2021 Week 2 Five Up and Five Down Da Raiders Loss

[Steeler Hitman]

Up

 

1. Boz - - He looks special! We are wasting a great kicker and defense with this pathetic offensive attack. Nuff said.

2. Robert Spillane - - Took a lot of heat in preseason and brought it. BS penalty on the hard hit to Derek Carr as well.

3. Entire Steelers Defense. Kept the offense in the game before getting worn down. Thought this was going to happen last week. 

4. Big Ben - - I don't see the offensive woes being on him. Continued talk of poor arm strength and declined play, but the other members on the OL and some untimely drops hurt continued drives and scoring opportunities. I think Ben played well enough to win. Offensive supporting cast is not supporting. INT was on  Dionte Johnson who stopped running. 

5. Najee Harris - - Great to see his first score and did a few things with very little blocking. Raiders defense was in the bottom statistically, but they took over the game.

 

 

Down

1. Offense is just plain bad. No cohesion, no consistency, and never help or compliment the defense.

2. Trai Turner. I get the passion and fire, but spitting on someone. C'mon man! That's classless.

3. Injuries: Tyson (probably significant), Watt, no Bush, no Haden, Dionte???

4. Penalties

5. Inconsistent coaching. Got outcoached this week. Should have gone for it on fourth and less than a yard in the fourth. I don't think it matters (we lose anyway), but offense wasn't ready to compete today. Twelve straight games no opening drive TD.

6. Eric Ebron - - huge drop that could have at least extended a drive. Continues to be consistently inconsistent pass catching and zero in blocking. 

7. WR's - - Raiders DB's shut them down. Broke up passes, knocked guys backwards. Too much talent to get shut down like this. 

[mwalker]

UP

JuJu - he was tough. It's easy to forget how good he is some times.
Harvin - he ws boomin
Bos - so under rated around the NFL
Ingram - thought he was good today 
Cam H - every. game.

DOWN

Injuries - no doubt the worst part of today.
Canada - agree with above. No consistency or 
OL / Running game - Harris is too good to be held to these numbers
Witherspoon - Maybe he expected Minkah over the top, but that play killed us
Ebron - the drops are boring now



 

[warfelg]

Ups:

Finally a loss to a Raiders team that was better than us.

Downs:

This offense is always all talk with changes but it's the same ole Big Ben offense.

In this offense it was all talk about how we would dedicate to the run, we're going to make changes, Ben can't throw the ball as much as he did.  Welp, two games into the season and he's thrown the ball 72 times.  Ran it 35 times.  This is not sustainable.  64/36 pass/run ratio in 2020 when those statements of needing to run it more.  67/33 pass/run ratio this year so far.

Time for many here to pull their head out of the sand.  Ben's the issue right now.

I was curious, so I did the math on pass/run ratio's based on OC:

Whisenhunt: 1260 passes, 1636 runs; 43.5/56.5 pass/run ratio

Arians: 2482 passes, 2304 runs; 51.9/48.1 pass/run ratio

Haley: 3152 passes, 2463 runs; 56.1/43.9 pass/run ratio

Fitchner: 1855 passes, 1113 runs; 62.5/37.5 pass/run ratio

Canada: 72 passes, 35 runs; 67/33 run/pass ratio

Yet the song and dance is always the same with an OC change.  The OLine needs to get better, the offense needs to run the ball more, we need to get back to ground and pound.  We change OL Coaches, bring in RB after RB, bring in new OC's, bring in guys to coordinate the run game....yet we pass the ball more and more.

[Steeler Hitman]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Warfelg, I definitely respect your approach, insights and opinions. Some things here I agree with and others, I strongly disagree because I don't feel it is an accurate or shall we say apples to apples comparison. 

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Ups:

Finally a loss to a Raiders team that was better than us.

 

I will agree that the better team/coaching/effort won yesterday. I don't know if the Raiders have more talent top to bottom than the Steelers. Clearly the Raiders offense is clicking better than ours, but defensively, I think the Raiders would trade many of their defensive players for the Steelers. They had issues and injuries, but their players and coaches stepped up. Period! 

