2021 Around the League Thread

[Madmike90]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:18 PM, dll2000 said:

Belichick and Patriots are so well coached.

Night and day from Bears.  They are fundamentally sound.  They build something from offseason through season.  They have a defense and offensive system that is adjustable week to week within their system.  They understand what it takes to produce a team.   

I would argue their team is less talented than Bears as a whole or equal because Belichick makes a lot of bad draft picks.

But you can't argue with his coaching ability and how he gets most out of his coaches as well.   When they have talent they win.   Cleveland is stacked with high end athletes and talent and they are falling apart because they do like Bears do.  They flail about without over arching goals and development hoping for their superstars to take over games.  

Mac Jones is not a better football player than Fields.   He is good, but he would be failing for Jets or Bears right now and the know it alls would be saying I told you he was a low ceiling bust.   He is better coached.   

Go back and read the SF threads.  They wanted no part of Jones.  He was a laughing stock.  They wanted Fields.  SF media did as well.  

I know so many Belichick ACs have failed an McDaniels failed in Denver, but I would totally take a chance a Josh McDaniels to run my program and pick his own GM to work with.

I say that with cavaet that I would want to do background on him and talk to himself.   I am making a lot of assumptions based on circumstance.

I want what they do there done here, but with better drafting overall.

 

 

The thing that separates the Pats and any other team is they have the perfect combination or consistency and adaptability...it's so difficult to replicate and that is why so many of their coordinators have failed...people talk about the Pats system but truthfully their is no Pats system...Tony Dungy sums it up perfectly when he says every year the first month of the season BB is trying to figure out what they do well and what they don't do well then they pivot to what they have...look at them over the years...we have seen run heavy attacks...we have seen short passing underneath to smaller quicker receivers...we have seen two TE sets...we have seen a deep passing attack to the likes of Randy Moss...and don't think it is just the offence either...on D we have seen them play 2-gap with huge LBs...we have seen 3-4 & 4-3 alignments...even now we are seeing them play with a 3 man front...2 edge players...1 ILB...2 CBs & 3 Safeties as a base alignment...

New England don't care about league trends...they evaluate the 53 players they have on their roster in that season and they build all phases of the game to those strengths and hide the weaknesses...to not be afraid to walk away from a "scheme" that worked the previous year with different players is their biggest strength...

I'm not a fan of McDaniel as a man rather than as a coach where I think he is excellent...bring in Daboll tho and I would be ecstatic...bring Patricia/Mayo with him and I would be even more so.

[Madmike90]

Watching that ATL offensive line last night reminded me of ours...small, soft & weak...where as Fields at least stands a chance a 36 year old Matt Ryan does not...

Also cool to see NE going through yet another offensive focus shift...rookie QB? No problem...they get the massive Trent Brown back...Shaq Mason is on of the best run blocking OL in football...they have a proper FB...draft a near 250lbs RB and go back to the early 00s of smashmouth football to take advantage of smaller faster defences built to stop the pass...checkers & chess my friends. 

[abstract_thought]

12 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

The thing that separates the Pats and any other team is they have the perfect combination or consistency and adaptability...it's so difficult to replicate and that is why so many of their coordinators have failed...people talk about the Pats system but truthfully their is no Pats system...Tony Dungy sums it up perfectly when he says every year the first month of the season BB is trying to figure out what they do well and what they don't do well then they pivot to what they have...look at them over the years...we have seen run heavy attacks...we have seen short passing underneath to smaller quicker receivers...we have seen two TE sets...we have seen a deep passing attack to the likes of Randy Moss...and don't think it is just the offence either...on D we have seen them play 2-gap with huge LBs...we have seen 3-4 & 4-3 alignments...even now we are seeing them play with a 3 man front...2 edge players...1 ILB...2 CBs & 3 Safeties as a base alignment...

New England don't care about league trends...they evaluate the 53 players they have on their roster in that season and they build all phases of the game to those strengths and hide the weaknesses...to not be afraid to walk away from a "scheme" that worked the previous year with different players is their biggest strength...

I'm not a fan of McDaniel as a man rather than as a coach where I think he is excellent...bring in Daboll tho and I would be ecstatic...bring Patricia/Mayo with him and I would be even more so.

Which is also why they tend to start slowly and pick up steam as the season goes on.

