Matts4313 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Norm said: Does that not bother you even a bit? Not really. I am more interested in the results than the process. Just like most forms of entertainments or non-essential things in my life. Same reason I dont bash ESPN's QBR. People hate it because ESPN wont give out their 'secret formula'. They call it a sham, made up, stupid. I call it highly correlated to wins and one of the most accurate stats in football. I dont need to know how they get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Norm said: I guess everyone says they have coaches and etc etc etc but I never hear who those people are. But that is that it is. McCarthy and a bunch of coaches (including some from the packers) went there for the summer ~2 years ago. (i think you are a packers fan) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said: Well they do have former players on at their company working for them in recent years. Funny enough Zac Robinson worked there for a while, and is now on the Rams coaching staff I think. Also, PFF now has all 32 team as a client for them. Apparently they provide other data not available to the public. I'm sure some of that has to now do with Cris Collinsworth having purchased the company. Some coaches have actually gone in and been very impressed with the operation they have going on there. Mike McCarthy was one, and another was Chip Kelly who in the past publicly denounced them, but later had his mind changed. Teams hiring PFF doesn't surprise me. It's way cheaper to sub to them, by far, than it is to hire even cheap as interns just to chart all the non grade stuff they do. I'm not saying that's all it is, but if I was in an NFL scouting dept I'd have it for just that. But maybe NFL teams have to pay more than whatever the premium package is, but I'd doubt that too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Not really. I am more interested in the results than the process. Just like most forms of entertainments or non-essential things in my life. Same reason I dont bash ESPN's QBR. People hate it because ESPN wont give out their 'secret formula'. They call it a sham, made up, stupid. I call it highly correlated to wins and one of the most accurate stats in football. I dont need to know how they get there. It's just like QBR though, almost. They won't show us how it's applied. We know the process. And QBR is bad. If PFF grades are so good and everyone uses them in the league and the expert football people do then, show us, just one damn week ever snap grade. But they won't. So you see the results, but you have no idea what grade they applied other than a few snaps here and there. That's silly to me. Oh here's this Mathematical equation and the results, cool. What numbers did you put into that to get it, "oh you don't need to know that just trust us were experts." They obviously have that damn info. I dont understand why everyone is like nah that's cool. I trust them because you get a damn end number but how they got there is irrelevant... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: McCarthy and a bunch of coaches (including some from the packers) went there for the summer ~2 years ago. (i think you are a packers fan) I am yeah and I like Mac. I'm not saying nobody in the NFL would ever use it for anything or that nobody in the NFL accepts it. I guess you know what my beef is from the last post, that's where I'm at. Show us by snap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 (edited) Jacked from @TecmoSuperJoein the Zach Wilson thread Zach Wilson PFF passing grade this week: 54.4 Patrick Mahomes: 52.3 edit, I think that has to do with the largest negative grade they can give to a play though, I think? Edited September 20, 2021 by Norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, Norm said: If PFF grades are so good and everyone uses them in the league and the expert football people do then, show us, just one damn week ever snap grade. From a consumer perspective I understand your complaint. From a business perspective, why in the world would they ever do this? All it does is open up areas to negatively affect their revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, Norm said: I am yeah and I like Mac. I'm not saying nobody in the NFL would ever use it for anything or that nobody in the NFL accepts it. I guess you know what my beef is from the last post, that's where I'm at. Show us by snap I want to say your current LB coach was one of them that went, but dont quote me on that. Just now, Norm said: Jacked from @TecmoSuperJoein the Zach Wilson thread Zach Wilson PFF passing grade this week: 54.4 Patrick Mahomes: 52.3 Lets see if it gets adjusted and/or explained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Just now, Matts4313 said: From a consumer perspective I understand your complaint. From a business perspective, why in the world would they ever do this? All it does is open up areas to negatively affect their revenue. My counter is that if they're so expert at what they do, what's their fear? Yes it will be nitpicked but they should be able to defend it if they have all these ex football minds in there I guess now we're back to, is this supposed to be the best publicly available info possible, or they just want everyone to think it is to max profits, which I think it's the latter. There's no competition so they don't need to justify anything. Just annoys me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Its all downside and no upside. Thats what they would fear. Your asking them to play russian roulette with their income stream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Its all downside and no upside. Thats what they would fear. Your asking them to play russian roulette with their income stream. So you're admitting that tons of if is obviously wrong. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 (edited) Before I'm done, it has no ******* clue who you're lined up across from. Which is a problem in itself. #4 CBs grade higher because they aren't put on the island in studs. Stuff like that. I'm not saying there's an answer for it, but it makes plenty of players look better. It's how crappy OTs and whatnot that are getting help sometimes grade much higher. Or a center flanked by stud guards that happened in GB and NO over the years that I recall. I'm not expecting it to be perfect, I just don't make excuses for it just because they have some ex players and some NFL people spoke nicely. It's flawed imo, pretty much flawed too much for me to care unless it agrees with whatever point in making that day lol Edited September 20, 2021 by Norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 52 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Good things thats not what they do. Their instant analysis and there final grades are two separate things. You are combining them. they literally had the "highest rated players" out last night an hour after the game.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Norm said: So you're admitting that tons of if is obviously wrong. Thanks Im admitting there is no benefit for their company. Just now, Norm said: Before I'm done, it has no ******* clue who you're lined up across from. Which is a problem in itself. #4 CBs grade higher because they aren't put on the island in studs. Stuff like that. I'm not saying there's an answer for it, but it makes plenty of players look better. It's how crappy OTs and whatnot that are getting help sometimes grade much higher. Or a center flanked by stud guards that happened in GB and NO over the years that I recall. I'm not expecting it to be perfect, I just don't make excuses for it Thats what DVOA is for. Gotta use all these resources in conjunction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said: they literally had the "highest rated players" out last night an hour after the game.... Which is the instant analysis and not the final grades.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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