I respect the heck out of the Raiders and their grit. I agree that the Raiders are always under-rated by many. They match up very well with the Steelers as do the Bills. However, I do not think this loss was because the Steelers played a better roster/superior overall team than them.  I think that the differences in the game were:

1. The Raiders defense stepped up big time. They played much better than they are ranked and the secondary, IDL, and coordinator stepped up.

2. The Raiders offense did enough to support the defense even when they sputtered.  The Raiders offense complimented the defense by getting a few first downs, flipping the field at times, and even though they didn't put up TD's scored.  If the Steelers offense stepped up more, the Steelers could have been up say, 14-6 at the half. I think it's a different game. With no help from the Steelers offense, the Raiders wore the defense down, made a big play here or there, and with all the injuries on defense didn't help either. The Raiders offense took over the second half. 

3. The Steelers offenses lack of cohesion or ability to consistently string together a few first down, flip the field or establish any consistent momentum. The Steelers offense did not do what the Raiders offense did. The Raiders even began to have some success running in the second half after the defense was getting gassed and out schemed.  

I don't know if that adds up to a Raiders team being better. I would agree if you said that Buffalo lost to a team that is not as good as they are. As I said in the game thread, "The better team doesn't always win." I don't think this is a case of the Steelers playing the Raiders 10 times and the Raiders winning seven or eight of them. The Steelers were favored for a reason. Like Buffalo the previous week, the Steelers didn't play their best. The Raiders stepped up and kept their foot on the gas. They overcame the disadvantages and they won. No sour grapes, mad respect for them, but huge disappointment in the Steelers offensive execution. I just can't say that they lost to a superior team. 

Downs:

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This offense is always all talk with changes but it's the same ole Big Ben offense.

I don't get the, "Big Ben or the Big Ben offense is the problem here." He has not been complimented on offense by any of the supporting cast outside of Najee. Get him same dang blocking or the ball alone in space more consistently.  The OL is a hot mess. They open a legitimate hole once or twice a quarter. Ben extends a play and then the receiver stops running or drops the ball. While I don't think Ben looks like the second coming of Patrick Mahomes at his age, I don't think he he has not done anything to hold this offense back. He is not the problem with the offense. I know QB gets credit and blame they shouldn't, but the INT thrown was on Dionte, the dropped pass after extending a play AGAIN was on Ebron. The OL not opening consistent running lanes is not Ben. The poor play calling is not Ben. They have an OC who calls and scripts plays. 

I will fault Ben for some decision making. Third and three, get the first down. That is when you can run a four yard route. Don't throw a bomb to Claypool there.  More often than not, this offense is running crossing and underneath routes on Third and 12. I think Ben has played well enough to win both games. Has the supporting offensive cast and play calling been good enough to support our 38 year old QB with a supposedly shot arm? 

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In this offense it was all talk about how we would dedicate to the run, we're going to make changes, Ben can't throw the ball as much as he did.  Welp, two games into the season and he's thrown the ball 72 times.  Ran it 35 times.  This is not sustainable.  64/36 pass/run ratio in 2020 when those statements of needing to run it more.  67/33 pass/run ratio this year so far.

You can't establish the run opening one hole a quarter and being blown back off the ball three of seven times and stuffed the other four. While I am disappointed, I understand that Chuks is playing out of position and is just not a great run blocker anyways. We have a rookie C, We have a rookie LT.  I pray that Zach Banner is at or near 100% come week four. Buffalo and the Raiders are solid defenses, but not  what many would call really good or great. I think both have had problems against teams that can run at times in the past. The Bills secondary is their strength. I think the Raiders secondary played very well, but our OL couldn't take advantage of their DL. One could argue the Ravens running success is scheme with fear of Lamar, but the Ravens blew some guys off the ball a few times. The Steelers didn't and don't very often. Solomon Thomas and company gave our IOL fits most of the game. They had them quite frustrated as indicated by Turner getting mad enough to try to spit on someone. 🤬

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Time for many here to pull their head out of the sand.  Ben's the issue right now.

Ben has gotten the defensive help, but what has anyone on offense done to extend drives, take over or be consistent with anything except inconsistency? This isn't like last year when Ben was missing wide open receivers, accuracy/tired arm/bad legs,  or checking down when receivers were open 25 yards downfield. Claypool and Johnson have not stepped up and taken over. Ju Ju hasn't been given the opportunities to make a difference outside. They could throw more to Freiermuth, Najee, and dare I say even FB Derek Watt. As the QB, Ben will own some of this, but not the majority in my opinion.  Late last year yes, through week two of 2021, no.  