A lot of people say the Bears have no identity. Pats, meanwhile, figure out their identity each season.

[dll2000]

8 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Watching that ATL offensive line last night reminded me of ours...small, soft & weak...where as Fields at least stands a chance a 36 year old Matt Ryan does not...

Also cool to see NE going through yet another offensive focus shift...rookie QB? No problem...they get the massive Trent Brown back...Shaq Mason is on of the best run blocking OL in football...they have a proper FB...draft a near 250lbs RB and go back to the early 00s of smashmouth football to take advantage of smaller faster defences built to stop the pass...checkers & chess my friends. 

O line matters.

Ryan looks like garbage with a bad o line.   Even Rodgers did last year when his O line played bad against Tampa Bay in first game.

Brady has looked like garbage.  Manning has when O line played bad.   Mahomes looked bad in Super Bowl.   It matters.   

 

[dll2000]

5 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Which is also why they tend to start slowly and pick up steam as the season goes on.

A lot of people say the Bears have no identity. Pats, meanwhile, figure out their identity each season.

Bobby Knight teams used to be same way without the adjusting identity part.   They would just build and get better thoughout.

It is a common trait of well coached teams.

 

 

[dll2000]

17 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

The thing that separates the Pats and any other team is they have the perfect combination or consistency and adaptability...it's so difficult to replicate and that is why so many of their coordinators have failed...people talk about the Pats system but truthfully their is no Pats system...Tony Dungy sums it up perfectly when he says every year the first month of the season BB is trying to figure out what they do well and what they don't do well then they pivot to what they have...look at them over the years...we have seen run heavy attacks...we have seen short passing underneath to smaller quicker receivers...we have seen two TE sets...we have seen a deep passing attack to the likes of Randy Moss...and don't think it is just the offence either...on D we have seen them play 2-gap with huge LBs...we have seen 3-4 & 4-3 alignments...even now we are seeing them play with a 3 man front...2 edge players...1 ILB...2 CBs & 3 Safeties as a base alignment...

New England don't care about league trends...they evaluate the 53 players they have on their roster in that season and they build all phases of the game to those strengths and hide the weaknesses...to not be afraid to walk away from a "scheme" that worked the previous year with different players is their biggest strength...

I'm not a fan of McDaniel as a man rather than as a coach where I think he is excellent...bring in Daboll tho and I would be ecstatic...bring Patricia/Mayo with him and I would be even more so.

Agreed for most part.

It is hard to replicate it is why coordinators fail.  You can't walk into a place and change everything to way Patriots do it and that is basically what it takes.

Also, most of coordinators don't have the breadth of knowledge it takes to recognize what you have and how to utilize it best.   You needed Bill there to point the way and lead.   You can't pull from your decades mental data base the way Joe Gibbs did this or Nebraska did that or solved this problem or whatever.   Bill can.          

Bill has his famous philosophy that he will use what a guy does well and minimize what he does bad.   A lot of people say, yeah me too, but in reality they just shove the pegs whatever their shape into the holes of their scheme and whatever happens, happens.   On Bears you have Byrd and Mooney lead blocking or even trap blocking because that is way play is drawn.  Ridiculous.  

Take all these hybrid guys over years.   Most fail because no one can figure out how to use them.  The idea is good, the execution is lacking.   They need someone else to show them the way.   Now you are seeing the big line backer type safeties get used more in 3 safety sets, but before a D coordinator or two showed how to best use a 3 safety D the big safeties busted out of league time and again because they lacked elite coverage skills.  

From what people say McDaniel has gained a similar breadth of knowledge at Bill's knee.   He probably wasn't ready for Denver, but that was many years ago now.  

McDaniel isn't coming to Bears.   But I would make an offer were I in charge.

 

 

 

 

[Sugashane]

44 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Agreed for most part.

It is hard to replicate it is why coordinators fail.  You can't walk into a place and change everything to way Patriots do it and that is basically what it takes.

Also, most of coordinators don't have the breadth of knowledge it takes to recognize what you have and how to utilize it best.   You needed Bill there to point the way and lead.   You can't pull from your decades mental data base the way Joe Gibbs did this or Nebraska did that or solved this problem or whatever.   Bill can.          

