SNF: KC @ BAL

[Blue]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

Almost as impressive as you reading the article in 15 seconds and not straight dismissing it with bias. 😉

Well, it would help if you would actually provide a link to the article.

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

6 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Thats a horrific way to evaluate it. My god man, dont do that! lol

 

I bet you went to Enron to ask them to evaulate their own business practices? You asked Trump to rate the presidents? You believe Kanye should decide the VMAs? 

Your argument style is whack. Trump, Enron, and Kanye are irrelevant and you’re just bringing them in here because my point has merit.

 

players know the playcall and their assignment on a play. PFF sees a play and says “well gee that one was a 4, and I swear it has nothing to do with the fact that I said this player would be a bust and he’s now good, and actually, the playcall is irrelevant”. It’s just armchair quarterbacks who managed to attach numbers to their confirmation bias and assumptions.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by ThatJaxxenGuy

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

Double post

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by ThatJaxxenGuy

[Scoundrel]

9 minutes ago, Blue said:

Bit of an unfair question as they lock their grades behind a paywall, but no, I suspect I would agree with at least a few of their grades.

My biggest issue (among many) with PFF is that they present themselves as experts when they are, objectively speaking, not. Not only are they totally ignorant of what the playcall is on a given play or what a given player's responsibilities are on a given play, there are examples of actual former players pointing out that PFF penalizes players for doing what they were supposed to do and doing it well, simply because PFF decided that player should have done something different on that play. The most common example is offensive line, but I've seen it for defensive players too.

All my questions are fair. If you think otherwise you’re a millennial probably and want a participation trophy for just positing on this site!!!! Good day sir!

[Matts4313]

2 minutes ago, Blue said:

Well, it would help if you would actually provide a link to the article.

I dont know how to copy and paste links apparently. 

https://mfootballanalytics.com/2020/04/06/which-qb-stats-are-the-most-important/

[Matts4313]

22 minutes ago, Blue said:

Bit of an unfair question as they lock their grades behind a paywall, but no, I suspect I would agree with at least a few of their grades.

My biggest issue (among many) with PFF is that they present themselves as experts when they are, objectively speaking, not.

They get paid for their opinion on football players after doing extensive film study. They employee former football players, coaches and scouts. 

They are, by very definition, experts.

Quote

Not only are they totally ignorant of what the playcall is on a given play or what a given player's responsibilities are on a given play,

They admit to this fact. They attempt to get all obtainable information on play call and design. 

Quote

there are examples of actual former players pointing out that PFF penalizes players for doing what they were supposed to do and doing it well, simply because PFF decided that player should have done something different on that play.

Obviously they are not perfect, but that doesnt invalidate their opinion. Football is off-script often, so its not a leap to assume a player should be able to adjust their decision making on the fly. 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Matts4313

[RedGold]

27 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

Of course you do. Want me to break down the scores for all your bdl players though?

Yes please,    But not because I want them 

[Scoundrel]

2 minutes ago, RedGold said:

Yes please,    But not because I want them 

Matt Ryan 27th ranked QB

[Matts4313]

10 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

Your argument style is whack. Trump, Enron, and Kanye are irrelevant and you’re just bringing them in here because my point has merit.

The hyperbole was that those were people "in the know" as well. A player playing football should not qualify them to rank all players just as trump being president doesnt mean he can rank presidents. 

The comment was in jest - but players are going to be inherently biased and mostly uniformed about their coworkers. Just look at their probowl and top 100 list. 

10 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

players know the playcall and their assignment on a play. PFF sees a play and says “well gee that one was a 4, and I swear it has nothing to do with the fact that I said this player would be a bust and he’s now good, and actually, the playcall is irrelevant”. It’s just armchair quarterbacks who managed to attach numbers to their confirmation bias and assumptions.

 

 

Players will find ways to gripe about anything - and former players are literally paid to create narratives. You know what makes a narrative? Drama. Such as "PFF gave grade X, but they were so wrong on this 1 play (out of 100) that their entire system is broken!"

