Post Game Thoughts- Cardinals.

[SemperFeist]

3 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

On AJ Greene's touchdown, Breeland was horribly, HORRIBLY out of position.  I am hoping that his soft coverage was on him and not by design.

I think it’s both the player and coaching. And it’s been one of my main concerns about Zimmer’s defense for a few years. 

Breeland looks like his head is swimming. He looks like a player who is thinking too much instead of reacting, and it’s making him a step slower. And we’ve seen it plenty of times in the past few years with young and new players on the defense, especially at cornerback. 

I feel as though Zimmer asks way too much from his defenders, and it can take a couple of years for players to fully grasp what they’re supposed to do. And that’s a problem in today’s NFL when you need to rely on players who are signing short term deals in free agency, or you’re relying on rookies to contribute. 

[Nozizaki]

I would assume that analytics say the Vikings made the right call kicking the FG. Per ESPN, they had a 78.0% chance of winning before the FG attempt. This is accounting for all outcomes with 44 seconds left.

If they make the kick (better than 85% chance) as time expires the Cardinals have no opportunity to answer and the game is over. If the Vikings score a TD with any amount of time, Cardinals can still win (via a kickoff return TD, or offensive score).

It was first and 10, and they could've moved the ball forward, but they run the risk of losing yards and needing to spike the ball, turning the ball over, or having to rush a kick due to time constraints.

[vikingsrule]

19 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

I think it’s both the player and coaching. And it’s been one of my main concerns about Zimmer’s defense for a few years. 

Breeland looks like his head is swimming. He looks like a player who is thinking too much instead of reacting, and it’s making him a step slower. And we’ve seen it plenty of times in the past few years with young and new players on the defense, especially at cornerback. 

I feel as though Zimmer asks way too much from his defenders, and it can take a couple of years for players to fully grasp what they’re supposed to do. And that’s a problem in today’s NFL when you need to rely on players who are signing short term deals in free agency, or you’re relying on rookies to contribute. 

Or find vets who are familiar with what Zimmer does. That worked out well early on with Newman helping out young CBs and having a talent like a young Rhodes. Ultimately, the Vikes need to start investing early picks in CB again. Sheer talent can overcome shortcomings in learning a new system if the coaches know how to use it and typically Zimmer has gotten the most out of his CB group. Peterson has been okay but Breeland just doesnt look like he belongs. Alexander is just okay. There’s not enough early picks behind that group to want to move onto someone else. Boyd? Dantzler? 

[swede700]

1 hour ago, SteelKing728 said:

The missed kicks didn't help but this one is on coaching.

I expect myself to be saying that quite often this season.

I can't say it's on the coaching.  Sure, there were some times that a different decision could have been made, but that doesn't mean that a different outcome would have occurred.  This is purely on the kicker, as far as I'm concerned.  You can't miss a 37-yd FG and call yourself a NFL-level kicker.  

[swede700]

17 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

 Peterson has been okay but Breeland just doesnt look like he belongs.

That is Breeland in a nutshell.  As I recall, you live here in the KC area as well, so you should know that.  🤣  All Chiefs fans talk about how in the regular season, he's mostly a nothing-burger CB, it's only in the playoffs that he tends to make plays.  It's why they weren't all that concerned in losing him. 

[SemperFeist]

8 minutes ago, swede700 said:

You can't miss a 37-yd FG and call yourself a NFL-level kicker.  

It happens plenty of times. It’s not a gimme kick like people want to make it. There’s a reason the NFL moved back the extra point to a similar range. Because while very makable, there’s still the possibility of missing.

The true failure was the “good enough” mentality. Conceding on over 30 seconds without trying to get closer, or without putting the ball on the kicker’s preferred hash mark because the team was “close enough” is a loser’s thought process. What Zimmer did on that sequence was the equivalent of playing prevent defense in a one score game. 

While Joseph needs to carry the blame for missing the kick, the missed kick doesn’t excuse the atrocious clock and game management, once again, displayed by Mike Zimmer. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by SemperFeist

[KeithVikings28]

Actions reflect leadership. We’ve got a coach who likes to act tough but makes soft decisions. Time and time again we see Zimmer play it safe and lose us games. The team even knows it and now we expect to lose. No one should’ve been surprised about the missed FG. That is the type of team Zim has built and it’s time for him to go. I’ve said it before the guy isn’t a winner and we are now the Bengals under Marvin Lewis.

