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On 9/22/2021 at 2:18 PM, Jags said:

I believe the answer to this question is still playing at Clemson right now. Ross will be coming out next year and hopefully becoming acclimated with his former collegiate QB. He has the ability to be a true number 1 WR as in someone who will get consistent separation, make those over the middle catches to convert short 3rd downs, win 50/50 balls consistently, and force double coverage in order for the other WRs to finally thrive at their respective roles. It is a matter of time.

If we look at free agency next year, the 2 big names showing up on the list are Allen Robinson and Davante Adams. Both true number one WRs that can do the things listed above consistently. Some of the dark horses that could potentially be numbers ones, but either it is a risk or they may not truly make it to FA is: Christ Godwin, Courtland Sutton, Michael Gallup, Ju-Ju Smith-Schuster, and Antonio Brown. Vets that could easily fill a number 2/3 WR role are: Sammy Watkins, A.J Green, Will Fuller, Jamison Crowder, and T.Y Hilton.

I’m mostly with you that I think the answer is one of these first round rookies. It’s just a matter if we’re at at a slot that it makes sense to draft them.

In reality, we should probably let Chark walk and replace him unless he really turns it on as the season goes along. Swapping him for a top 20 with top 15 potential WR makes a large difference in the group. Add that kind of guy, have Jones as the #2, and Viska and Tryon as the #3/4 guys and it isn’t a half bad group. Obviously there’s an issue of Jones maintaining his level of play as he gets further into his 30’s, but if you were to just take a snapshot of our WRs as their talent is right now, I’d be much more comfortable with that.

I’d really like it if we actually went big on this and got a vet and then went after one of the big name rookies, though. It’d be cool to not just have a mid-level WR group but to truly have a great group to work with. Give Trevor his own Harrison, Wayne, Clark and Stokley quad set of receiving options. 

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Could a few guys team up to help me understand something. What is this WR role that Urban is looking for? Better yet, who in the NFL could effectively and consistently play that position?

 

I have seen talk about it being a Percy Harvin type of role (which lead him to being upset about Toney not being there), but what exactly does this role entail?

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5 hours ago, Jags said:

Could a few guys team up to help me understand something. What is this WR role that Urban is looking for? Better yet, who in the NFL could effectively and consistently play that position?

 

I have seen talk about it being a Percy Harvin type of role (which lead him to being upset about Toney not being there), but what exactly does this role entail?

Basically a fast guy who is dangerous in space.  Seems like this is why he wanted Toney and also why they drafted ETN.  I'm not sure that is really what we need.   I'd rather have a wr that can win some 50/50 balls down the field because of Trevor's big arm.  I think Allen Robinson would be a nice fit.  As for the 2022 draft, I'm not really familiar with the top wr prospects yet, but I wouldn’t be opposed to taking a wr at this point.   We do seem to lack weapons.

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45 minutes ago, Charles said:

Basically a fast guy who is dangerous in space.  Seems like this is why he wanted Toney and also why they drafted ETN.  I'm not sure that is really what we need.   I'd rather have a wr that can win some 50/50 balls down the field because of Trevor's big arm.  I think Allen Robinson would be a nice fit.  As for the 2022 draft, I'm not really familiar with the top wr prospects yet, but I wouldn’t be opposed to taking a wr at this point.   We do seem to lack weapons.

We lack alot of things but a franchise QB. 

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On 10/3/2021 at 6:49 AM, Jags said:

Could a few guys team up to help me understand something. What is this WR role that Urban is looking for? Better yet, who in the NFL could effectively and consistently play that position?

 

I have seen talk about it being a Percy Harvin type of role (which lead him to being upset about Toney not being there), but what exactly does this role entail?

The Harvin role is a guy who you can move all over the field and do other things with; run him out of the backfield, split him into the slot. Alvin Kumara is the main guy in the league that does it. It's ETN for us though, based on his college game, he's exactly that player. Shenault and Austin might be able to do some of it. 

It's not the main role that the receiving group is missing though, it's more just the big play #1 that we need. The Jimmy Smith, Allen Robinson type guy that you can count on every game.

 

The Harvin role is more like the #3, #4 or maybe even #5 receiving option for the team, depending on how good said player is. 

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On 10/3/2021 at 1:19 PM, Charles said:

Basically a fast guy who is dangerous in space.  Seems like this is why he wanted Toney and also why they drafted ETN.  I'm not sure that is really what we need.   I'd rather have a wr that can win some 50/50 balls down the field because of Trevor's big arm.  I think Allen Robinson would be a nice fit.  As for the 2022 draft, I'm not really familiar with the top wr prospects yet, but I wouldn’t be opposed to taking a wr at this point.   We do seem to lack weapons.

Sounds like ETN fits the described role very well.

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16 minutes ago, Jags said:

Sounds like ETN fits the described role very well.