 

Im not a shill for them, but they absolutely have value. I know this, because literally everyone involved with football pays them money for their opinions. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

let me simplify this for you guys:

PFF Grades = awful, don't use them as a primary source for your argument. 

PFF Statistics = great, use them if you have access to them.

[Matts4313]

Here is the entire list of players that I think will have a solid grasp at fully evaluating other players:

1. QBs

2. Mike LB

3. Strong Safety.

 

 

Thats pretty much it. Those are the only 3 positions that scout the entirety of the opposing unit. Id trust Jalen Ramesy's opinion on WRs. Id trust Zack Martins opinion on DTs. I wouldnt trust Jalen to tell me about Zack Martin or vice versa. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Matts4313

[RedGold]

3 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

Matt Ryan 27th ranked QB

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

I don't even see what the problem is. I posted a valid reason, or at least what I felt was a valid reason, why I don't think the Ravens scheme is that great.  Am I not supposed to do that just because the Ravens won a big game last night lol?

Improve at receiver, switch coordinators.  I don't think Greg Roman is a bad OC, but I think consistently relying so heavily on the run game to make everything work in the regular season causes problems for them in the playoffs when the quality of defense is generally higher (even when it comes to teams who aren't strong defensively in the regular season).  This is why, even though they have averaged over 150 Rushing YPG in the 4 playoff games, they haven't scored many points.  Yes, a couple of plays had they went the other way could have changed that, but generally speaking it would have helped a lot if they had a sustainable passing game.

I'm not saying it is an issue they can't overcome.  Again, they have a lot of talent and Lamar Jackson is a great QB.  But it really limits them, and I don't think it is reasonable to paint it as some ordinary flaw because a flawed passing attack is a much worse problem to have than a, say, flawed run defense.  This is why I think they should have made a bigger push to acquire Julio.  As it stands now I'd expect their receivers to get shutdown fairly easy in the postseason and that is just a talent issue as much as anything else.  

But to clarify, again, I could very well be wrong.  Ravens could easily prove me wrong.  And it could be they just had bad breaks in the playoffs.  We've seen it before.  However, I caution that there is only so long you can keep doing this before you make a change and it will have to start at OC if the results don't change.  

Fair points. I think they definitely tried to improve WR this offseason with Bateman and Watkins. Watkins may seem like a JAG but from a Ravens perspective, he's a competent veteran WR who can get open vs man coverage, so he's an upgrade. Based on his cap hit, I'm not sure Julio Jones was an option this offseason. The WR room isn't elite but it is improving. 

Getting rid of Roman is an option, I think that could serve Lamar well in the long run. I wonder how Lamar would look in a Kubiak/Shanahan type scheme. The problem is coaches who are good at really implementing it are hard to come by. 

Firing Roman is just a tough ask because he's been very successful here. It's not good to have a reputation that you fire successful coaches, because then it becomes a less attractive job for others. You might have a replacement in mind and fire Roman, and then the guy gets scooped by some other team. Replacing Roman wouldn't be as easy as you might think. Who do you have in mind?  

[Hunter2_1]

I like PFF's mission.

In a most basic example that I can think of, it seeks to prove that a QB who has thrown 3 easy completions 5 yards past the LOS should not be considered the same as a QB who has thrown 3 tough completions 20 yards past the LOS into a tight window.

Standard stats show both of these as essentially the same thing. PFF wants to show you that QB B was better over those 3 passes.

 

Now, whether you think they achieve this is up to you to decide...

[RayLew52]

2 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

 

I think Seattle is a prime example of people NOT criticizing a team that hasn't accomplished anything in years simply because of their previous pedigree. I mean, we just saw Russell Wilson's offense score 0 points in the 2nd half/OT against a horrible defense, except on a completely broken play in the 3rd quarter - and yet how many people are waking up this morning ready to criticize him for that? He was 1 inch away from taking a game-ending safety on a play where he sacked himself!

It's because Russell has won a Super Bowl. It's almost like a get out of media narrative jail card..