[SemperFeist]

I’ll say this final thought on the end of the game. 

A player’s responsibility is to execute. Joseph didn’t do that. But a coach’s responsibility is to put his players in the best possible situation to succeed, and Zimmer absolutely did not do that. 

[SemperFeist]

 

[swede700]

8 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

It happens plenty of times. It’s not a gimme kick like people want to make it. There’s a reason the NFL moved back the extra point to a similar range. Because while very makable, there’s still the possibility of missing.

The true failure was the “good enough” mentality. Conceding on over 30 seconds without trying to get closer, or without putting the ball on the kicker’s preferred hash mark because the team was “close enough” is a loser’s thought process. What Zimmer did on that sequence was the equivalent of playing prevent defense in a one score game. 

While Joseph needs to carry the blame for missing the kick, the missed kick doesn’t excuse the atrocious clock and game management, once again, displayed by Mike Zimmer. 

I can understand that, but there are also a lot of pitfalls that could have occurred while trying to get closer.  In the end, you should be able to trust your kicker...who kicked a 52 yarder earlier...to make a 37-yd FG.  On the other hand, if Jefferson catches a ball that was in his hands a few plays earlier, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.  

Further, in the post you just made, you indicate that he didn't put him in position to succeed.  I'm not sure, with any confidence, what would have put him in a better position to succeed.  The percentage chance increase in moving him in 5-7 yds is minimal, at best.  I can't agree with you on that point.

Edited September 20, 2021 by swede700

[SemperFeist]

7 minutes ago, swede700 said:

The percentage chance increase in moving him in 5-7 yds is minimal, at best.

Even minimal is still a better chance. Putting him on the hash mark that he’s most comfortable kicking from gives him a better chance. 

If he’s scared to let his offense continue to work up field because he’s worried about a mistake, then he has absolutely no confidence in his players, and he shouldn’t be coaching. 

[SteelKing728]

42 minutes ago, swede700 said:

I can't say it's on the coaching.  Sure, there were some times that a different decision could have been made, but that doesn't mean that a different outcome would have occurred.  This is purely on the kicker, as far as I'm concerned.  You can't miss a 37-yd FG and call yourself a NFL-level kicker.  

Hey, you seemed pretty confident that we would win this one. After watching them lose again, you still don't think its on coaching?

If you're playing only to get the Field Goal instead of putting the dagger through their heart, you deserve to lose. Its the same story over and over. The magic from 2015, 2017 and 2019 is over. Zimmer needs to be called out on it.

and I don't think he's a bad coach. I just think its time to move on when the season ends and we're sitting at yet another 10-15 range 1st round pick.

[vikingsrule]

42 minutes ago, swede700 said:

That is Breeland in a nutshell.  As I recall, you live here in the KC area as well, so you should know that.  🤣  All Chiefs fans talk about how in the regular season, he's mostly a nothing-burger CB, it's only in the playoffs that he tends to make plays.  It's why they weren't all that concerned in losing him. 

Nope never been to KC in my life. I live in River Falls, Wisconsin. 

[swede700]

Just now, SteelKing728 said:

Hey, you seemed pretty confident that we would win this one. After watching them lose again, you still don't think its on coaching?

If you're playing only to get the Field Goal instead of putting the dagger through their heart, you deserve to lose. Its the same story over and over. The magic from 2015, 2017 and 2019 is over. Zimmer needs to be called out on it.

and I don't think he's a bad coach. I just think its time to move on when the season ends and we're sitting at yet another 10-15 range 1st round pick.

I thought they would compete, not necessarily that they'd win...it's why I only put a 1 on the Pick 'em.  I understand the "dagger through the heart" mentality, but just having that mentality doesn't necessarily mean wins.  You can get burned too, ala the Seattle game last year.  Playing for the FG isn't playing not to lose...running out a prevent defense is playing not to lose.  People love the Harbaugh move last night when it works, but if it doesn't, then what?  Would people have second-guessed him to death?  Maybe, maybe not.  If Zimmer had played to get closer or to score the TD, and someone fumbled it, or Cousins threw a pick, would people have given credit to Zimmer for being "ballsy"?  Absolutely not.  He would have been torn to shreds.  

 

[swede700]

8 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

Nope never been to KC in my life. I live in River Falls, Wisconsin. 

OK...It must have been the other guy with your similar name.