Changes

[15412]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

I don’t think you understand how elite that defense was at taking the ball away and also scoring.

How many defenses can you recall that have had not one, not two, but three TDs in one postseason?

Packers FORCED at least three interceptions in that Super Bowl and also had a fumble recovery. Rodgers wouldn’t have been able to beat Cutler’s backup in Chicago if it wasn’t for all the turnovers we forced in that game, plus an INT return for a TD by a 340 pound lineman.

He would be a footnote, yes.

How many people still call Dan Marino the best QB of all time? 

Marino was one of the best regular season QB's of all time, with enough chances he might be considered to be more.

Agree 100% with your post.  Ol Rodg has been a great regular season QB overall, mediocre or worse post season.  An example is indeed that last Bucs game where he had 3 TD's sitting there waiting to be made and he failed.  3 TD's made for great post season QB's and I don't need to name them.

[craig]

I wonder if the defense isn't somewhat a function of MLF's philosophy and influences.  One of his influences is Shanahan, who recently was quoted as loving to face "junk" defenses, because he can scheme them.  Another influence is the Rams world.  It's been a few years, so who knows.  But their defense from which Barry graduated is also a low-blitz, low-gadget containment scheme.  Jerry Gray was hired by MLF, and he's a cushion, prevent-the-big-play guy as well, no?  

Seems like there are a lot of MLF influences that support the bend-but-don't-break, prevent-the-big-play perspective (even if that necessarily entails allowing cushion on one or both boundary, and also perhaps allowing the short passes and some underneath stuff over the middle.)? 

But yeah, it may be that when MLF interviewed and hired, it may be that Pettine's contain-oriented defense was NOT an anti-MLF approach at all?  That Barry's contain-oriented defense is the approach MLF believes is best?  And that Gray's contain-orientation is also in step with all of them?  

[MacReady]

I would just love for the single simplest part in every team’s gameplay to be present in our offense.

Jamaal Williams had 8 receptions for the Lions last week. I always told everyone Williams was a darn fine receiving option that was largely ignored by Rodgers.

We all saw the same exact thing on Sunday.

I brought attention to it in the GDT, then the Twitter people pounced on it, too.

Aaron Jones open for an easy third down conversion. Instead? Rodgers holds onto the ball looking for more, gives the man covering Jones time to catch up to Jones enough to make a play before the first down, and it’s an early punt.

The time Rodgers gives defenses to catch up to open receivers is inexcusable.

There is literally no excuse.

None whatsoever.

If Jordan Love throws three times the amount of interceptions Rodgers does, but takes less sacks and takes the first open receiver in LaFleur’s offense, this team is better offensively as well as defensively.

Aaron Rodgers might complain about how his defenses have been, but he hasn’t helped them.

It is far better to have sustained drives with interceptions than it is to have consistent and early three and outs against good defenses.

The entire makeup of this team is better without Rodgers.

Aaron has zero fire whatsoever. That stuff rubs off on the entire team.

I can think of maybe 5 games in Favre’s entire career where the whole team came out as flat as Sunday. I can think of ten of them in the past 2 years with Rodgers.

It is 100% a cultural problem in Green Bay, and when you look at Rodgers and how he refuses to buy in, how he has a frequently flippant and mellow, sardonic response to everything, you can start to see the starting point of the problem.

[cannondale]

15 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

I don’t think you understand how elite that defense was at taking the ball away and also scoring.

How many defenses can you recall that have had not one, not two, but three TDs in one postseason?

Packers FORCED at least three interceptions in that Super Bowl and also had a fumble recovery. Rodgers wouldn’t have been able to beat Cutler’s backup in Chicago if it wasn’t for all the turnovers we forced in that game, plus an INT return for a TD by a 340 pound lineman.

He would be a footnote, yes.

How many people still call Dan Marino the best QB of all time? 

What's your frickin point ? Top 10 defenses make plays and have good players on them ? No sh*t Sherlock. The '96 team had Reggie White, the Top rated defense and still needed Desmond Howard. Ever hear of the Steel Curtain ? The Doomsday defense ?  Wait - I'll try it your way. Bart Starr was the worst QB in NFL history and an even worse leader and human being because he needed a Top 10 defense and 10 Hall of Famers to win Super Bowls. Did I do it right ? Yeah. I'm sure you're on to something. Be sure to let me know when Jordan Love is about to win all these Super Bowls without a Top 10 defense to help him out, because I don't want to miss it.

