2021 Around the League Thread

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

The typical fit has been a failure since post-Ditka. I want a change. Lol. 

That's what I just replied also. Bears have gotten it wrong so many times before so maybe by hiring the guy that people think isn't a good fit may actually end up being the best fit?

Being a contrarian against overwhelmingly popular public opinion often produces positive results.

[abstract_thought]

12 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

That's what I just replied also. Bears have gotten it wrong so many times before so maybe by hiring the guy that people think isn't a good fit may actually end up being the best fit?

Being a contrarian against overwhelmingly popular public opinion often produces positive results.

I don’t think contrarianism is a virtue on its own, but there’s certainly value in casting a wide net.

Maybe less popular choices are just more memorable when they succeed. Or maybe their positive qualities are overlooked by people who don’t consider them seriously enough.

[Sugashane]

49 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

That's what I just replied also. Bears have gotten it wrong so many times before so maybe by hiring the guy that people think isn't a good fit may actually end up being the best fit?

Being a contrarian against overwhelmingly popular public opinion often produces positive results.

To me I simply want to swing big. Idgaf about 3-14 or 7-10 records. Both are losing seasons so they get no difference in opinion toe. If you're not challenging in the postseason then you're wasting your time.

I'd rather pick in the top 3 than be another team's walk off competition. We have played (and coached) like absolute trash in our last few postseason appearances (offensively), I'd rather have the chance at explosive and dynamic talents than be in football purgatory. 

Continuity is only worth a damn if you're winning. I'd rather cycle GMs and HCs every 3 years until I see serious progress than stick with a loser like Nagy. That doesn't mean a team has to be in total flux, you don't have top switch from a ground and pound to a Mike Leach system and back and forth. There can easily be overlap, especially if you are getting dynamic talents to build around. 

At this point we know Pace is far better than Emery but Nagy has shown little to prove he is better than Trestman or Fox. There isn't enough reason to keep either from an objective standpoint IMO. Chicago will always make a ton of money for the McCaskeys regardless of record. Hopefully we can stick around for more than  what happened 35 years ago. 

[soulman]

4 hours ago, topwop1 said:

Just curious as to why you think this and who they would be able to hire instead that wouldn't be a mistake?

The fact of the matter is that they've made mistake after mistake in hiring coaches over the past 30 years save for Lovie Smith so maybe taking a different approach with this next hire, whenever that may happen, might actually do them some good?

I'm just at the point where I think they need to hire the best candidate and not necessarily the best interviewer or guy who just follows the company model of being a nice and respectable guy and who promotes that rah rah motivational and club dub BS to make the players like him 

If you hire a very qualified coach but he rubs some ppl the wrong way then so be it. The goal is to win and this is a big boy business. No time for games 

I experienced first hand how Josh McDaniel approached his job as HC in Denver.  I read a whole lot of people say, "oh but he's older and more mature now"......LMAO.

Yeah, mature enough to tell Indy to phuc off after he'd agreed to join them once Bob Kraft promised him the provisional key's to his NFL kingdom after Belicheat retired.

McDaniel will want ultimate control of his roster and the hiring of his staff.  You'll see massive roster turn over happen very quickly or as quickly as dead cap permits.

I can't see any way McDaniels and Ryan Pace could share this team without clashing and I'm not even certain how in love McDaniels would be with Justin Fields as his QB.

To paraphrase Obi Won Kenobi; "This not the droid we're looking for".

[soulman]

6 hours ago, Sugashane said:

The typical fit has been a failure since post-Ditka. I want a change. Lol. 

And you would get it.  More than you may like too.

McDaniels is another HC I would not want developing Justin Fields.

There are at least a dozen or more better choices than Josh McDaniels.

[soulman]

9 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

You might want to take a deep breath and calm down there my friend hahaha...

You brought it back up...not me...I believe the weights on the roster page of a website aren't what I am seeing in front of me on a field...you think differently...okay then...what can't be argued is these guys don't play up to "their size" so I would prefer us to move on to some guys who actually use their supposedly 30-40lbs weight advantage to play with strength and power and actually hold up at the POA when pass blocking...simple as that...

We won't agree on it...no need to give yourself a complex over it hahaha.

You're right.  This is now a dead issue.  We see this differently and will continue to so I'm done beating this dead horse with you.  Think whatever you like and I'll do the same.

[soulman]

11 hours ago, topwop1 said:

People forget McDaniels interviewed for Bears job almost 4 years ago before they gave it to Nagy so for him to accept an interview in the first place means that he must have been somewhat interested.

Also his brother coached with Bears as an offensive assistant under Fox's staff the year before Nagy arrived so he may have a good word or two to say to Josh about accepting the HC job here if ever offered.

