Lions CB Jeff Okudah ruptures Achilles

[Karnage84]

20 hours ago, SimbaWho said:

A lot of people had a problem with him at 3. You just sided with the brain-trust Lions had and believed in people who didn't know what they're doing. Okudah was only selected cause Diggs/Slay were traded who were some of our better players...

I actually wanted Simmons to pair with Kennard but they cut Kennard, and signed Collins.

Broken clock is right twice a day. 

More so then not believing in Okudah I didn't think he had a shot with that staff or living up to the 3rd overall. I actually thought he might be a starting CB but to pick a CB 3rd overall... they need to be Deon Sander, Patrick Peterson, Jalen Ramsey. He just wasn't that guy to me. I wasn't sure he'd be better than Slay which was a problem being selected at 3.

I called him a one year wonder then Slim dropped some PFF stats and highlighted even more how good Ohio State defense was vs basically every other team they played. Wideouts often weren't NFL quality with maybe the top pass rush/front seven in all of college football. No one wanted to notice who he played against, or how the other CB's on his own team compared to him numbers wise. If you just looked hard there anyone could of seen that all Ohio State Db's had really good/ borderline elite PFF numbers.

 

Matt Patricia and Bob Quinn aren't here for a reason. They couldn't get it done and their approach was clearly not the right one. I wanted to see the Lions have success in the short and long-term, avoid a full on rebuild (yet again) and give the regime at the time the ability to make the moves they felt were necessary in order to do that. This was with the understanding that 2020 was their last chance to prove they were on the right path. 

Slay wanted out. He was no longer going to be a part of the regime's plans. It is what it is. They had a need at CB and took someone who was viewed highly in draft circles. The Dolphins weren't taking the bait for a trade up and Okudah likely would have been gone if they traded down past the Jags at #9. They took 'their guy' at a position of need. He was probably overdrafted at #3 but that only backfires when things don't work out. The Lions had Matthew Stafford for another run and were trying to add the pieces around him to move things to the next level and build towards the future. If they failed, they were going to be fired. They failed to turn the corner, were fired and we're now back in rebuilding mode. 

Herbert would have been the best pick for us (in hindsight) but it might not have been for Herbert. It's a really difficult thing to be a rookie QB and then have a new regime come in. There's usually a transition process, coaches bringing in 'their guys', new schemes, etc. Without immediate success, the new staff is likely looking to find their QB. The Justin Herbert that we know is likely not the same guy if he's on the Lions. Stafford is going to be the every week starter, leaving Herbert on the bench. He's going to be a question mark. It's a toxic environment to bring a young guy in and it doesn't always address the bigger issues of the team. 

You could be right and Okudah could become a complete bust (or far away from being worth the #3 overall pick). However, we can't ignore or forget the context on which a decision was made (regardless of whether we agreed/disagreed with it at the time, whether we were right or wrong, whether it was the right or wrong decision, etc.). 

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

Matt Patricia and Bob Quinn aren't here for a reason. They couldn't get it done and their approach was clearly not the right one. I wanted to see the Lions have success in the short and long-term, avoid a full on rebuild (yet again) and give the regime at the time the ability to make the moves they felt were necessary in order to do that. This was with the understanding that 2020 was their last chance to prove they were on the right path. 

Slay wanted out. He was no longer going to be a part of the regime's plans. It is what it is. They had a need at CB and took someone who was viewed highly in draft circles. The Dolphins weren't taking the bait for a trade up and Okudah likely would have been gone if they traded down past the Jags at #9. They took 'their guy' at a position of need. He was probably overdrafted at #3 but that only backfires when things don't work out. The Lions had Matthew Stafford for another run and were trying to add the pieces around him to move things to the next level and build towards the future. If they failed, they were going to be fired. They failed to turn the corner, were fired and we're now back in rebuilding mode. 

Herbert would have been the best pick for us (in hindsight) but it might not have been for Herbert. It's a really difficult thing to be a rookie QB and then have a new regime come in. There's usually a transition process, coaches bringing in 'their guys', new schemes, etc. Without immediate success, the new staff is likely looking to find their QB. The Justin Herbert that we know is likely not the same guy if he's on the Lions. Stafford is going to be the every week starter, leaving Herbert on the bench. He's going to be a question mark. It's a toxic environment to bring a young guy in and it doesn't always address the bigger issues of the team. 

You could be right and Okudah could become a complete bust (or far away from being worth the #3 overall pick). However, we can't ignore or forget the context on which a decision was made (regardless of whether we agreed/disagreed with it at the time, whether we were right or wrong, whether it was the right or wrong decision, etc.). 

There is zero chance Herbert would have been the pick at 3.  It was between Okudah, Tua, Derrick Brown, Simmons, and Andrew Thomas.  In Hindsight, Brown would have been the best pick of that bunch with Simmons a close second.  But I dont think there was any talk of Herbert that high and most thought he was a reach at the time.   

[SimbaWho]

27 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

There is zero chance Herbert would have been the pick at 3.  It was between Okudah, Tua, Derrick Brown, Simmons, and Andrew Thomas.  In Hindsight, Brown would have been the best pick of that bunch with Simmons a close second.  But I dont think there was any talk of Herbert that high and most thought he was a reach at the time.   

Yeah, and like he said sure in hindsight he would of been the best pick at three but man, no way I would of done that personally. Simmons was my guy cause I was looking to add a pass rusher and still be solid in coverage playing well with Kennard. The guy I actually wanted the least(Brown) was the best too. 

