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This Says It All, No More BS.....


soulman

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25 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

Maybe we should take a break from debating whether starting or sitting is better for a rookie QB, and argue about changing schemes after a rookie year?  Lots of people think having 2 schemes did Trubisky no favors, and obviously it's best to have a good offense that the QB can stay in for years, but how much does it hurt to switch it up?  If Fields is good I don't think it's going to matter much, just might take more time into year 2.  Could definitely see a worst case scenario in which Nagy is fired after 2022 and then we finally get a new offense working right as we have to give Fields an extension.

 

Also if we're making bets I think Fields starts against the Lions.

I don't think changing schemes helps any QB but if you are going to do it do it early...Fields has shown that not only can he adapt to a scheme change but the guy changed from one major college program to another with easy...he is made for this...Nagy's scheme is so basic and behind the times it is scary at this point...I watched some of the all 22 on NFL network this morning and his first passing play of the season was an all curls for 3 receivers and 1 TE 5 yards down the field against a group of defenders who didn't take a preseason snap...no creativity...no options...no change of creating momentum...

The quicker we get Fields into a more "vertical WCO" scheme the better we will be.

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3 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

I think there are a lot of plus and negatives to Nagy that can be debated all day long but it all comes back to one question at the end of the day...

Do I trust Matt Nagy to develop and use Justin Fields to the best of his abilities?

For me the answer is a resounding no at this point and that alone is enough to make a change at the end of the season IMO.

I'm with you.  My belief is that even if Fields showed a very natural ability for doing things a certain way, much like Aaron Rodgers can, that Nagy would still want it done "his way".  Then all we have is another rinse and repeat of what took place over time with Mitch.

I keep coming back to the same conclusion with Nagy.  For whatever reason or reasons he's far too insecure in himself and his ideas to think outside the box he puts all of that in.  It's almost as if his own limitations as a former QB come into the thinking that creates this.

Beyond this there is also a concern about what Pace's role in all of this is.  Did he select Nagy as his HC because he wanted a carbon copy of what KC has been doing?  Given "the plan" for Fields it sure seems like it.  Or is there an even deeper reasoning going on here?

One piece I read suggests that by holding Fields back they're keeping him in reserve to rescue a failing season later in the year.  Then they can use this to show the kind of progress Teddy Bears and GMcC said would be needed in order for them to avoid any changes.

Pace has said his idea of progress is to get to the playoffs and win yet both he and Nagy seem far too content to allow Dalton to continue running an anemic offense for now and risk losing early so they can appear to have rescued the season in the end and make the playoffs.

I'm not into conspiracy theories at all but I am into human nature.  This makes some sense if they can come out of the first 8 games at 4-4 then with Fields and a far less predictable offense the team surges in the final 9 games goes 6-3 and we end up at 10-7 or better.

It's somewhat of a repeat of 2018 when opponents had not caught onto Nagy and his schemes yet and it was much harder to initially predict what Mitch was capable of based on his 2017 game tapes under Fox and Loggains where he was being restrained as much as he was.

The thinking behind all of this is that they're crafting a way to save their jobs and both get extensions by offering the late season momentum as their reasoning for deserving it.  Given GMcC's aversion to going through a hiring process again it just may work if they can pull it off.

Edited by soulman
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4 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

If Nagy were to be fired mid season, who takes over as interim head coach? Pretty much has to be Lazor right?  Can't be Desai.  Would be hilarious if Defillippo ended up taking over and being good, but I wouldn't bet on it.  Remember when we were all debating him and Nagy? Starting to look like we were all wrong.

What do you all think of Castillo? I could see him and maybe Furrey sticking around.  I know the OL isn't great but the results he got out of a suspect group last year mid season were kinda impressive.

I really have no idea who would take over which is just another reason why it's unlikely to happen in addition to the fact that the Bears have never fired a HC midseason under McCaskey ownership.  The whole idea of doing it would present complexities neither Phillips or GMcC are likely to want to face plus I believe Pace would also balk at doing it.

As much as anything he and Nagy are now joined at the hip.  If they are in "collaboration" as GMcC described it how do you fire one collaborator without also firing the other?  If Nagy was fired midseason I would take that as a sign of Pace's failures having caught up with him and he would also be replaced once the season finishes.

I believe Teddy Bears and GMcC would have a very difficult time selling Bears fans on allowing Pace to hire a third HC when the first two have failed to meet expectations.