Quote

 

I was curious, so I did the math on pass/run ratio's based on OC:

Whisenhunt: 1260 passes, 1636 runs; 43.5/56.5 pass/run ratio

Arians: 2482 passes, 2304 runs; 51.9/48.1 pass/run ratio

Haley: 3152 passes, 2463 runs; 56.1/43.9 pass/run ratio

Fitchner: 1855 passes, 1113 runs; 62.5/37.5 pass/run ratio

Canada: 72 passes, 35 runs; 67/33 run/pass ratio

 

Look at the OL's and weapons of those times compared to what Canada has right now.  We criticized Whisenhunt for not letting Ben let her rip more. We criticized Arians for getting Ben killed and not running the ball more. We criticized Haley because he was sometimes Todd Haley 😲 (play calling). Fitchner was criticized because he couldn't make adjustments and kept pounding his head against the wall so to speak offensively.  

It is also somewhat unfair to compare two games to an entire body of work and a severely limited scope of talent. Canada may be at fault for some things but he is also trying to make lemonade with crushed lemons, scrambling eggs with broken eggs, and to quote Brock Lesner, "Trying to turn a chicken #@#% OL into chicken salad." 🤬 I don't mean that literally, but I would hope that lights a fire under some guys. Our OL is bad and is getting beat up. They are getting beat up against teams that other OL's are beating up. The scorecard is therefore incomplete for Canada. Some of that is from a talent standpoint and others injury. If this were happening with Banner and Chuks on the left, I would have to concede that point early, but not overall. I am still not adverse to trying to sign a LT Russull Okung. We hear it all starts up front all the time. It is true in the Steelers case.

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Yet the song and dance is always the same with an OC change.  The OLine needs to get better, the offense needs to run the ball more, we need to get back to ground and pound.  We change OL Coaches, bring in RB after RB, bring in new OC's, bring in guys to coordinate the run game....yet we pass the ball more and more.

I don't think the OC needs to change, but he needs to teak the game plan. Especially without having the ability to run on all cylinders. I think some players need to step up on offense as well. Dionte is a play maker. Make plays. Ebron is a receiving TE, catch the dang ball! No doubt the OL needs to get better. Some improvement will come with health and other improvements with an infusion and maturation of the current talent or by adding additional talent. Losing Mike Munchak was huge. No doubt and no way that can easily be replaced without bringing someone else in on that same level (Dante' S or Bill C for example). You have to gain positive yardage to run the ball consistently otherwise you are always behind in down and distance. This offense is trying to  manufacture a running game by putting them in second and short. We saw that hasn't always helped. Second and two has turned to third and five. You can't establish the run like that. When the talent is in place, then I think we can fairly and objectively make an apples to apples comparison. I am with you on the bottom line: The offense, the rushing attack, and offensive game flow results all stink!!! 

 

[jebrick]

Now that Ben has thrown Canada under the bus, we can move on to his farewell tour.  I said at the start of this that if Ben does not buy into the system it will fail.  When the Houston Texans, at team that should be playing for the #1 pick, has a much better look offense then the Steelers, it is time to hang it up.  And I do not blame Canada.  I still blame Ben.  I will want to see the offense under Rudolph or some mobile QB.

[43M]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

In this offense it was all talk about how we would dedicate to the run, we're going to make changes, Ben can't throw the ball as much as he did.  Welp, two games into the season and he's thrown the ball 72 times.  Ran it 35 times.  This is not sustainable.  64/36 pass/run ratio in 2020 when those statements of needing to run it more.  67/33 pass/run ratio this year so far.

Time for many here to pull their head out of the sand.  Ben's the issue right now.

1)  Ben is AN issue.

He isnt THE issue.

2)  Its hard to commit to the run when your OLine gets ZERO push.  It was a nice dream and one I was hoping would be reality, but the OL feels similar to last year.

Im not sure how thats on Ben.    You could argue his inability to throw downfield allows opposing defenses to stack the box, but his receivers arent getting separation, especially downfield.