Regarding Dan Marino - widely regarded as the best pure passer in history and by far the quickest release. First QB to pass for 5,000 yards. Clayton and Duper. Beat the undefeated '85 Bears on Monday Night.  I can still picture the coolest facemask ever for a QB that he wore at Pitt. And shoulder pads that belonged on a linebacker.  Why didn't he win Super Bowls ? I know you won't believe anything I say so check out the first link I found via google. Spoiler alert, #1 reason is lack of defense. 

https://phinphanatic.com/2019/06/11/didnt-miami-dolphins-win-dan-marino/

Edited September 18, 2021 by cannondale

[Norm]

38 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Why didn't he win Super Bowls

Ray Finkle

[ReadyToThump]

46 minutes ago, Norm said:

Ray Finkle

It's Einhorn

[Norm]

2 minutes ago, ReadyToThump said:

It's Einhorn

FINKLE IS EINHOORN

[MacReady]

You know what's going to happen?

Rodgers is going to lose it all and the Packers are going to tank on the season, Rodgers will retire, and Gute will forever be remembered as the man who refused to trade Aaron Rodgers for what would have been two first round draft picks plus at least one really good player.

This has been the single worst handling of anything in the entire time I've watched the Packers play.

It's embarrassing.

Gute literally took the principle of buy low, sell high and flipped it.

You can literally only get one game better than reigning MVP.

He blew it so poorly it might set the Packers back a full decade.

We've got Bakhtiari, Jenkins. That's it. That's it for the offense, those are likely the only two five year carryovers. The offense needs a serious injection of talent if Aaron was to leave. So... How do you do that? With draft capital.

Because there is a three year window with Love. You might get Jones, Dillon, Tonyan, MVS might even still break out, but you're losing Davante after this year, too.

So the offense isn't perfect. Draft yourself a RT and you've got your new franchise QB protected at least.

But the defense needs a complete rebuild, too.

Kris Barnes is likely JAG.
Adrian Amos is a soft leader, just like Rodgers, who says a lot of, "We can't let one game beat us," coach speak.
Z. Smith is contributing to this flat, uninspired play, too. He's a fake leader.
Preston Smith is gone.
Kevin King is terrible.
Devondre Campbell is nobody.

Kenny Clark is as quiet as a church mouse and has no dog in him. He's not a focal point, but at 25 years old I suppose he's a great compliment to a DL with a little bit of an attitude.
Darnell Savage has all the physical talent in the world in the wrong defensive mentality. You don't play soft, bend but don't break coverages with a safety as physically talented as Savage. Any idiot who thinks otherwise shouldn't be coaching.
Stokes might be somebody.

Basically you are building your defense around Jaire Alexander and Rashan Gary. Elite corner, potentially elite EDGE, you couldn't ask for better building blocks. If you had a scheme worth building around.

But you don't.

And this all falls back on LaFleur.

Sorry, but if your head coach fires a bend but don't break defensive coordinator who is soft and gets blown out by any marginally competent QB only to hire a bend but don't break defensive coordinator who is soft and gets blown out by any marginally competent QB, your defensive identity problem is not player talent, not DC, but your head coach.

Just because Aaron Rodgers struggles against teams who get pressure with four DL and keep two safeties back does not mean that you can get pressure with four DL nor that other teams will struggle against this type of defense.

Aaron Rodgers is a vain little man who is more concerned with air yards and looking good in highlight plays than doing what literally the entire NFL has evolved into.

And you're all starting to see that I have been right about Aaron Rodgers for the past four years.

He's crap.
He's been crap ever since his 2010 defense validated his inflated ego.
He will always be crap.

He does not care about anyone else and has ALWAYS displayed classic narcissistic personality and cares literally only about himself.

 

[Old Guy]

@Outpost31 I hope you feel better after that rant, which by the way, I agree with the vast majority of it. 

Rodgers ego will not allow him to suck entirely this season. I also think he wants to keep playing, albeit his heart clearly does not seem to be in it after week 1. Perhaps we are all overreacting to week 1. We lose to the Lions, all bets are off for sure.

Defensively I think there is a little more there than meets the eye. I think you missed Gary who appears ready to break out. History tells us our DC is trash and that was validated after a week 1 blow out. 