Bill has his famous philosophy that he will use what a guy does well and minimize what he does bad.   A lot of people say, yeah me too, but in reality they just shove the pegs whatever their shape into the holes of their scheme and whatever happens, happens.   On Bears you have Byrd and Mooney lead blocking or even trap blocking because that is way play is drawn.  Ridiculous.  

Take all these hybrid guys over years.   Most fail because no one can figure out how to use them.  The idea is good, the execution is lacking.   They need someone else to show them the way.   Now you are seeing the big line backer type safeties get used more in 3 safety sets, but before a D coordinator or two showed how to best use a 3 safety D the big safeties busted out of league time and again because they lacked elite coverage skills.  

From what people say McDaniel has gained a similar breadth of knowledge at Bill's knee.   He probably wasn't ready for Denver, but that was many years ago now.  

McDaniel isn't coming to Bears.   But I would make an offer were I in charge.

 

 

 

 

This is a well written post.

I remember the very first game with Nagy as a HC and how disappointing the playcalling was vs GB. Gabriel had a 31 yard catch, but had 4 more catches that resulted in a -6 yard net. They repeatedly tried to throw screens to him despite him having no wiggle and going down at the slightest contact. After failure 1 and 2, he still forced a 3 and 4!!

Nagy has never changed. You mention Bryd and Mooney lead blocking, but that is just because they're the current names. Gabriel did numerous times, Cohen has. It's madness to assume these guys are blocking anyone effectively on the outside. You could have done better putting Glennon, Daniel, or even POD out there blocking than those mini-men. I'm not bashing them for the sake of bashing them, but there is a reason teams haven't used huge OTs as hail mary receivers - it doesn't play to their physical gifts! Technically the OTs may have more height and arm length, these guys are fast but that just means they'll get blasted and their blocks shed earlier. So the OT reference may actually be a better option comparatively.

McDaniels thought HE was the one who was going to bring DEN back to their glory days. He wanted to trade for his former QB Cassell and mold the team according to his own liking. He had a damn talented QB already, a far more talented one than he ever had outside of Brady. That makes me think (no proof, just head cannon) that he took a bit too much credit for Brady's development and thought he could replicate it. That the system was a bit TOO much the reason for Brady's success. His fall from grace had to be humbling, because he went from DEN to STL with dreadful talent and saw that place fall apart. This is why I think he should have grown. He had his explosive success, had a massive failure when he had too much power, had failure that he couldn't fix due to talent and time deficiencies, and then got to go back and see how NE was ran with more experienced eyes. He may never be a good HC, I don't know. But he brings more than anyone we have had since Lovie, and to a side of the ball that is harder to improve and keep consistently good. We've seen Brady, Cassell, Jimmy G, Brissett and now Jones all play well under him. He adjusted his game to give Newton a chance. They guy is smart and can adapt, but he may very well be an abrasive dbag. IDGAF about being the alter boys of the NFL, I want to actually see sustained success for the Bears. I've never seen that in my 30+ years. Seen great defenses, seen a few years the offense was good to great, but we've always been the "good enough" team in our best years. When we lost to IND in the Super Bowl it was like watching most games we have against good teams, we were less talented in players and outcoached at least on one side of the ball.

[soulman]

10 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Watching that ATL offensive line last night reminded me of ours...small, soft & weak...

Soft and weak?  Maybe.  But small?  No

We've been through this before Mike.  The Bears OL average 327lbs per man.  That's not small.

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, soulman said:

Soft and weak?  Maybe.  But small?  No

We've been through this before Mike.  The Bears OL average 327lbs per man.  That's not small.

Allegedly...talk to me when they play at that size. 

[soulman]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

McDaniel isn't coming to Bears.   But I would make an offer were I in charge.

I agreed with your post up 'til this point.

Josh McDaniel isn't a fit for the Bears HC position and never will be.  Hiring him would be a mistake.

[soulman]

Just now, Madmike90 said:

Allegedly...talk to me when they play at that size. 

Oh for crap sake.  Stop whining about size then and if you don't believe their weights fly into Chicago and weigh them yourself.  You remind me of an old woman harping on the same phuc'n thing in every post you make.

This OL was never built around being people mashers to begin with.  It's like asking Justin Fields why he can't throw left handed.  Get a decent HC in here with a workable scheme and if the OL is still an issue THEN you can come back and say "I told you so".

