yet and you can always use more pass rushers. Elijah Molden is currently 3rd string on the Titans. 

Deablo and Muse aren't similar at all, imo. Muse was a workout warrior that played at a meh level on stacked defenses in college. Deablo's skill-set translates better and he was taken because Bradley and Richard Smith saw him playing LB at the Senior Bowl and were intrigued. They had success with Kyzir White and Bradley has also had success with LB/SS drafted later like Kam Chancellor, Bobby Wagner, and KJ Wright. 

Safety depth was definitely needed, Abram is a wild card and we lost Jeff Heath/Erik Harris (lol). 

Hobbs is starting at SCB for us and Molden is buried on the Titans depth chart. 

 

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4 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

at least we are willing to admit the mistake and make moves to improve. 
obvioulsy it was a wasted draft pick. Mayock / Gruden 100% Fd that pick up. 

-
Would you rather them keep him on a scholarship and continuously give him a roster spot?
-
Previous coaches here (Gruden too an extent), gave some players way to much slack because of their draft position. 
100% it was a terrible draft pick, but its best to just move on. 

If KJ Wright wasnt available maybe we dont move on from him, but he was, and someone needed to be cut for it. So we cut from the bottom of the barrel.

this is a great point. Scholarship players have been tied to this team for wayyy to long. We brought in players that were better(Perryman, Wright) and another developmental LB in Deablo that shows more upside. 

We do need to stop blowing picks at a high rate though, i just can respect that Mayock isnt just saving face by sticking to guys he drafted longer than he needs to. 

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