Changing the rules to QBs sliding?

[Jakuvious]

I can't believe there's enough misunderstanding of this rule that no one has posted this yet.

The slide is NOT a QB rule. It's a runner rule. It doesn't actually even have to be a slide, that's just the most common way to do it. Any runner acting in a way that gives up on the play gets the same protection. We don't see if often for other players because they want to fight for yards. But it's the same rule that allows defenders to go to the ground or slide or take a knee on game ending turnovers and not get hit.

Quote

 

(d) when a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet; or Note: Defenders are required to treat a sliding runner as they would a runner who is down by contact.

(1) A defender must pull up when a runner begins a feet-first slide. This does not mean that all contact by a defender is illegal. If a defender has already committed himself, and the contact is unavoidable, it is not a foul unless the defender commits some other act, such as helmet-to-helmet contact or by driving his forearm or shoulder into the head or neck area of the runner.

(2) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

(e) when a runner is out of bounds, or declares himself down by falling to the ground, or kneeling, and making no effort to advance;

 

The rule is as far and thorough as it needs to be. If you want to argue about the way refs interpret parts 1 and 2 of the rule in terms of each player's responsibility there, that's one thing. But the rule is not what many people are suggesting it is (a QB protection) and it already does what many people want it to do (require a player to slide early enough.)

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/10_Rule7_BallInPlay_DeadBall_Scrimm.pdf

It's even pretty clear which part of this Kiko violated, too. It wasn't necessarily just the contact, but how he drove his shoulder into Flacco's helmet.

[cddolphin]

1 hour ago, CriminalMind said:

I prefer no protection.

Same but sometimes she can be really insistent. 

23 minutes ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Just making QB running illegal.

Nah, that would be like cutting off your hand to prevent calluses. Running QBs definitely have an advantage when it comes to protections. How many times have we seen defenders pull up last second when the QB is running for the sideline to avoid a big hit, only for the QB to bluff out an extra couple of yards. We've also seen the other outcome, a defender wanting to avoid that and hits him at or near the sideline, only for a flag to be tossed.. it's simply a part of the game now, and it will never go back. It was a valid flag, regardless of Kiko's intent.

[Jakuvious]

1 hour ago, CriminalMind said:

I prefer no protection.

You cross the LOS or move out of the pocket, your a runner.

Beware

This is already how it works. They get the same protections that runners do, and that's it. See above.

[lancerman]

12 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

This is already how it works. They get the same protections that runners do, and that's it. See above.

It's never enforced the same for RB's 

[Jakuvious]

2 minutes ago, lancerman said:

It's never enforced the same for RB's 

How often do you see a RB give himself up on a play?

Any RB who thinks that they're worth a damn isn't sliding feet first, is driving a shoulder into a defender rather than walking out of bounds, and is almost always pushing for more yards. If RBs started sliding feet first, yeah, it would be enforced the same. But it makes so much less sense for them to. The only situation I can honestly think of where runners are giving themselves up like that is late game plays to stay in bounds or stay out of the end zone, but those are fairly rare occurrences.

It's like technically, a RB on a pitch can throw the ball away and avoid a loss of yards. But that's never going to happen because there is such a mentality and skillset difference between positions. That doesn't mean that rule isn't fairly enforced though.

[lancerman]

6 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

How often do you see a RB give himself up on a play?

Any RB who thinks that they're worth a damn isn't sliding feet first, is driving a shoulder into a defender rather than walking out of bounds, and is almost always pushing for more yards. If RBs started sliding feet first, yeah, it would be enforced the same. But it makes so much less sense for them to. The only situation I can honestly think of where runners are giving themselves up like that is late game plays to stay in bounds or stay out of the end zone, but those are fairly rare occurrences.

It's like technically, a RB on a pitch can throw the ball away and avoid a loss of yards. But that's never going to happen because there is such a mentality and skillset difference between positions. That doesn't mean that rule isn't fairly enforced though.

Then it's a bs rule that really only applies to QB's

[Joe_is_the_best]

To anyone wondering, yes, driving your shoulder into someones head while they're sliding is illegal and dirty. He didn't make any attempt to let up or lessen the blow. Quite the opposite actually. I would venture to say he saw a chance to take the QB out and took it.

Like Jakuvious said, the sliding rule applies to all ball-carriers. For example, a DB has a game-winning interception and slides down, thus giving himself up. Sure, it's expected for RB's and WR's to fight for yards. Doesn't mean the rule doesn't apply to them.

[Danger]

3 minutes ago, Joe_is_the_best said:

To anyone wondering, yes, driving your shoulder into someones head while they're sliding is illegal and dirty. He didn't make any attempt to let up or lessen the blow. Quite the opposite actually.

No he absolutely did, you can see that he pulled his forearm in close to body rather than continuing to stick it out further. He absolutely was trying to let up. 

