Anthony Richardson is the best pro QB prospect in college football right now regardless of class...

[VanS]

On 9/16/2021 at 6:56 PM, Ozzy said:

Promise is one thing but to me he has to show a hell of a lot more before I call him the #1 pick in the 2023 draft.  Will see how he looks against the #1 defense in college football this weekend like I said.  

 

He was a walking turnover, sure before teams knew how to handle him he was successful but once teams got the book on him he was far less effective.

 

Sure he had injuries but again he was a damn walking turnover, watch ever Viking game in his career, the dude made a crap ton of mistakes in the pocket and with the ball throwing.  Not sure if it was his little hands or what, but he got stripped all the time and honestly was not that great of a runner because he could not handle holding onto the ball when being tackled more often than not.

But sure he had success as a player but I would not call him a great QB at all and no way is he a Hall of Fame QB either.  He only had what 5 good years, yeah Josh Freeman had four solid years, three where anywhere from 3500 yards to 4000 yards passing.  No one now is calling him some great QB because it simply did not last same with Daunte.

 

But honestly Richardson would be lucky to have the slightly above average performance as a QB in the NFL for a short time Daunte had.  So yeah I need to see a hell of a lot more from him that is for sure.  TJ Finley is a big strong kid with a ton of athletic potential and upside as well, no one is calling him a #1 overall pick, and Finley has far more proven production in college than Richardson has, granted he was nothing great but so far same with Richardson outside of what he did against USF.  

Was Josh Freeman a 2-time All-Pro QB?

I don't know what it is with certain great QBs from the early 2000s and the amount of disrespect they get now.  Last year when I compared Trey Lance to Donovan McNabb someone claimed McNabb was trash as well.  Despite the fact McNabb was a perennial MVP candidate in the early 2000s.  You're doing the same thing now with Culpepper.   The guy was a historic MVP season from Peyton Manning in 2004 from being a 2-time 1st team All-Pro QB in 5 years as a starter.  I don't know many QBs with a resume like that in such a short time frame.  

[Ozzy]

5 hours ago, VanS said:

Was Josh Freeman a 2-time All-Pro QB?

I don't know what it is with certain great QBs from the early 2000s and the amount of disrespect they get now.  Last year when I compared Trey Lance to Donovan McNabb someone claimed McNabb was trash as well.  Despite the fact McNabb was a perennial MVP candidate in the early 2000s.  You're doing the same thing now with Culpepper.   The guy was a historic MVP season from Peyton Manning in 2004 from being a 2-time 1st team All-Pro QB in 5 years as a starter.  I don't know many QBs with a resume like that in such a short time frame.  

Culpepper was a 3 time Pro bowler in 2000, 2003 and 2004.  He was 1st team All Pro in 2000 and 2nd team All Pro in 2004 which were obviously his Pro bowl years as well.  That was out of 11 years and 5 of those years he was pretty bad and arguably he only played 5 good years out of 11 and the 1st year he obviously did not play at all.  

Grand scheme of things is he a Hall of Fame QB?  Hell no so he should not be talked about as if he is one, he had a few good seasons but even those good seasons he was pretty damn suspect.  Do I have to bring up again 81 fumbles in 82 games?  He is tied with Kerry Collins for #1 all time in most fumbles in a single season with 23!  That is the making of a great QB?  And in terms of McNabb?  McNabb had arguably 11 solid NFL seasons not freaking 5.  

 

Sure he was big and athletic and physically is pretty rare with his size, but his turnovers almost completely destroy whatever he is physically because how can any team win when he turns it over like that?  And disregard the fumbles for a second which are huge, think of all the INTs.  And this is the list of when he was good, the other seasons he did not play enough to throw many INTs but if he did he absolutely would have throw a ton more in his career.  

 

33 TDs and 16 INTs
14 TDs and 13 INTs
18 TDs and 23 INTs
25 TDs and 11 INTs
39 TDs and 11 INTs

 

Not to mention one Randy Moss had a crap ton to do with Culpepper's success, take Randy off those Viking teams and Culpepper would be even worse.  With Randy he could play poorly but chuck it deep to him and make big plays winning the game.  Sure the guy is good but he is not nearly as good as you make him out to be.  Go watch every Viking game he played, that might jog your memory a bit, because anyone that did watch every Viking game he played pretty sure the turnovers ad nauseam made one quickly forget about any positives he brought to the table over time.  

