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2021 Week Two GDT Steelers vs Da Raiders!


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4 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

Strange…there’s one constant in all this…

Last I checked, it wasn't Ben Roethlisberger clamoring to change the offense in 2011. But you would have us believe that he's responsible for the schematic changes that Todd Haley implemented.

The U-shaped offensive targets isn't new. If you think it is, you haven't been paying nearly as close of attention as you think. Roethlisberger sure as **** didn't win two Super Bowls avoiding the middle of the field and decide on his own that he was suddenly going to eschew his bread and butter for the second half of his career. That was beaten out of him from above.

4 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

 

Like the practice thing: yea, it can be Tomlins fault for doing it (I’m a literal broken record on this every season) but the guy who supposedly wears all the blame to the press not standing up and saying “coach I gotta get more reps” is also to blame. 

When you believe that Diontae Johnson is likely the one making the correct decisions because he practices on Wednesday and not Ben Roethlisberger when they aren't on the same page, I think you have a narrative that you won't let go of.

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9 hours ago, warfelg said:

Also, Odafe Oweh making the game winning play for Baltimore and looking good.  We're gonna regret letting him slide to Baltimore.

We didnt "let him" slide to Baltimore.   He plays a position that wasnt a big need, and he had question marks.   

 

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2 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

But you would have us believe that he's responsible for the schematic changes that Todd Haley implemented.

No, no not really. Big Bens problem isn’t schematics its willingness to be coached in schematics and buy in. Todd Haley completely revolutionized Bens game and made him a better, more efficient QB. Bens problems are he likes to do what he likes to do and what Ben likes to do is throw the ball. Hence the reason Todd was brought in and the first thing they did was eliminate Bens audible ability. Ben likes to read defenses without people in motion. Ben likes to not have his back to the defense. He doesn’t like pace. Ben doesn’t like the R part of an RPO (look up the numbers). Ben doesn’t want to sneak it. 

Ben isn’t talent enough anymore to be the hero to get away with poor schematics like in the past and he doesn’t have the talent around him (like AB) to get away with simple game plans he likes to operate with. Those are the issues that rear their ugly heads regardless of coach.

So when you don’t want to blame ben AT ALL and point all the blame anywhere but to him, that’s why we all see this that Ben is a part of the problem. Because you don’t go through 4 different offensive coordinators who just somehow none like to do basic concepts you see every single damn Sunday around the NFL without there being one constant that’s against it….and that constant is……

2 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

When you believe that Diontae Johnson is likely the one making the correct decisions because he practices on Wednesday and not Ben Roethlisberger when they aren't on the same page

Never said who was right or wrong. Just need to acknowledge that if you aren’t taking the reps - you don’t get the corrections until Sunday. 

2 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

I think you have a narrative that you won't let go of.

Just so long as your aware of yours, pal. 

Would still love for you to describe my narrative though. Big Bens my hands down favorite football player ever and I was perfectly fine with canning Tomlin last year and for sure against extending him. Just curious where I stand…..but ya know, narratives! 

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4 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

He doesn’t like pace.

Oooo, sorry got to disagree with this. Ben loves playing at a pace. He loves playing that Peyton Manning “muddle” offense where they no huddle but all come closer. Works great when you got an AB and Bell. Doesn’t when you don’t have those guys. 

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1 minute ago, warfelg said:

Oooo, sorry got to disagree with this. Ben loves playing at a pace. He loves playing that Peyton Manning “muddle” offense where they no huddle but all come closer. Works great when you got an AB and Bell. Doesn’t when you don’t have those guys. 

well this is a two part convo. Ben plays with no pace in huddle. It’s sit down. Look around. Point out reads. Look around. Snap.  He rarely plays with hard counts and doesn’t quick snap. That’s the pace I’m talking about. McVay plays with pace. Ben is the opposite end of that line. 

But also the reason he liked the muddle huddle/no huddle was control …he got to call plays. That was also under the OC control of Haley. Notice that went away, largely in the Fichtner offense? It’s because ben was more in control with Randy and they pulled it out on occasion. 

He would talk about it constantly about his own play calling in the no huddle and pushed it in the media all the time how he wanted to run it. With Randy? Only when it was desperation time. 

Id love to see them play with more urgency and pace. Ben IS good in the no huddle and it would limit what defenses could scheme against our o-line. 

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Call me crazy but if we don’t see improvements from Ben/the offense the next 3-4 weeks I wouldn’t mind giving Cam Newton a call. He looked pretty good in the preseason and his threat to run could open up holes for Najee. Run more of a smash mouth/ball control style of offense to pair with our defense. Claypool and JuJu are the types of receivers he’s excelled with in the past.

I know I’m living in a fantasy but I just can’t sit through Ben/our offense looking like this for 17 games. 

 

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2 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

Call me crazy but if we don’t see improvements from Ben/the offense the next 3-4 weeks I wouldn’t mind giving Cam Newton a call. He looked pretty good in the preseason and his threat to run could open up holes for Najee. Run more of a smash mouth/ball control style of offense to pair with our defense. Claypool and JuJu are the types of receivers he’s excelled with in the past.

I know I’m living in a fantasy but I just can’t sit through Ben/our offense looking like this for 17 games. 