The only question is, was there really not enough time for him to react and not actually go low on him.

[O'Doyle Rules]

It was a dirty hit. Then moment Flacco slides down kiko lowers his shoulder even more and hit's him right in the head. 

[Jakuvious]

55 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Then it's a bs rule that really only applies to QB's

Not at all. What do you expect them to do? Say you can hit a player no matter how they're behaving? A QB kneel falls under the same umbrella of rules. Should kneeling QBs be able to be hit? When WRs go to the ground untouched while making a catch, do you want to open it up to LBs being able to dive shoulder-first on top of them instead of just touching them down?

It is perfectly reasonable to give players a way to willingly end the play. It is important for safety. The fact that primarily QBs USE the rule does not make the rule itself biased or unfair. If a ball carrier has given up, the defense should have to respect that.

[footbull3196]

Definitely agree with OP.  The first situation that comes to mind was when Trent Green got a concussion in the season opener against the Bengals in 06.  The NFL correctly ruled that no fine would be given to the Bengals player that hit Green, but it was literally only a debate because he was a quarterback and happened to be entering his slide.  If it was any other runner, nobody would have considered it a hit, it would have just been "part of the game"

[winitall]

3 hours ago, Raves said:

Can Running backs slide to avoid being hit?  Once a QB passes the LOS they are considered a runner just like a RB with all the same rules applying.  Don't want your QB getting hit while running, don't let him run.  Want to use your QBs athleticism and size to run, expect him to take hits like a RB, getting rid of sliding means that these type of plays and the judgement whether the defensive player already started his hit before the slide, did the QB sliding change the location of the hit, etc become moot.

 

Yes, they can slide to avoid getting hit.  The rule applies the same to everyone.  It's the same reason when a defensive player picks off a pass to seal the game and slides he can't get rocked by an angry offensive lineman.

[Malik]

5 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

I can't believe there's enough misunderstanding of this rule that no one has posted this yet.

The slide is NOT a QB rule. It's a runner rule. It doesn't actually even have to be a slide, that's just the most common way to do it. Any runner acting in a way that gives up on the play gets the same protection. We don't see if often for other players because they want to fight for yards. But it's the same rule that allows defenders to go to the ground or slide or take a knee on game ending turnovers and not get hit.

The rule is as far and thorough as it needs to be. If you want to argue about the way refs interpret parts 1 and 2 of the rule in terms of each player's responsibility there, that's one thing. But the rule is not what many people are suggesting it is (a QB protection) and it already does what many people want it to do (require a player to slide early enough.)

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/10_Rule7_BallInPlay_DeadBall_Scrimm.pdf

It's even pretty clear which part of this Kiko violated, too. It wasn't necessarily just the contact, but how he drove his shoulder into Flacco's helmet.

The game-to-game enforcement of the rule is pretty awful. QBs frequently wait to very last moment in order to bait contact to get a flag and they usually outside of 2 or 3 guys. I think the rule needs to be rewritten as I have zero faith in referees to enforce it correctly. Something along of the lines of having the give themselves up before entering a space where a defender can hit them.

[jrry32]

I am fine with the rule as is. I agree with those who think a QB should be penalized for faking like he's going out of bounds or sliding.

[Jakuvious]

32 minutes ago, Malik said:

The game-to-game enforcement of the rule is pretty awful. QBs frequently wait to very last moment in order to bait contact to get a flag and they usually outside of 2 or 3 guys. I think the rule needs to be rewritten as I have zero faith in referees to enforce it correctly. Something along of the lines of having the give themselves up before entering a space where a defender can hit them.

Pretty much already has that.

Quote

(2) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

Everything that anyone has called for to be a rule in this thread is seriously already in the rule. What it all comes down to is a disagreement of what constitutes imminent contact as opposed to avoidable contact. The rule says the runner needs to start soon enough. It applies to everyone, not just QBs. There are no special protections for QBs as runners. It already excuses contact if the defender can't avoid it by the time of the slide. These are all the things that everyone in this thread wants (except that one guy who wants no QB running.)

Now like I said, questioning the enforcement of this is fine. But honestly, there's no form of this rule that isn't going to leave in subjectivity on the part of the refs, and such situations will always lead to disagreement and controversy. Your suggestion, saying a player has to give themselves up before entering a space where they can be hit, just shifts the bar. There's still going to be disagreement on what constitutes "a space where a defender can hit them." And even that may not have changed the Kiko play because the ultimate bit that really did him in was the shoulder contact to Flacco's helmet.

If some think Kiko couldn't have pulled up, I can sympathize with that opinion, though I disagree. But that discussion is being held throughout the forum in like half a dozen threads anyway. The premise of this thread is changing the rule, but no one has actually posted a rule change. Just things they think aren't in the rulebook that actually already are.