 

Pretty sure comparing anyone to a QB who had little hands, odd build, got hurt a lot in the lower body, very top heavy, fumbled a ton and turned it over in general often is not a great comparison because that player in the grand scheme of things was not really a great pro or wildly successful one outside of a few good years.  Is anyone talking up Emory Jones?  Fact is what the Florida offensive did against Bama was impressive and they did it all without Richardson, clearly that OL is pretty underrated as are the backs like Wright and Pierce.  They know how to run that system and run that QB run game married with the power run game and the TEs.  Richardson will benefit off it and is one to watch no question but again might need to see a bit more from him.  Any athletic QB in that offense I feel would look good with how they looked against Bama.  

[VanS]

On 9/24/2021 at 6:10 PM, Ozzy said:

Culpepper was a 3 time Pro bowler in 2000, 2003 and 2004.  He was 1st team All Pro in 2000 and 2nd team All Pro in 2004 which were obviously his Pro bowl years as well.  That was out of 11 years and 5 of those years he was pretty bad and arguably he only played 5 good years out of 11 and the 1st year he obviously did not play at all.  

Grand scheme of things is he a Hall of Fame QB?  Hell no so he should not be talked about as if he is one, he had a few good seasons but even those good seasons he was pretty damn suspect.  Do I have to bring up again 81 fumbles in 82 games?  He is tied with Kerry Collins for #1 all time in most fumbles in a single season with 23!  That is the making of a great QB?  And in terms of McNabb?  McNabb had arguably 11 solid NFL seasons not freaking 5.  

 

Sure he was big and athletic and physically is pretty rare with his size, but his turnovers almost completely destroy whatever he is physically because how can any team win when he turns it over like that?  And disregard the fumbles for a second which are huge, think of all the INTs.  And this is the list of when he was good, the other seasons he did not play enough to throw many INTs but if he did he absolutely would have throw a ton more in his career.  

 

33 TDs and 16 INTs
14 TDs and 13 INTs
18 TDs and 23 INTs
25 TDs and 11 INTs
39 TDs and 11 INTs

 

Not to mention one Randy Moss had a crap ton to do with Culpepper's success, take Randy off those Viking teams and Culpepper would be even worse.  With Randy he could play poorly but chuck it deep to him and make big plays winning the game.  Sure the guy is good but he is not nearly as good as you make him out to be.  Go watch every Viking game he played, that might jog your memory a bit, because anyone that did watch every Viking game he played pretty sure the turnovers ad nauseam made one quickly forget about any positives he brought to the table over time.  

 

Pretty sure comparing anyone to a QB who had little hands, odd build, got hurt a lot in the lower body, very top heavy, fumbled a ton and turned it over in general often is not a great comparison because that player in the grand scheme of things was not really a great pro or wildly successful one outside of a few good years.  Is anyone talking up Emory Jones?  Fact is what the Florida offensive did against Bama was impressive and they did it all without Richardson, clearly that OL is pretty underrated as are the backs like Wright and Pierce.  They know how to run that system and run that QB run game married with the power run game and the TEs.  Richardson will benefit off it and is one to watch no question but again might need to see a bit more from him.  Any athletic QB in that offense I feel would look good with how they looked against Bama.  

So you're gonna totally ignore the catastrophic knee injury in 2005 that essentially ended Culpepper's career?  

In 5 healthy seasons, Culpepper was a 3-time Pro Bowler and 2-time All-Pro.  I would say he had a Hall of Fame start to his career.  We have no idea how good he could have been if he never got injured. 

[biggie.]

On 9/16/2021 at 11:29 AM, VanS said:

In his first year as a starter Culpepper was named 1st team All-Pro.  He threw for 3900 yards and 33 TDs.  Numbers that seem average today but were ELITE in the year 2000.  Sure he had a couple of down years after that but he rebounded nicely in 2003 and 2004 with back to back Pro Bowl seasons (including being named 2nd team All-Pro in 2004).  Then he had that devastating knee injury which made him a shell of his former self.  Go back and look up Peyton Manning and Tom Brady's numbers during that Era.  Culpepper compared very favorably to them.  Great QBs having down years statistically was more common back then.  So to me Culpepper not being elite in 2001 and 2002 doesn't take away from the fact he was elite in his 3 other seasons as a starter before the knee injury.

Daunte Culpepper was a GREAT QB when he was healthy.  It's just unfortunate he was only healthy for 5 seasons as a starter. 

Yeah, he can thank Randy Moss and Cris Carter for all that.

As for McNabb, he was the most overrated QB's of the 2000's. Total choke artist and Jim Johnson's defenses were a bigger contributer to Philly's success in that era. He was solid up to his SB appearance and after that he got worse every year afterwards.

Edited September 29, 2021 by biggie.