 

If we were actually going to move on from Ben in season, I’d find a nice way to IR him and just turn the keys to Mason/Haskins. 

I don’t expect either to do much, but at least find out. Find out about them, find out about Canada, find out about the OLine. Just everything. Does it need to be a page 1 rewrite or can they salvage any of the pieces to move forward. 

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14 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

Todd Haley completely revolutionized Bens game and made him a better, more efficient QB. Bens problems are he likes to do what he likes to do and what Ben likes to do is throw the ball. Hence the reason Todd was brought in and the first thing they did was eliminate Bens audible ability. Ben likes to read defenses without people in motion. Ben likes to not have his back to the defense. He doesn’t like pace. Ben doesn’t like the R part of an RPO (look up the numbers). Ben doesn’t want to sneak it. 

Other than the sack numbers, what got more efficient under Todd Haley? Certainly not his YPA, which is the single stat that correlates the best with winning. And your argument has changed regardless. Here we were talking about things like the intermediate passing game, using the deep middle of the field and play action and you start talking about the use of shotgun and RPO's.

When did the team go heavy shotgun? It started under Haley. It escalated every year, continued under Fitchner and remained the case even in 2019 when Ben was out all year.

So let's take a step back - your argument is that Ben simultaneously was being put in check by Todd Haley while getting more of what he supposedly wants from the offense like, you know, not using the middle of the field?

The coaches are the ones who eliminated the between the numbers throws. Not Ben. The coaches are the ones who eliminated play action from the offense. Not Ben. And the heavy use of RPO's only started after the run game fell off a cliff.

I think it's funny that you completely discount the notion that a risk averse head coach like Tomlin who prefers a plodding play-it-safe offense doesn't prefer to avoid throwing into  heavier traffic in the middle of the field. No, somehow it must be Ben who has decided after having great success doing it in the first half of his career that he was just going to eschew it during the second half.

14 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

Never said who was right or wrong. Just need to acknowledge that if you aren’t taking the reps - you don’t get the corrections until Sunday. 

Because they can't tell if Johnson is screwing up his routes until gameday if Ben doesn't practice on Wednesday? There aren't coaches there to tell Johnson to do basic things like keep running your route and not give up on it if you face a bit of contact, as we saw against the Raiders?

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1 hour ago, CKSteeler said:

And your argument has changed regardless. Here we were talking about things like the intermediate passing game, using the deep middle of the field and play action and you start talking about the use of shotgun and RPO's.

How has my argument changed? I don't know how simple of a world you live in, my man, but there can be more than one thing going on at the same time. 

Like how it can be both Ben AND Tomlin's fault. Can you admit that yet, or nah?

1 hour ago, CKSteeler said:

The coaches are the ones who eliminated the between the numbers throws

Yes, I am sure three different coaches decided to eliminate the most fertile area of the field for passing in the modern NFL.  

1 hour ago, CKSteeler said:

The coaches are the ones who eliminated play action from the offense.

Yes, I am sure three different coaches decided to eliminate one of the most efficient means of creating plays down field in the NFL. 

1 hour ago, CKSteeler said:

And the heavy use of RPO's only started after the run game fell off a cliff.

Well, I wont be sarcastic here. This is just plain wrong. RPO's were a heavy Haley introduction....back when we were having run success. And as the relationship went on, RPO's became PO's. 

Look man, you can blame whoever you want, but not being willing to admit ANY blame at the quarterback is wrong and an unreasonable thing to keep arguing against....so I'll stop. We are continually headed in the opposite direction of the rest of the league in it's now happened over THREE different coordinators. Look at Aaron Rodgers. He was a heavy shotgun QB who ALSO didn't like motion, turning his back to the football and not having the ball in his hands, but then he bought in. The Shotgun numbers are closer to 60/40, his PA numbers rocketed up, rushing attempts increase year by year --- and he crushed an MVP season last year. 

There's too many simple, BASIC, core concepts in the NFL offense that we flat out don't do. If you look at it all and think that 3 separate coordinators are ignoring those and that the head coach is directing it all....all while the QB has nothing to do with it...I don't know what to say. So I won't say anything any longer. 

1 hour ago, CKSteeler said:

Because they can't tell if Johnson is screwing up his routes until gameday if Ben doesn't practice on Wednesday? There aren't coaches there to tell Johnson to do basic things like keep running your route and not give up on it if you face a bit of contact, as we saw against the Raiders?

🙄

Why is everything so black and white with you? You get they can both be right or both be wrong too, right? But if they don't have those reps -- they can't get on the same page. If DJ runs an option route against a certain pre-snap look that changes post snap and he and Mason connect. DJ may carry that over to the game where if it was Ben's rep, he may have seen it differently. It's not hard to get man, reps are vital. 

I'm happy to put most of the blame on DJ in a lot of these cases, but unlike you, I will also say it's in part Ben's fault for not having enough reps to take care of that during the week. 

Oh, and It would also be partly Tomlin's fault for allowing Ben to miss all these reps during the season. Look at that? I blamed 3 people for one thing. Care to do the same? No? Because of other peoples narratives, right?

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24 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Jebrick: I get that Taco is younger and more versatile than the two players that I am going to mention, but why not take a flier on disruptive Geno Atkins or DT Kwan Short? I think both would be better run stuffer.

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