SNF: KC @ BAL

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

17 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

I like PFF's mission.

In a most basic example that I can think of, it seeks to prove that a QB who has thrown 3 easy completions 5 yards past the LOS should not be considered the same as a QB who has thrown 3 tough completions 20 yards past the LOS into a tight window.

Standard stats show both of these as essentially the same thing. PFF wants to show you that QB B was better over those 3 passes.

 

Now, whether you think they achieve this is up to you to decide...

They don't. Their grading is ridiculous and a total sham unless you can truly convince me that 1 person watching a game is able to accurately grade every single player on every single play AND THEN have those grades completed + a full write-up of the game done within an hour of the actual live game ending.

because that's what PFF does and then they convince you that their grades are somehow accurate.

Just now, RayLew52 said:

It's because Russell has won a Super Bowl. It's almost like a get out of media narrative jail card..

Only applies selectively though. Joe Flacco won a Superbowl and (rightfully) never got that same card. I imagine IF Lamar wins a Superbowl, his "get out of jail free" card will last him approximately until week 1 of the following season.

[Ray Reed]

Lmao Tyreek Hill mad online because our safety complimented our #4 corner for a good rep

[y*so*blu]

Let's recap: the Ravens beat one of the best teams in the NFL led by a QB who had never lost in September, despite early turnovers and a plethora of injuries.

I'm repeating this because it looks like the whole point of the thread was forgotten several pages ago.

[Ray Reed]

6 minutes ago, y*so*blu said:

Let's recap: the Ravens beat one of the best teams in the NFL led by a QB who had never lost in September, despite early turnovers and a plethora of injuries.

I'm repeating this because it looks like the whole point of the thread was forgotten several pages ago.

You’re doing God’s work.

[43M]

2 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

let me simplify this for you guys:

PFF Grades = awful, don't use them as a primary source for your argument. 

PFF Statistics = great, use them if you have access to them.

100%.

Anyone who has seen their grading system knows its awful.

Doesnt mean their grades are never in line with reality, but they are way off with some players, especially DB and OLine. 

Ill never forget the year they had Willie Colon as a top 3 RT when he was laughably bad all year.   

[TecmoSuperJoe]

6 hours ago, Chiefer said:

Are you saying the refs didn’t impose their will in that game?

The Zebras flexing was still insignificant next to the power of the La Le Li Lo Lu South. 

You aren't blaming the loss on the officiating crew right? Chiefs just got their ***** kicked by the Buccaneers. It's that simple.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, Ray Reed said:

Lmao Tyreek Hill mad online because our safety complimented our #4 corner for a good rep

Y I K E S 

[Norm]

3 hours ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

Your argument style is whack. Trump, Enron, and Kanye are irrelevant and you’re just bringing them in here because my point has merit.

 

players know the playcall and their assignment on a play. PFF sees a play and says “well gee that one was a 4, and I swear it has nothing to do with the fact that I said this player would be a bust and he’s now good, and actually, the playcall is irrelevant”. It’s just armchair quarterbacks who managed to attach numbers to their confirmation bias and assumptions.

 

 

I never liked pff but once I started watching those dude's do some podcasts, now I just laugh at it. Those poindexters don't know ****

[MWil23]

1 hour ago, Ray Reed said:

Lmao Tyreek Hill mad online because our safety complimented our #4 corner for a good rep

In his defense, he’s a human underwear stain

[Matts4313]

2 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

They don't. Their grading is ridiculous and a total sham unless you can truly convince me that 1 person watching a game is able to accurately grade every single player on every single play AND THEN have those grades completed + a full write-up of the game done within an hour of the actual live game ending.

Good things thats not what they do.

Quote

because that's what PFF does and then they convince you that their grades are somehow accurate.

Their instant analysis and there final grades are two separate things. You are combining them. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Matts4313

[Norm]

3 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

They get paid for their opinion on football players after doing extensive film study. They employee former football players, coaches and scouts. 

Idk where I land on all this but

Getting paid for something doesn't make you good at it. Is SAS a football expert?

I'm not sure it's as extensive as stated with how fast they put them out.