I don't think we should rule it out completely as Belichick doesn't look like he's retiring any time soon, so if McDaniels is ever going to take another HC job then it'll probably have to be outside of NE unless he's content with just being an OC for the remainder of his coaching career.

I used to very much dislike the idea of McDaniels as HC but one would have to think he's matured and learned from his first failed stint as a HC in Denver and seeing what he's doing with Mac Jones and an offense that has solid but not overly spectacular talent, it's quite impressive.

Remember that Bill Belichick also failed in his first stint as a HC for the Browns before finding success with NE so for people to use the Broncos experience as a negative is not necessarily true.

The only thing I worry about with McDaniels is maybe that he just isn't a personable/likeable guy but then again we have Nagy who's the opposite and it hasn't really brought us much success.

They will hire whoever they choose but I will never be a Josh McDaniel fan even if he does become Bears HC.  I'll just lay that out there now so if it happens my position is clear.

[Sugashane]

7 hours ago, soulman said:

And you would get it.  More than you may like too.

McDaniels is another HC I would not want developing Justin Fields.

There are at least a dozen or more better choices than Josh McDaniels.

Better in what regard? At developing Fields or as an actual HC?

In no way do I believe there are 12 better minds for QB development than McDaniels. But as the overall administrator for team activities? Possibly. 

What the Bears have been colossal failures is drafting QBs with priority picks and developing them. We have the pick in and need to develop him, so that would be a level of consistency for success we haven't had in my lifetime. 

That being said if McDaniels wants full control then screw him. Lol

[dll2000]

17 hours ago, topwop1 said:

People forget McDaniels interviewed for Bears job almost 4 years ago before they gave it to Nagy so for him to accept an interview in the first place means that he must have been somewhat interested.

Also his brother coached with Bears as an offensive assistant under Fox's staff the year before Nagy arrived so he may have a good word or two to say to Josh about accepting the HC job here if ever offered.

I don't think we should rule it out completely as Belichick doesn't look like he's retiring any time soon, so if McDaniels is ever going to take another HC job then it'll probably have to be outside of NE unless he's content with just being an OC for the remainder of his coaching career.

I used to very much dislike the idea of McDaniels as HC but one would have to think he's matured and learned from his first failed stint as a HC in Denver and seeing what he's doing with Mac Jones and an offense that has solid but not overly spectacular talent, it's quite impressive.

Remember that Bill Belichick also failed in his first stint as a HC for the Browns before finding success with NE so for people to use the Broncos experience as a negative is not necessarily true.

The only thing I worry about with McDaniels is maybe that he just isn't a personable/likeable guy but then again we have Nagy who's the opposite and it hasn't really brought us much success.

Here here.  

I will add that If Belichick didn’t win he would be hated universally.  He is neither personal nor likable.

Lombardi was a Richard.  

Nagy is and was likable, now people don’t think so.  Fox used to be considered very likable.

I think you can be a good person and be a good coach.  Tom Landry was a good man.  But you do have to be ruthless.   You have to cut a guy you love when he is no longer useful.  You have to bench the same if some UDFA is outplaying him.   It isn’t easy to do those things when you build relationships with people.   

I think people forget that in football you intimately spend many hours a day with people about 6 days a week for months on end.

When people win everything they say sounds pretty good and wise, when they lose same word are nails on a chalkboard.

 

[Madmike90]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Here here.  

I will add that If Belichick didn’t win he would be hated universally.  He is neither personal nor likable.

Lombardi was a Richard.  

Nagy is and was likable, now people don’t think so.  Fox used to be considered very likable.

I think you can be a good person and be a good coach.  Tom Landry was a good man.  But you do have to be ruthless.   You have to cut a guy you love when he is no longer useful.  You have to bench the same if some UDFA is outplaying him.   It isn’t easy to do those things when you build relationships with people.   

I think people forget that in football you intimately spend many hours a day with people about 6 days a week for months on end.

When people win everything they say sounds pretty good and wise, when they lose same word are nails on a chalkboard.

 

I think it depends on what BB we are talking about...public media BB? or BB to his players? They are two very different people...

McDaniel seems like he is the same with everyone.

[abstract_thought]

1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

I think it depends on what BB we are talking about...public media BB? or BB to his players? They are two very different people...

McDaniel seems like he is the same with everyone.

I'm not so sure about that... Brady seems to love the guy and still calls him his brother. Mac Jones now loves the guy too.

The most prominent players McDaniels fought with are Cutler and Marshall... Both went on to clash with other coaches and players across multiple organizations.

IMO that Denver team was a toxic situation for McDaniels. When he took over for Shanahan and went in such a strong direction, it rubbed the existing players the wrong way and led to half the team revolting. It's hard to follow one strong personality with another. But I don't think things would go that way in every NFL city. The Bears, for example, have a coach nobody respects. The players might respond to a guy like McDaniels.