[Madmike90]

14 minutes ago, soulman said:

Oh for crap sake.  Stop whining about size then and if you don't believe their weights fly into Chicago and weigh them yourself.  You remind me of an old woman harping on the same phuc'n thing in every post you make.

This OL was never built around being people mashers to begin with.  It's like asking Justin Fields why he can't throw left handed.  Get a decent HC in here with a workable scheme and if the OL is still an issue THEN you can come back and say "I told you so".

You might want to take a deep breath and calm down there my friend hahaha...

You brought it back up...not me...I believe the weights on the roster page of a website aren't what I am seeing in front of me on a field...you think differently...okay then...what can't be argued is these guys don't play up to "their size" so I would prefer us to move on to some guys who actually use their supposedly 30-40lbs weight advantage to play with strength and power and actually hold up at the POA when pass blocking...simple as that...

We won't agree on it...no need to give yourself a complex over it hahaha.

[Sugashane]

3 hours ago, soulman said:

I agreed with your post up 'til this point.

Josh McDaniel isn't a fit for the Bears HC position and never will be.  Hiring him would be a mistake.

The typical fit has been a failure since post-Ditka. I want a change. Lol. 

[topwop1]

6 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Agreed for most part.

It is hard to replicate it is why coordinators fail.  You can't walk into a place and change everything to way Patriots do it and that is basically what it takes.

Also, most of coordinators don't have the breadth of knowledge it takes to recognize what you have and how to utilize it best.   You needed Bill there to point the way and lead.   You can't pull from your decades mental data base the way Joe Gibbs did this or Nebraska did that or solved this problem or whatever.   Bill can.          

Bill has his famous philosophy that he will use what a guy does well and minimize what he does bad.   A lot of people say, yeah me too, but in reality they just shove the pegs whatever their shape into the holes of their scheme and whatever happens, happens.   On Bears you have Byrd and Mooney lead blocking or even trap blocking because that is way play is drawn.  Ridiculous.  

Take all these hybrid guys over years.   Most fail because no one can figure out how to use them.  The idea is good, the execution is lacking.   They need someone else to show them the way.   Now you are seeing the big line backer type safeties get used more in 3 safety sets, but before a D coordinator or two showed how to best use a 3 safety D the big safeties busted out of league time and again because they lacked elite coverage skills.  

From what people say McDaniel has gained a similar breadth of knowledge at Bill's knee.   He probably wasn't ready for Denver, but that was many years ago now.  

McDaniel isn't coming to Bears.   But I would make an offer were I in charge.

People forget McDaniels interviewed for Bears job almost 4 years ago before they gave it to Nagy so for him to accept an interview in the first place means that he must have been somewhat interested.

Also his brother coached with Bears as an offensive assistant under Fox's staff the year before Nagy arrived so he may have a good word or two to say to Josh about accepting the HC job here if ever offered.

I don't think we should rule it out completely as Belichick doesn't look like he's retiring any time soon, so if McDaniels is ever going to take another HC job then it'll probably have to be outside of NE unless he's content with just being an OC for the remainder of his coaching career.

I used to very much dislike the idea of McDaniels as HC but one would have to think he's matured and learned from his first failed stint as a HC in Denver and seeing what he's doing with Mac Jones and an offense that has solid but not overly spectacular talent, it's quite impressive.

Remember that Bill Belichick also failed in his first stint as a HC for the Browns before finding success with NE so for people to use the Broncos experience as a negative is not necessarily true.

The only thing I worry about with McDaniels is maybe that he just isn't a personable/likeable guy but then again we have Nagy who's the opposite and it hasn't really brought us much success.

[topwop1]

4 hours ago, soulman said:

I agreed with your post up 'til this point.

Josh McDaniel isn't a fit for the Bears HC position and never will be.  Hiring him would be a mistake.

Just curious as to why you think this and who they would be able to hire instead that wouldn't be a mistake?

The fact of the matter is that they've made mistake after mistake in hiring coaches over the past 30 years save for Lovie Smith so maybe taking a different approach with this next hire, whenever that may happen, might actually do them some good?

I'm just at the point where I think they need to hire the best candidate and not necessarily the best interviewer or guy who just follows the company model of being a nice and respectable guy and who promotes that rah rah motivational and club dub BS to make the players like him 

If you hire a very qualified coach but he rubs some ppl the wrong way then so be it. The goal is to win and this is a big boy business. No time for games