He probably does...or did...remains to be seen.   Also remains to be seen how critical that role will be.   Personally I'd rather have a guy that can win jump balls down the field, but meh...they're still trying to figure out what we are.  Last couple weeks have actually been encouraging to me.  Hopefully we have a better idea of what's missing on the offensive side of things by season's end

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On 10/4/2021 at 3:54 PM, Jags said:

Sounds like ETN fits the described role very well.

Yup.

So like at a very basic level, once your team is decently built up, you’re gonna have a pair of outside receivers like the Allen bros. Then you have your Y tight End that’s a good blocker (Manhertz) and then the F tight end that can catch too (Arnold).

The F tight end gets a number of roles and is asked to do many of the same concepts as a “Harvin player” but they’re expected to be more physical; they might get split out, but they’re going to be expected to haul in contested catches, or they may be put in the backfield but they’re usually there primarily to be a bit of a FB back there.

Then you can break the huddle with 12 personnel. You’ve got ETN on the field, Arnold, Manhertz, Robinson and Hurns. Or whichever players that the team has. And then you can go into a hurry up offense vs whatever personnel the defense put out there. If they went into a base defense, you spread them out by splitting Arnold and ETN out. If they went dime, you move Arnold back into the FB position and you power run on them. Or you show a run front at the snap, and the ETN and Arnold are running routes. Misdirection, confusion. All good stuff.

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On 10/4/2021 at 5:27 PM, pwny said:

Yup.

So like at a very basic level, once your team is decently built up, you’re gonna have a pair of outside receivers like the Allen bros. Then you have your Y tight End that’s a good blocker (Manhertz) and then the F tight end that can catch too (Arnold).

The F tight end gets a number of roles and is asked to do many of the same concepts as a “Harvin player” but they’re expected to be more physical; they might get split out, but they’re going to be expected to haul in contested catches, or they may be put in the backfield but they’re usually there primarily to be a bit of a FB back there.

Then you can break the huddle with 12 personnel. You’ve got ETN on the field, Arnold, Manhertz, Robinson and Hurns. Or whichever players that the opposing team has. And then you can go into a hurry up offense vs whatever personnel the defense put out there. If they went into a base defense, you spread them out by splitting Arnold and ETN out. If they went dime, you move Arnold back into the FB position and you power run on them. Or you show a run front at the snap, and the ETN and Arnold are running routes. Misdirection, confusion. All good stuff.

This concept reminds me a lot of what McVay does out in LA. Everything is run out of the same base formation, so it all looks the same, but the defense is always left guessing because they never know when it'll be play action, a hand off to the back, a jet sweep, etc. So many ways to hit them and the defense is always left on their toes. I like it a lot. Seems that picking up Robinson in FA and taking Ross in the 2nd or 3rd would not be a bad off-season for the Jaguars. 

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On 9/23/2021 at 8:59 AM, pwny said:

I’m mostly with you that I think the answer is one of these first round rookies. It’s just a matter if we’re at at a slot that it makes sense to draft them.

In reality, we should probably let Chark walk and replace him unless he really turns it on as the season goes along. Swapping him for a top 20 with top 15 potential WR makes a large difference in the group. Add that kind of guy, have Jones as the #2, and Viska and Tryon as the #3/4 guys and it isn’t a half bad group. Obviously there’s an issue of Jones maintaining his level of play as he gets further into his 30’s, but if you were to just take a snapshot of our WRs as their talent is right now, I’d be much more comfortable with that.

I’d really like it if we actually went big on this and got a vet and then went after one of the big name rookies, though. It’d be cool to not just have a mid-level WR group but to truly have a great group to work with. Give Trevor his own Harrison, Wayne, Clark and Stokley quad set of receiving options. 

It's the same story we've had for ages.  Finally had someone step into that "True #1 WR" role with ARob, and just let him walk/pushed him out the door through ineptitude.  Right back to that same problem.  You can collect as many 2/3 guys as you want, but without that true #1 Threat, it just doesn't work.  You need a guy who can not only win those top matchup draws...but draw that respect, and simultaneously open things up for the other guys.

 

We've got some depth.  Guys who can be really good 2/3 receivers.  You can also snap those guys up in FA pretty readily if you've got a bit of cap space to pay a premium for it, like with Marvin.  It's just all about slotting in where they belong, and that means finding a guy who pushes others down the depth chart to where they fit.

 

That's something that honestly...you pretty much have to do through the draft.  Unless you want to gamble on an old guy/headcase/schemefit...or just a guy like ARob who wants out of a dumb situation, coming off an injury at the same time.

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Tyron Johnson...what the heck is going on there?  This guy has been a real disappointment so far.  Thought he was going to be a guy who can stretch the field, instead he's not even active on GameDay. 

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2 hours ago, Charles said:

Tyron Johnson...what the heck is going on there?  This guy has been a real disappointment so far.  Thought he was going to be a guy who can stretch the field, instead he's not even active on GameDay. 

He's apparently having trouble getting route tree concepts down. Hopefully the bye week gives him time to figure it all out and become a contributor. But if he doesn't, don't expect him to make it here. Sadly.

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