[Sugashane]

11 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

I'm not so sure about that... Brady seems to love the guy and still calls him his brother. Mac Jones now loves the guy too.

The most prominent players McDaniels fought with are Cutler and Marshall... Both went on to clash with other coaches and players across multiple organizations.

IMO that Denver team was a toxic situation for McDaniels. When he took over for Shanahan and went in such a strong direction, it rubbed the existing players the wrong way and led to half the team revolting. It's hard to follow one strong personality with another. But I don't think things would go that way in every NFL city. The Bears, for example, have a coach nobody respects. The players might respond to a guy like McDaniels.

This has some nuggets I like.

While I think he could have maximized Cutler and Marshall's talents, the mix of their hubris and his young headstrong personality was a bad mix. If 2021 McDaniels would have a chance to go back, I bet he'd play peacekeeper a lot more than judge, jury, and executioner. It was a bad deal for him since he initiated the feud, but I wouldn't imagine he'd be eager to make the same mistake so easily.

Shanahan won Super Bowls, had a winning postseason record, and 20 plus years NFL experience so he knew how to own the locker room, whereas in NE Bill has the iron fist. I have seen him snap at Brady and take his chewing right back. I have no issue with that, because if you can stand toe to toe with the GOAT then you're showing spine in spades that we haven't had in years. Nagy getting fired won't cause any issues in the locker room, keeping him would IMO.

All in all, if Fields progresses to a franchise level star then the next HC is a football god in Chicago, royalty that is reserved for about anyone not named Michael Jordan. You get the QB right and half the battle to being a regular contender is over. You can piece together a lot of the rest with just average drafting and FAs IMO. If you do really well you're challenging for the Super Bowl. But without a real playmaker at QB your chances of sustained success are just too limited today.

[Madmike90]

1 hour ago, abstract_thought said:

I'm not so sure about that... Brady seems to love the guy and still calls him his brother. Mac Jones now loves the guy too.

The most prominent players McDaniels fought with are Cutler and Marshall... Both went on to clash with other coaches and players across multiple organizations.

IMO that Denver team was a toxic situation for McDaniels. When he took over for Shanahan and went in such a strong direction, it rubbed the existing players the wrong way and led to half the team revolting. It's hard to follow one strong personality with another. But I don't think things would go that way in every NFL city. The Bears, for example, have a coach nobody respects. The players might respond to a guy like McDaniels.

I think there was a little more to the Broncos situation than that...that said who will ever really know? I think McDaniel is obviously an excellent offensive coach...I just question his ability to handle the pressure of controlling a whole team and his ego/attitude clearly was an issue in Denver...would I be mad if we hired him? Probably to begin with as I feel there are better candidates out there but as with any hire we make long term I would be 100% behind him because all I want is success here.

[JAF-N72EX]

McDaniels is like the modern day Wade Phillips on offense. A very good experienced coordinator but not fit to be a HC.

Besides I don't want anything to do with any coach from the Belichick tree. Belly has maintained the same coaching philosophy, standard, and structure for 25 years which makes it easier for long time coaches under him like McDaniels to adjust and adapt to his style. But just because something works in NE doesn't mean it'll work anywhere else and Groh, Saben, Mangini, Patricia, O'Brian, Flores, Judge, Crennel and McDaniels all found this out the hard way.

All 9 have tried in the last 30 years and all of them have failed to the tune of a combined record of 186-259-1, only 5 playoff appearances with a 2-5 record (4 apps' were BOB in the weakest division in football), only 4 division titles (all 4 were BOB) and zero conference/SB apps' or titles.

Even coaches under Belichick who move on to other teams with a similar title don't often have the same success and/or outright fail. (Patrick Graham, Chad Oshea)

As we've seen over the years, not all good assistants make a good head coach. Most are best suited to stick with what they're good at and often fail when they step outside of their limits (Fangio is the latest example). The sooner they realize this.....the better off they are in the end. The smart ones like Wade learn quickly how to stay in his lane and go on to have a long solid career.

 

[soulman]

11 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Better in what regard? At developing Fields or as an actual HC?

In no way do I believe there are 12 better minds for QB development than McDaniels. But as the overall administrator for team activities? Possibly. 

What the Bears have been colossal failures is drafting QBs with priority picks and developing them. We have the pick in and need to develop him, so that would be a level of consistency for success we haven't had in my lifetime. 

That being said if McDaniels wants full control then screw him. Lol

Well for one thing McDaniels has never worked with a QB like Fields before.  He's also the guy who traded back into round one in order to draft Tim Tebow.  Need I go on?

Go ahead.  Hire him.  In less than four years you'll know why it was another bad idea.  I'll still be here waiting to remind you all of it too.