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3 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

Maybe we should take a break from debating whether starting or sitting is better for a rookie QB, and argue about changing schemes after a rookie year?  Lots of people think having 2 schemes did Trubisky no favors, and obviously it's best to have a good offense that the QB can stay in for years, but how much does it hurt to switch it up?  If Fields is good I don't think it's going to matter much, just might take more time into year 2.  Could definitely see a worst case scenario in which Nagy is fired after 2022 and then we finally get a new offense working right as we have to give Fields an extension.

 

Also if we're making bets I think Fields starts against the Lions.

My only comment on this is that Fields is not the difference maker here, Nagy is.

Fields is just too talented not to succeed.  The real question should be just how successful can he be in an offense schemed by Matt Nagy with Matt Nagy also in charge of calling plays both of which he's shown very marginal aptitude for doing?

IMHO if Justin Fields doesn't succeed in a very big way it will not be because of his lack of talent or being properly developed.  He's already shown that he's more than capable of playing in the NFL now.  It will be because he's being confined by an offense run by a very mediocre HC.

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48 minutes ago, soulman said:

One piece I read suggests that by holding Fields back they're keeping him in reserve to rescue a failing season later in the year.  Then they can use this to show the kind of progress Teddy Bears and GMcC said would be needed in order for them to avoid any changes.

This is pretty much so exactly where I come out...I feel they will use Dalton as a scapegoat after a few weeks...Fields will come in and look good then Pace & Nagy will claim more is to come next season...hopefully George doesn't fall for it...even if I expect he will.

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10 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

This is pretty much so exactly where I come out...I feel they will use Dalton as a scapegoat after a few weeks...Fields will come in and look good then Pace & Nagy will claim more is to come next season...hopefully George doesn't fall for it...even if I expect he will.

If there is any way to manipulate their situation to help themselves I think we can pretty much figure they will.  Both are on the hot seat now and they know it.

Drafting Fields can't save Pace's *** now after the Jenkins debacle unless somehow all of those guys who got big contracts with big guarantees start playing up to their potential; Quinn, EJax, DT, Graham, and somehow Desai can field a competent secondary.

With an offense that looks like it will continue to struggle putting 3 scores on the board under Dalton the defense can ill afford another disaster like the LA game.  If that continues that's gonna be on Pace as well for leaving the secondary weakened and possibly for agreeing to promote Desai.

I don't buy into this "well it was his very first game calling defensive signals" crap.  All that says to me is that both the players and the coaches were ill prepared for that game and this has been a problem 4 years running.

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29 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

This is pretty much so exactly where I come out...I feel they will use Dalton as a scapegoat after a few weeks...Fields will come in and look good then Pace & Nagy will claim more is to come next season...hopefully George doesn't fall for it...even if I expect he will.

FWIW here's the article that poses that question.  https://beargoggleson.com/2021/09/14/benching-justin-fields-ensuring-matt-nagys/

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There's a very legitimate chance Nagy and Pace lose the locker room....

You had the wr interview (Goodwin, if memory serves) kind of questioning the gamelan in LA. Then today you had the offensive coordinator basically admitting that Fields is ready, and making it sound like only Nagy is preventing Fields from playing in his press conference.. Like he didn't explicitly throw Nagy under the bus, but it genuinely felt like a guy who may be jockeying for "interim head coach" by putting some distance between himself and Nagy. 

Edited by Epyon
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1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

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There is a level of genius in Nagy's approach...

Pretty much.  Nagy's stated goal is always to "fix" something and "get better" as a HC but he's never actually quantified it because no one has ever forced him to.  Even Phillips and GMcC gave both Nagy and Pace a soft ride by saying we want progress without defining what that meant other than "we'll all know when we see it". 

Damn, I wish throughout my career I'd have had bosses and clients as generous as that.

Paul, what can we expect from your division in the way of sales numbers for this coming year.  "Well sir, we're looking for some progress for sure but rather than give you a solid number lemme just say we'll know we've achieved our goal when we see it".

Paul, if I agree to have you run my portfolio can you give me an idea of what kind of risk vs return I can expect.  "Well sir, I can't give you an exact number or guaranteed an exact return but whatever I can manage to do I will do and I'm sure you'll be happy when you see it".

If I could have sold that bull**** all of my life maybe I could have been POTUS too.  🤣

 

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Just finished watching the Seahawks vs. Colts which IMO was a matchup of two really close teams and man we are so far behind offensively it's scary...both these teams have a real purpose and identity on offence...we really need to do far more than run curl routes 5 years down the field. 

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