I still fully believe we should've moved on from Ben, but who exactly was realitically going to come in and have notably more success than Ben is having now?

I just wonder when people are going to realize Tomlin isnt as good as advertised.   He gets passes because he doesn't have a losing season and he will have wins like the one last week vs Buffalo, but if you wanna talk about the lack of change...you should start with him.    He has demonstrated his inability to learn from past mistakes many, many times.

And no, Im not saying Tomlin should be fired...but he is a major reason we are spinning tires year after year.

 

[Dcash4]

Rewatching this game, because apparently I am a glutton for punishment...

But we laugh (cry?) at how bad Chuks is, but boy....we better start talking about how bad Dotson is. Its....woof. I am hoping this gets better for him, but those "reports" in the off-season very well might have more legs than we thought. It's really bad so far. 

Trai Turner doesn't seem like he can move? Options are limited when your starting RG decides in the middle of the off-season that he needs to get surgery, but BJ Finney or Hausauner might be the gods honest better option right now. 

Also not seeing a lot of layering in the passing concepts. That has long been an issue of concept with Ben, I mean Mike Tomlin offenses. Either seems like everyone is in the route tree under 7 yards or everyones route doesnt break until after 15. Not a lot of middle ground or if X then Y. Just scaaaaaaaaan the field an pick your favorite matchup. 

Ben is Sam Darnold right now, and rightfully so to a point, in that he is seeing ghosts. Even without pressure, he is bailing too early. Put his eyes down on a 3rd down in the early second and if he hangs onto his second progression 'Muth is picking up a big ol chunk. There's pressure in his face, but he needs to slide not scramble. Pulls his eyes down, more pressure comes ...its over and his body pays the price. 

Okay. Im out. It's depressing. 

[warfelg]

15 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

but boy....we better start talking about how bad Dotson is. Its....woof. I am hoping this gets better for him, but those "reports" in the off-season very well might have more legs than we thought. It's really bad so far. 

Even a good player on a bad unit is going to look bad. Not saying he’s great. But it’s not easy to shine in a unit this bad. 

[Dcash4]

49 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Even a good player on a bad unit is going to look bad. Not saying he’s great. But it’s not easy to shine in a unit this bad. 

I definitely agree with that, but in terms of what I saw he didn’t just look bad by association, he was just flat out bad. No power, seemed gassed trying to get to the edge and just barely gave effort to even touch the guy, got blown up which caused a loss, and got stone walled pulling after seemingly not getting enough depth. 

1 quarter and a half into the game. It’s not good so far. I definitely give him the benefit of the doubt on the potential of just one bad game…but I’ll prob me watching a little more closely for him. 

[warfelg]

21 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I definitely agree with that, but in terms of what I saw he didn’t just look bad by association, he was just flat out bad. No power, seemed gassed trying to get to the edge and just barely gave effort to even touch the guy, got blown up which caused a loss, and got stone walled pulling after seemingly not getting enough depth. 

1 quarter and a half into the game. It’s not good so far. I definitely give him the benefit of the doubt on the potential of just one bad game…but I’ll prob me watching a little more closely for him. 

Mind you, and any retired OL would tell you this, when they pass block 60+% of the time their run blocking is going to end up being crap.  It's much less exhausting to run block than it is to pass block.  I'd imagine some of the run game issues and getting blown up is just pure exhaustion.  

[Dcash4]

13 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Mind you, and any retired OL would tell you this, when they pass block 60+% of the time their run blocking is going to end up being crap.  It's much less exhausting to run block than it is to pass block.  I'd imagine some of the run game issues and getting blown up is just pure exhaustion.  

This was 21 plays into the game. If he’s exhausted by then……

[turtle28]

A continuous down to me is the drops by the WRs or as @Steeler Hitman said, Dionte Johnson stopping in his route which led to an int. 
 

It was a problem last year & it continues to be a problem. 
 

Claypool has to catch that TD pass over the smaller CB. That was a huge play not made in the game. Ebron has to be better, same with DJ. 
 

Also, the offense will only get better if they have more of a commitment to the running game. Only 10 carries by Harris vs the Raiders is inexcusable especially when the game was close for most of the game.