2021 Week Two GDT Steelers vs Da Raiders!

[bigben07MVP]

We need an O-Line revamp similar to what the Chiefs had this past offseason. We have the cap space to do it. Keep Dotson, Green, and maybe Banner depending on how he plays this year and replace every other starter.  

[bigben07MVP]

@43M you mentioned the WRs being overrated I actually agree and I think it’s a big problem. We have three “B” receivers are we are desperately lacking  an “A” receiver. JuJu can’t consistently beat man coverage on the outside, DJ shows tons of flashes but isn’t nearly consistent enough to be a #1. I keep waiting for him to put it all together and he dominant but there’s too many mental errors/drops/injuries with him. Claypool has turned into a one trick pony. I wish they will give him more opportunities to be an alpha type guy but this season Ben just throws him 50/50 jump balls. I wouldn’t feel great giving any of these guys #1 receiver money as it stands today.

[warfelg]

4 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Claypool has turned into a one trick pony. I

Because for a while we’ve used his type that way. It’s not Chases fault. It’s the gameplan.

also Ben hasn’t taken one shot more than 10 yards down field in the middle since pre-elbow surgery. Huge issue. 

[Dcash4]

2 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

There was no attempt in his answer to throw anyone under the bus. He spent the entire press conference repeating that he needs to play better

Im the Pope. 

(I am not the Pope)

You do get that’s the easiest out he can give, right? He doesn’t HAVE to mean it. If you think he is genuine every time he says it, god bless ya. Just listen to the damn tone of his presser. He doesn’t want to be there or to answer any questions so “I need to play better” 1) makes him look good and 2) ends the question. He even got asked to give a little more detail on what he needs to do better and he balked and went with “well, I’ll have to look back on it”. It’s his stock answer. 

I know your a Big Ben burner account, but please recognize the issue that continually carries over. Ever seen a Matt Canada offense? This isn’t it. 

Ben told us he was so frustrated with his play, he will probably practice so hard this week to correct it. But not on Wednesday. Oh never a Wednesday! Probably Thursday. 

But I’m sure that’s a Tomlin issue too. 39 year old 18 year bet ben wouldn’t have any say in that.  

2 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

What I find fascinating is how the people so willing to always give Tomlin the benefit of the doubt on his piss poor decision making are the first ones to try and play mind reader as to who makes the decisions on offense

You won’t find that Tomlin pass from me. I was and have been disgusted by his lack of analytics and his decision making down the stretch was pitiful. Even the field goal was an insane call - asking your kicker to break the field record from distance. 

But it really doesn’t take a mind reader to see that this offense isn’t Matt Canada’s.  We are faking motion (seriously), we still aren’t running play action, we aren’t using jet, there’s little to no screen game, there’s no shifts…..but what we are doing is letting ben sit back, slow things down, and point out the defense. Ben isn’t talented enough anymore to do this without schematic help, but his desired style of offense isn’t that. He needs to get on board or move out of the way. 

[warfelg]

7 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

I was and have been disgusted by his lack of analytics and his decision making down the stretch was pitiful. Even the field goal was an insane call - asking your kicker to break the field record from distance. 

You wanna know what’s crazy? Remember about 3-4 years ago we brought in an “in game analytics guy” because of Tomlins pension for going for two and trying 4th downs? Since then we’ve been on of the most risk adverse teams in the NFL. 

[bigben07MVP]

9 hours ago, warfelg said:

Because for a while we’ve used his type that way. It’s not Chases fault. It’s the gameplan.

also Ben hasn’t taken one shot more than 10 yards down field in the middle since pre-elbow surgery. Huge issue. 

Yes, that’s why I went on to say I wish they would give him more “alpha” type opportunities. Give him the chance to be the #1 guy as opposed to the occasional jump ball or end-around handoff.

Ben has turned into a full on game manager. His mentality has completely shifted and it’s almost like he’s trying to outsmart the defense on every play because he doesn’t trust his arm anymore.

Im completely done with Ebron. I think overall he’s a net-negative to this offense. There’s nothing he can do that Pat cant. We spent a 2nd round pick on Friermuth to try and fill that gaping hole in the middle of the field that Ben has seemed to avoid since Heath retired. Pat needs more snaps and targets. 

[warfelg]

8 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Yes, that’s why I went on to say I wish they would give him more “alpha” type opportunities. Give him the chance to be the #1 guy as opposed to the occasional jump ball or end-around handoff.

Yea, I don't disagree, but yet (in a point I've been making) it's seeming like it's a Ben thing.  Tall fast WR's being a one trick pony.  Bigger possession WR's being a slot guy.  Small shifty WR's being the X WR.

Just look at the history: Burress, Bryant, Coats, Claypool, Sweed.  All got used the exact same way (Wallace fits here without the "Tall" part)

Brown, Johnson, Ward, Holmes, heck even for a time Cedric Wilson.  All got used the exact same way.

Look at our slots in Ben's time.  Cotchery (big for a slot), Juju (big for a slot), Washington (big for a slot)

Quote

Ben has turned into a full on game manager. His mentality has completely shifted and it’s almost like he’s trying to outsmart the defense on every play because he doesn’t trust his arm anymore.

He's not even a game manager.  He's late career Favre.  A late career gunslinger without the ability to gunsling.  Ben's never been the quickest processer of whats going on out on the field, and he's gotten slower while not having the ability to extend plays.

Quote

Im completely done with Ebron. I think overall he’s a net-negative to this offense. There’s nothing he can do that Pat cant. We spent a 2nd round pick on Friermuth to try and fill that gaping hole in the middle of the field that Ben has seemed to avoid since Heath retired. Pat needs more snaps and targets. 