[Karnage84]

28 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

There is zero chance Herbert would have been the pick at 3.  It was between Okudah, Tua, Derrick Brown, Simmons, and Andrew Thomas.  In Hindsight, Brown would have been the best pick of that bunch with Simmons a close second.  But I dont think there was any talk of Herbert that high and most thought he was a reach at the time.   

If I recall correctly, it was really between Brown and Okudah. Patricia wanted DB while Quinn wanted Okudah. 

In hindsight, Herbert would have been the better option, followed by Brown and then Simmons IMO.

Okduah was getting a ton of hype as the consensus CB1 in draft circles. His NFL.com draft profile - score of 7.15 (between Pro Bowl Talent and Perennial All Pro).

The next guy drafted, CJ Henderson was rated 6.72 (Year 1 Starter). 

Between bad scheme/coaching, no off-season and back-to-back years with injuries, Okudah could wind up being a huge bust. Some of it his fault, some of it not. It was extremely difficult for that to be accurately predicted without being an outlier. 

[LionArkie]

I was wanting Kinlaw, but on paper Okudah was hard to pass on.  If it were up to me, I'd of taken Kinlaw. But it wasn't, and we still suck...so there's that.

[diehardlionfan]

1 hour ago, Karnage84 said:

If I recall correctly, it was really between Brown and Okudah. Patricia wanted DB while Quinn wanted Okudah. 

In hindsight, Herbert would have been the better option, followed by Brown and then Simmons IMO.

Okduah was getting a ton of hype as the consensus CB1 in draft circles. His NFL.com draft profile - score of 7.15 (between Pro Bowl Talent and Perennial All Pro).

The next guy drafted, CJ Henderson was rated 6.72 (Year 1 Starter). 

Between bad scheme/coaching, no off-season and back-to-back years with injuries, Okudah could wind up being a huge bust. Some of it his fault, some of it not. It was extremely difficult for that to be accurately predicted without being an outlier. 

I think Patricia destroyed some of the Lions players. There was a list of talented guys that got away from him. Some like Okudah didn’t get the coaching he needed.

I feel badly for Okudah. So much promise, drafted into a terrible situation in Detroit, the pandemic now this injury. 

[Nnivolcm]

1 hour ago, diehardlionfan said:

I think Patricia destroyed some of the Lions players. There was a list of talented guys that got away from him. Some like Okudah didn’t get the coaching he needed.

I feel badly for Okudah. So much promise, drafted into a terrible situation in Detroit, the pandemic now this injury. 

I can't help but wonder what better situation Okudah and the Lions would be in if Quintricia had been fired a year earlier when it was still quite clear they weren't going to turn it around. 

[diehardlionfan]

22 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

I can't help but wonder what better situation Okudah and the Lions would be in if Quintricia had been fired a year earlier when it was still quite clear they weren't going to turn it around. 

It’s interesting speculation.

[DaWg_LB.]

Hotep Lions fans,

Humble Browns fan here, just wanted to ask and get a gauge on what would you guys trade Jeff Okudah for?

Thanks for any input offered.

[Sllim Pickens]

44 minutes ago, DaWg_LB. said:

Hotep Lions fans,

Humble Browns fan here, just wanted to ask and get a gauge on what would you guys trade Jeff Okudah for?

Thanks for any input offered.

I honestly don't want to trade him right now but if we were offered a 2nd or 3rd even for him, i would consider it given how hard it is to come back from this injury.  I am guessing nobody would pay that much given his play and the injury but anything less than that IMO is getting about equivalent to what he would be when he comes back. I think a move to S would do him good at this point so that would be the plan unless given a good offer. 

[LionArkie]

A third and your worst WR.

[Karnage84]

Somewhat Okudah related.

Just playing around on The Draft Network's mock draft tool. Lions have the #4 overall spot. Derek Stingley (#2 overall ranked prospect) is available. We have seen Okudah not play to his draft spot and the Jaguars just traded away CJ Henderson.

How willing would you be on pulling the trigger on ANOTHER top CB in the top 5?

[Sllim Pickens]

8 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Somewhat Okudah related.

Just playing around on The Draft Network's mock draft tool. Lions have the #4 overall spot. Derek Stingley (#2 overall ranked prospect) is available. We have seen Okudah not play to his draft spot and the Jaguars just traded away CJ Henderson.

How willing would you be on pulling the trigger on ANOTHER top CB in the top 5?

It depends somewhat on Okudah's recovery and who else is available.  I am ok drafting Stingley but would want to move down to 6 or 7 and add some additional picks.  At 4, I am guessing Thibodeux, Harrison, or Hutchinson would be available and I would prefer each of them over Stingley.  I might even consider one of the D lineman again unless we see some growth from Levi/Alim. 

[Karnage84]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

It depends somewhat on Okudah's recovery and who else is available.  I am ok drafting Stingley but would want to move down to 6 or 7 and add some additional picks.  At 4, I am guessing Thibodeux, Harrison, or Hutchinson would be available and I would prefer each of them over Stingley.  I might even consider one of the D lineman again unless we see some growth from Levi/Alim. 

In the mock machine,

1) NYJ - Thibodeaux

2) JAC - Evan Neal, OT

3) HOU - Aidan Hutchinson

 

[LionArkie]

Malik Willis...
...just kidding.

ugghhh...if he's best player available then so be it. I just hate corner that high. I felt the same way about Okudah.  I also like Adam Anderson, but that might also be a little high for him. I'd really like to get that front 7 on defense going. In the end, you can't go wrong with BPA. If you think it's Stingley then so be it.

I really have a man crush on Aidan Hutchinson and it would be Detroit's luck that the player I want goes 1 pick before the Lions selection. See - Chase Young, Julius Peppers, Steve Hutchinson, on and on.

Edited September 29, 2021 by LionArkie