For some perspective, let's see what happens in week 2 and moving forward. Just some thoughts if things do become as desperate as you think they will.

Before the trade deadline you could move Davante Adams for at least one very high draft pick from a team that loses one or more receivers. It will happen, it always does. They would have leverage over him for an additional 2 years with franchise tags. So you could still get value in your rebuild scenario. 

Jenkins is going to be the RT next year so we can continue to build the offensive line in the middle rounds.

If Rodgers plays 2018-19 Rodgers this year he's still a top 10 QB in the league and Stafford value should still be able to be had. 

Most importantly, relax! It's football not life. Enjoy the games but take them for what they are, a game played by millionaires who go home on Sunday evening extremely well off win or lose. They are over it come Monday so why aren't we as fans? 

FYI, I too thought we should have gotten rid of Rodgers a long time ago. I can't say it was 2-3-4 years ago for sure, but saw a repeat of Favre happening with his ego. 

You should post more, I enjoy reading your perspective. 

 

[VonKarman]

Tl;dr

[vegas492]

Someone called Aaron Rodgers a "frontrunner".  I cannot remember who.  But dang I wanted to argue with that statement.  But after thinking about it, there's a lot of truth to that statement.

I had a lot of time in the truck recently, listened to enough Sirius XM football talk.  While the phrase "frontrunner" didn't come up, but it was widely assumed that Rodgers made a business decision in the Saints game that they weren't going to win, so he wasn't going to take unnecessary hits.  And many said he's done that his entire career.

I can't argue with that either.

He's got tonight to shut everyone up.  And he can do it.  This is the guy that was mauled and injured at the hands of the Bares, and led an epic comeback when really he could have cashed in those chips and quit.  It is in him to rally, lead and win.  It is just unfortunate that it is not a "regular" thing that he does.

[Les Punting]

10 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Someone called Aaron Rodgers a "frontrunner".  I cannot remember who.  But dang I wanted to argue with that statement.  But after thinking about it, there's a lot of truth to that statement.

I had a lot of time in the truck recently, listened to enough Sirius XM football talk.  While the phrase "frontrunner" didn't come up, but it was widely assumed that Rodgers made a business decision in the Saints game that they weren't going to win, so he wasn't going to take unnecessary hits.  And many said he's done that his entire career.

I can't argue with that either.

 

You watched the game. Which plays did Rodgers give up on in order to avoid unnecessary hits? Who were the open receivers he passed on in his alleged act(s) of self-preservation? If you can't definitively answer those questions, then maybe it is something you should argue with.

[Sasquatch]

45 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Someone called Aaron Rodgers a "frontrunner".  I cannot remember who.  But dang I wanted to argue with that statement.  But after thinking about it, there's a lot of truth to that statement.

I had a lot of time in the truck recently, listened to enough Sirius XM football talk.  While the phrase "frontrunner" didn't come up, but it was widely assumed that Rodgers made a business decision in the Saints game that they weren't going to win, so he wasn't going to take unnecessary hits.  And many said he's done that his entire career.

I can't argue with that either.

He's got tonight to shut everyone up.  And he can do it.  This is the guy that was mauled and injured at the hands of the Bares, and led an epic comeback when really he could have cashed in those chips and quit.  It is in him to rally, lead and win.  It is just unfortunate that it is not a "regular" thing that he does.

I have a slightly different take.  I think he got caught off-guard and unprepared, and I don't think he made a business decision that they weren't going to win the game until the moment he was pulled from the game in favor of Love.  He looked slow and lost out there and he was justifiably pulled.  And I'm not totally convinced he'll have all the rust knocked off tonight.  He missed a lot of time preparing for the upcoming season contemplating his life choices.  He looked far from ready for the season to begin and I'm not holding my breath tonight.  I'm more curious to see what the defense does tonight, tbh.

[ayt]

On 9/15/2021 at 11:41 PM, incognito_man said:

not when expectations are SB or bust this year from the FO

short leashes this season, just watch

How many teams have fired their defensive coordinator in season and gone to the SB? Hell, how often do teams that even make the playoffs fire a DC in season?

[incognito_man]

5 minutes ago, ayt said:

How many teams have fired their defensive coordinator in season and gone to the SB? Hell, how often do teams that even make the playoffs fire a DC in season?

no less frequently than teams with a really bad defense make it.