I'm totally probably off here but whenever I've looked before for who does the grades, there's plenty of people that have zero history of playing or coaching. At list of the employee lists I've seen posted when this has come up before. That's not the end of the world, you can break some tape and know what's going on without an extensive background but still. I never know what's actually true with pff because you hear everything both ways and I'm not sure what the facts are

 

[Matts4313]

4 minutes ago, Norm said:

Idk where I land on all this but

Getting paid for something doesn't make you good at it. Is SAS a football expert?

SAS is an entertainer. I have no clue what he *actually* knows, because he is paid to be a loud mouth moron. 

4 minutes ago, Norm said:

I'm not sure it's as extensive as stated with how fast they put them out.

They put out instant analysist/reactions through out games. There official grades are done by 3 analyst individually grading the game. 

I dont pay for their service but I believe most the detailed stuff comes out a few days after the game.

4 minutes ago, Norm said:

I'm totally probably off here but whenever I've looked before for who does the grades, there's plenty of people that have zero history of playing or coaching. At list of the employee lists I've seen posted when this has come up before. That's not the end of the world, you can break some tape and know what's going on without an extensive background but still. I never know what's actually true with pff because you hear everything both ways and I'm not sure what the facts are

 

Yeah I dont know their employee list, but I do know I have read reports of teams sending their internal analyst/FO/Scouts to the PFF home office for training. And that training goes both ways - they teach teams their methodology and NFL personal teach PFF how to better watch tape and what not. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

10 minutes ago, Norm said:

Idk where I land on all this but

Getting paid for something doesn't make you good at it. Is SAS a football expert?

I'm not sure it's as extensive as stated with how fast they put them out.

I'm totally probably off here but whenever I've looked before for who does the grades, there's plenty of people that have zero history of playing or coaching. At list of the employee lists I've seen posted when this has come up before. That's not the end of the world, you can break some tape and know what's going on without an extensive background but still. I never know what's actually true with pff because you hear everything both ways and I'm not sure what the facts are

 

Well they do have former players on at their company working for them in recent years. Funny enough Zac Robinson worked there for a while, and is now on the Rams coaching staff I think. Also, PFF now has all 32 team as a client for them. Apparently they provide other data not available to the public. I'm sure some of that has to now do with Cris Collinsworth having purchased the company. Some coaches have actually gone in and been very impressed with the operation they have going on there. Mike McCarthy was one, and another was Chip Kelly who in the past publicly denounced them, but later had his mind changed. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by TecmoSuperJoe

[Norm]

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

SAS is an entertainer. I have no clue what he *actually* knows, because he is paid to be a loud mouth moron. 

This is a cop out. SAS sucks but there's nothing backing PFF grades. They just showed up and went HEY WE DO GRADES LISTEN TO US, and this is from a guy who was subbing before the price went way up. They've definitely gotten more "talent" in that business now but at the beginning, there was no check on it. And really there still isn't. We have no clue what they actually know either. They refuse to submit their game play log grades, which are obviously on some sort of spreadsheet because they don't want scrutiny. Not exactly something that adds any trust in my book. If you're so expert, submit all that with down distance/time stamps. But they don't....

Does that not bother you even a bit?

 

(If they finally started doing this I apologize, I have not been in the pff sucks argument in a bit lol)

[Norm]

6 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

SAS is an entertainer. I have no clue what he *actually* knows, because he is paid to be a loud mouth moron. 

They put out instant analysist/reactions through out games. There official grades are done by 3 analyst individually grading the game. 

I dont pay for their service but I believe most the detailed stuff comes out a few days after the game.

Yeah I dont know their employee list, but I do know I have read reports of teams sending their internal analyst/FO/Scouts to the PFF home office for training. And that training goes both ways - they teach teams their methodology and NFL personal teach PFF how to better watch tape and what not. 

Yeah I think they do quick grades then the a22 more extensive stuff later on. I've given them credit for that, I think I corrected it on here just the other day too. 

 

I guess everyone says they have coaches and etc etc etc but I never hear who those people are. But that is that it is.

Last part is interesting, teams are obviously going to trust their internal scouting. They also scout the entire league themselves without knowing exactly what responsibilities are but I have to believe on average they still know it far better. I guess what's interesting is why teams would help PFF break tape, what's the point?