Well the issue isn't Ebron is a net negative.  Heck Friermuth is going to fall into the same issue as Ebron.  They are a middle of the field stretcher with a QB who refuses to throw down the middle.  But yet again Ben's excuse for not trying it is "they are strong up the middle and the advantage was attacking the edges".  Quick glipse shows the Raiders playing cover 2/3 which means the seams are WIDE FREAKING OPEN.  This should have been a major eating game for Ebron and Friermuth, yet they were invisible.  

[warfelg]

Also, Odafe Oweh making the game winning play for Baltimore and looking good.  We're gonna regret letting him slide to Baltimore.

[Dcash4]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

You wanna know what’s crazy? Remember about 3-4 years ago we brought in an “in game analytics guy” because of Tomlins pension for going for two and trying 4th downs? Since then we’ve been on of the most risk adverse teams in the NFL. 

Yes! That has drove me crazy for years! It's nuts to me how he has rollercoaster'd through decision makings. Back when they moved the extra point distance and all of a sudden he took this aggressive, analytical loving approach but now he turtles into "field position".

I don't buy into analytics all the time, but there isn't one analytical person that will tell you field position matters anymore. They also would say that you having the ball is far more important in that situation than the negative cost of field position to the 2 score ahead team. 

We punted, wasted a time out and 2 minutes and got the ball 2 yards further back than where we were...yay field position!

Tomlin just seems to err on the side of the football he thinks is the strength. Jags playoff game, it was the offense -- we went for it twice. Last year against he Browns it was the defense -- punted/field goal twice. Yesterday it was the.... defense? Punted. There needs to be more thought into these. Someone needs to help him. Time and position are far greater values than field position. 

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Yes! That has drove me crazy for years! It's nuts to me how he has rollercoaster'd through decision makings. Back when they moved the extra point distance and all of a sudden he took this aggressive, analytical loving approach but now he turtles into "field position".

I don't buy into analytics all the time, but there isn't one analytical person that will tell you field position matters anymore. They also would say that you having the ball is far more important in that situation than the negative cost of field position to the 2 score ahead team. 

We punted, wasted a time out and 2 minutes and got the ball 2 yards further back than where we were...yay field position!

Tomlin just seems to err on the side of the football he thinks is the strength. Jags playoff game, it was the offense -- we went for it twice. Last year against he Browns it was the defense -- punted/field goal twice. Yesterday it was the.... defense? Punted. There needs to be more thought into these. Someone needs to help him. Time and position are far greater values than field position. 

Well that's the issue.....there is someone to help him.  This erring onto the side that's the strength and not going for it came when that help was brought in.  We know Tomlin is an aggressive coach based on his first 11 years as coach, and since then he's been cut back. 

Like even if you think your offense isn't as strong, you got an injured defense that's held your team in the game.  Sometimes these analytics things that the "excuse" don't take things like "My offense needs to be challenged while my defense needs a break" should take over the "if we pin them and play better defense it's better for us".

[Dcash4]

I cant quite put my finger on it....but something seems to be missing here. 

Just give me a minute, I am sure i'll get to the middle of it. 

[warfelg]

5 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I cant quite put my finger on it....but something seems to be missing here. 

Just give me a minute, I am sure i'll get to the middle of it. 

Not a problem. It’s all coaching. 
Also I don’t have the ability to do this but I’m curious: if you could take every pass attempt from Ben over 2020 and 2021 what a heat chart would look like  I’m willing to bet it looks like a U  

Also Harris played 53 of 56 snaps. This offense is only gonna get worse at this rate. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by warfelg

[Dcash4]

2 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Well that's the issue.....there is someone to help him.  This erring onto the side that's the strength and not going for it came when that help was brought in.  We know Tomlin is an aggressive coach based on his first 11 years as coach, and since then he's been cut back. 

Like even if you think your offense isn't as strong, you got an injured defense that's held your team in the game.  Sometimes these analytics things that the "excuse" don't take things like "My offense needs to be challenged while my defense needs a break" should take over the "if we pin them and play better defense it's better for us".

Im not trying to push back, I am just honestly curious -- but who? They don't have any listed as on field/in box personnel to help him making in game decisions. If you look at the progressive teams they have titles all over the place like "analyst, analysis, and quality control". We don't. 

I take that back, we have one -- Matt Tomsho, who came with Canada. 

And I totally agree with the bottom. Tomlin gets stuck in this "execution" mode. If we execute, we will do better. Well, probably not when Marcus Allen is your starting ILB and you match Robert Spillane on WR's or TJ, Haden, Tyson, and Bush are all injured and it stops you from using Minkah more effectively. 

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Im not trying to push back, I am just honestly curious -- but who? They don't have any listed as on field/in box personnel to help him making in game decisions. If you look at the progressive teams they have titles all over the place like "analyst, analysis, and quality control". We don't. 

I take that back, we have one -- Matt Tomsho, who came with Canada. 

And I totally agree with the bottom. Tomlin gets stuck in this "execution" mode. If we execute, we will do better. Well, probably not when Marcus Allen is your starting ILB and you match Robert Spillane on WR's or TJ, Haden, Tyson, and Bush are all injured and it stops you from using Minkah more effectively. 

Karim Kassan who just got hired away to the Jags. When he was promoted to head of analytics (2014) is when Tomlins decision making got bad.

[Dcash4]

6 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Also I don’t have the ability to do this but I’m curious: if you could take every pass attempt from Ben over 2020 and 2021 what a heat chart would look like  I’m willing to bet it looks like a U  

I just did it, and well, its not pretty. 

It's more of an L from week to week. He attacks one sideline and then its a straight line across from sideline to sideline across the 10 yard mark. 

It's also interesting because if you look at his overall year chart, he has an above average QB rating when targeting the middle of the field at all levels. Obviously smaller sample size, but it's not like thats a deadzone where good footballs go to die.