[Hunter2_1]

On 9/16/2021 at 7:47 AM, Chargers said:

WOW I came in here expecting nothing much but from looking at highlights the hype is real. He looks like Cam did when he was in college, looking like a grown man playing against JV. 

and then Van S put the jynx on him

[tyler735]

10 hours ago, biggie. said:

Yeah, he can thank Randy Moss and Cris Carter for all that.

Early in his career with the Vikings that could definitely be said, but in his best season with the Vikings in 2004 that really wasn't the case. In 2004 his leading WR was Nate Burleson. Moss missed some games that season and Carter was retired by then. Oddly enough, Jermaine Wiggins had nearly as many receiving yards as Moss that season (about 700 receiving yards each). The Vikings lead RB was Mr. Whizzinator Onterrio Smith...He had just over 500 rushing yards.

That season Culpepper accounted for 41 touchdowns, 11 interceptions, 111 QB Rating, 4717 pass yards, 69% completion percentage, and 406 rush yards. It was a truly great season especially in that era for QB's. In just about any other season in that era, it would have been an MVP season, but Manning also went off in 2004. Then the next season things went downhill quick as the Vikings got rid of Moss and replaced him with Troy Williamson and Culpepper shredded every ligament in his knee that season, which he never really bounced back from. 

[Ragnarok]

Guys, I think we've discussed Culpepper enough.  He's not draft eligible.

[Mox]

Taking a shot on the most physically gifted QB's has turned out a lot better than the WR predictions made that's for sure.

 

[scar988]

Bryce Young says hello.

[VanS]

On 9/28/2021 at 9:11 PM, biggie. said:

Yeah, he can thank Randy Moss and Cris Carter for all that.

As for McNabb, he was the most overrated QB's of the 2000's. Total choke artist and Jim Johnson's defenses were a bigger contributer to Philly's success in that era. He was solid up to his SB appearance and after that he got worse every year afterwards.

Guess we should kick Peyton Manning out of the Hall of Fame because he had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Edgerrin James or Kurt Warner because he had Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, and Torry Holt or just about every other great QB in NFL history.  Almost every QB who puts up All-Pro numbers has an awesome supporting cast.  To try and dismiss Culpepper's numbers because he had Moss and Carter is to be disingenuous.

As for McNabb, I had this debate already last year.  I'm not gonna get into a revisionist debate about him.  In the early 2000s he was considered a perennial MVP candidate who led his teams to deep playoff runs and was one of the faces of the league.  Remember all those Chunky Soup commercials?  I don't care that you think he was overrated.  At the time he was considered a top QB.   I don't care to have revisionist debates about him.

[VanS]

On 9/30/2021 at 12:37 PM, scar988 said:

Bryce Young says hello.

He doesn't have the physical tools to be an elite NFL QB.  Too small.  Arm too weak.  Not that athletic.

[biggie.]

1 hour ago, VanS said:

He doesn't have the physical tools to be an elite NFL QB.  Too small.  Arm too weak.  Not that athletic.

Same exact thing was said about Brees.

Edited October 3, 2021 by biggie.

[biggie.]

2 hours ago, VanS said:

Guess we should kick Peyton Manning out of the Hall of Fame because he had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Edgerrin James or Kurt Warner because he had Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, and Torry Holt or just about every other great QB in NFL history.  Almost every QB who puts up All-Pro numbers has an awesome supporting cast.  To try and dismiss Culpepper's numbers because he had Moss and Carter is to be disingenuous.

As for McNabb, I had this debate already last year.  I'm not gonna get into a revisionist debate about him.  In the early 2000s he was considered a perennial MVP candidate who led his teams to deep playoff runs and was one of the faces of the league.  Remember all those Chunky Soup commercials?  I don't care that you think he was overrated.  At the time he was considered a top QB.   I don't care to have revisionist debates about him.

Strawman. Manning and Warner made their teams better and made and won Super Bowls. We all saw what happened when they left their respective teams. Culpepper looked like complete crap in his first season without Moss and well before his injury. Moss on the other hand put up over 1k yards and 8 touchdowns with freaking Kerry Collins as his QB.

Edited October 3, 2021 by biggie.

[VanS]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:56 PM, biggie. said:

Same exact thing was said about Brees.

Betting on outliers is never a smart move. 

[scar988]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:01 PM, VanS said:

He doesn't have the physical tools to be an elite NFL QB.  Too small.  Arm too weak.  Not that athletic.

Kind of like Russell Wilson?

Or Baker Mayfield?

Or Kyler Murray?

Or Drew Brees?