Blue Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Just now, Matts4313 said: What so hard to believe? Coach Billy B does it on youtube like every single week, why would he not correct an analyst if they asked? Because that's an obvious example of giving away a competitive advantage to your opponents, lol. But let's pretend for a moment that I believe this. Do you genuinely think all 32 teams are fact-checking and correcting PFF's grades every week? Telling them every single play they ran, what every single player's assignments were on every single play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Just now, 43M said: PFF always has ads looking for new analysts, and Ive read the PD, and while it asks for people with a football background, it focuses more heavily on statistical prowess rather than an understanding of the game. I think thats why they excel at advanced stats, but their grades are very flawed. PFF has both qualitative and quantitative experts. So it would make sense they need stat nerds as well. And expert in this instance would be people who are trained (and employed) in the general field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Blue said: Because that's an obvious example of giving away a competitive advantage to your opponents, lol. Explaining to an analyst what a play was supposed to do in a game thats over is a competitive advantage? cmon 2 minutes ago, Blue said: But let's pretend for a moment that I believe this. Do you genuinely think all 32 teams are fact-checking and correcting PFF's grades every week? Telling them every single play they ran, what every single player's assignments were on every single play? No. But I do think they get feedback on most every piece of information they put out. The feedback comes from fans, teams, drunk players on twitter at 3am, ESPN, etc etc. But even if the information isnt 100% accurate (which it is not) that doesnt make it useless. Its flawed but its still pretty decent most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Explaining to an analyst what a play was supposed to do in a game thats over is a competitive advantage? cmon No. But I do think they get feedback on most every piece of information they put out. The feedback comes from fans, teams, drunk players on twitter at 3am, ESPN, etc etc. But even if the information isnt 100% accurate (which it is not) that doesnt make it useless. Its flawed but its still pretty decent most of the time. They have to play somebody the next week, smartypants. It doesn't matter if it's most. It is, in fact, useless because if even one team doesn't share that information, then you're no longer grading players on equal footing. Say that the centers for the Bengals and Ravens are both late to snap the ball and the right tackles for those teams get flagged for false starts because of it. If you know what the Bengals' snap count was supposed to be and not the Ravens', the Ravens' right tackle will get a lower grade for doing the exact same thing. And I have seen at least one account of a coach complaining about how PFF was penalizing his team's right tackle for false starts that were the fault of the center snapping the ball late, and when they get rid of the center the following offseason, the tackle's grade magically went up. This stuff happens and PFF has zero way of accounting for it. Edited September 21, 2021 by Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Blue said: They have to play somebody the next week, smartypants. It doesn't matter if it's most. It is, in fact, useless because if even one team doesn't share that information, then you're no longer grading players on equal footing. Say that the centers for the Bengals and Ravens are both late to snap the ball and the right tackles for those teams get flagged for false starts because of it. If you know what the Bengals' snap count was supposed to be and not the Ravens', the Ravens' right tackle will get a lower grade for doing the exact same thing. And I have seen at least one account of a coach complaining about how PFF was penalizing his team's right tackle for false starts that were the fault of the center snapping the ball late, and when they get rid of the center the following offseason, the tackle's grade magically went up. This stuff happens and PFF has zero way of accounting for it. Honestly I dont care enough about PFF to keep up the back and forth. I just completely disagree with your "basically they are fans" take. Because no fans have the access to information nor the dedicated time and resources to actually do what they do. And last I heard, Andy Ried doesnt pay "Blue" $15 grand a year for his stats and opinions. But he does pay PFF for theirs, because its an expert source. Edited September 21, 2021 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Honestly I dont care enough about PFF to keep up the back and forth. I just completely disagree with your "basically they are fans" take. Because no fans have the access to information nor the dedicated time and resources to actually do what they do. And last I heard, Andy Ried doesnt pay "Blue" $15 grand a year for his stats and opinions. But he does pay PFF for theirs, because its an expert source. I have access to as much information as PFF does, 100%. It is just wild to me that you will write off their immediate post-game grades as "viral marketing" but give zero thought to the fact that their claims of expert analysis are exactly the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Blue said: I have access to as much information as PFF does, 100%. lmao. Thats like me saying Gordan Ramsey isnt an expert because I have access to 100% of the groceries that he does. And beyond how silly that is, you actually *dont* have the same information. At most you have access to the all-22 and expert options from analyst, like PFF. Edited September 21, 2021 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Just now, Matts4313 said: lmao. Thats like me saying Gordan Ramsey isnt an expert because I have access to 100% of the groceries that he does. And beyond how silly that is, you actually *dont* have the same information. At most you have access to the all-22 and expect options from analyst, like PFF. Gee, that's actually a really great example of how Gordon Ramsey is an expert and you're not because he has years of actual experience and training in the field and you don't. Don't think that proves what you think it does, bro. So many years ago, around 2014 or so, I paid for a year subscription from PFF. Was watching a Bucs-Falcons game, saw the QB force a pass to a receiver, think it was Mike Evans in his rookie year. Cornerback breaks up the pass, knocks the ball away with his hand, textbook pass deflection. I made a note of the player, think is Desmond Trufant, because it was a really good play. I go to check the PFF stats later. They have him down for 0 pass breakups. I go, okay, maybe they haven't updated it yet. Go back a few days later, still nothing. Never changed. I may not have a background in football or anything. I don't know the plays they're running or what each player's coverage responsibility is. But if PFF can't even credit a player with a clear pass deflection, then why should I take any of their "analysis" seriously. I know, that's just one example, and everybody makes mistakes. But there comes a point where the mistakes pile up and you either keep making excuses for them or you recognize they don't actually know what they're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Blue said: Gee, that's actually a really great example of how Gordon Ramsey is an expert and you're not because he has years of actual experience and training in the field and you don't. Don't think that proves what you think it does, bro. (so do PFF analyst and guess what, you dont) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: (so do PFF analyst and guess what, you dont) Name one PFF analyst who has years of NFL playing or coaching experience. Edited September 21, 2021 by Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Blue said: Name one PFF analyst who has years of NFL playing or coaching experience. You do realize those are different jobs, that require completely different skill sets, right? Edited September 21, 2021 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) "Name one battery engineer at tesla who worked in car sales/mechanic/etc".... Different skills to do the job. You dont have to be a leader of men or run s 4.3 40 to analyze film. I mean, would it make you fully buy in if Hue Jackson worked there? Or some DB who scored a 6 on the wonderlic? You dont have to be a coach or player to breakdown film or be an analyst. Edited September 21, 2021 by Matts4313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 22 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: You do realize those are different jobs, that require completely different skill sets, right? So, you can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Blue said: So, you can't. Does collinsworth count? I dont know there staff because I dont care enough about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Does collinsworth count? I dont know there staff because I dont care enough about them. No, Collinsworth has nothing to do with the grades or analysis. Remember, PFF and their formula has been around for about a decade and Collinsworth is basically just an investor (since about 2014, earliest as far I can tell). Edited September 21, 2021 by Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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