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How Do You Divide the Blame for Broncos' Current Sorry State?


AnAngryAmerican

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6 minutes ago, champ11 said:

A lot of good points throughout the thread. To add on - looking at how much of an impact rookies are making across the league, it's really frustrating that this team really has zero young, exciting players. Roby, Simmons, Bolles, and Ray look like the only guys we can really get excited about. Very frustrating.

 

I think the majority of the blame has to go to the FO. I'll call it 55%. The bottom line with the team this year (and the last two years really) is they have two crippling weaknesses - the pass protection and the QB play. That comes back to player evaluation. 

The coaching staff is inexperienced and has not spent any time together. Compare that to the team we play tonight - one of the best and most experienced staffs in the league. There is going to be a learning curve for Joseph and the whole staff getting to know each other. You have to trust Elway and know that functional organizations aren't quick to turnover the coaching staff. Joseph will not be on the hot seat this season, period. There will be mistakes. It's a part of the process. 

 

The more I think about it, the more I am coming to think that the McManus extension is dumb. Even if he wasn't struggling - this team plays 8 (or hopefully more) games in Denver. The team has not had a bad kicker in my lifetime. It might not be the best allocation of money to spend a premium on a kicker when you probably can keep developing them. But yeah, ST has been freaking terrible. The defense is not forcing turnovers, which is an issue. And obviously the offense is trash. 

Yeah the two crippling weaknesses are becoming increasingly apparent.

You can scheme to cover for a bad quarterback if you're getting strong offensive line play, you can scheme to cover a weak offensive line if you're getting strong quarterback play, but you can't scheme to cover both. 

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50% offensive players

35% Elway

15% coaching

Elway shoulders a fair share of the blame in the sense that he is the one who built this team. But at the end of the day Denver's offensive players are the weak link. And our problems on offense are very simple:

Siemian can't make pre-snap reads . Therefore he can't correctly audible his protection, and Denver's O-line isn't good enough to make up the difference. 

As a result, teams disguise their pass rush -> it works -> Siemian crumbles under the pressure. And as the QB goes so does the rest of the offense. 

This is the exact same thing that happened last year, and it's not gonna stop until we either A) find a high level QB or B) build a brick wall for Siemian to throw behind. 

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8 hours ago, 1234567 said:

50% offensive players

35% Elway

15% coaching

Elway shoulders a fair share of the blame in the sense that he is the one who built this team. But at the end of the day Denver's offensive players are the weak link. And our problems on offense are very simple:

Siemian can't make pre-snap reads . Therefore he can't correctly audible his protection, and Denver's O-line isn't good enough to make up the difference. 

As a result, teams disguise their pass rush -> it works -> Siemian crumbles under the pressure. And as the QB goes so does the rest of the offense. 

This is the exact same thing that happened last year, and it's not gonna stop until we either A) find a high level QB or B) build a brick wall for Siemian to throw behind. 

Who signed/drafted these offensive players? Elway. It's not like we have a team full of stars and they are underperforming. Elway built this OL- warts and all. Elway failed to find a competent QB, TE, WR Depth, etc... The players aren't good to begin with.

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I blame it all on the QB play and the QB's we've drafted. Unfortunately, there not a dime a dozen...we missed; too bad. Honestly, I hope they keep starting Siemian and here's why:

1) I don't feel confident with any QB on our roster as the QBOFT

2) All our QB's have zero trade value

3) If we pull him, he's not going back in to relieve even worse QB play

4) We need to draft a QB in early round 1 this year or we're looking at trading for Cousins, etc.

5) If we put in Lynch now and he fails, then we're looking at a massive house cleaning, IMO - which we don't need.

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The most frustrating thing about the current situation is that there isn't a good  "fu**- it, lets just __________" option. 

 

Our blue-chip guys are in the tee box on 10; Talib is 31, CHJ is 28, Von is 28, DT is 29, Emmanuel Sanders is 30.

By the time we've rebuilt this offense into a competent, Super Bowl ready offense, will these guys still be stars?

They're all on big contracts, but are they tradeable? How much trade value do they even have on their current deals? Even if we could get a decent haul, would we want to trade away the guys who brought us SB50?  I can't imagine the fanbase would take kindly to an aging asset dump- and I can't imagine Elway & Co are particularly interested in THAT kind of PR nightmare. 

 

So what are the options we are left with?

  1. Throw Osweiler in the game just to get Siemian out of there? I mean, who gives a **** if the wolves in Philly & NE eat him alive. But what does that do for us? At this point, do we want better production from the QB position if it isn’t coming from the QBOTF? Seems to me that picking in the 10-22 range of the draft is the WORST case scenario for this season, given the QB meat available at the top of the draft.
  2. Run the young guys out? Get Lynch on the field to make sure he isn’t the guy, put the ball in the hands of DHenderson and Booker, get Jake Butt some reps, give Virgil Green some bus tokens and tell him to get lost, set Shaq, Ray, Von, and DemarcusWalker loose, get Langley, Parks, Carter, and Simmons some reps, and see what the next era looks like.
  3. Go with whoever gives you the best chance to win this season (Siemian or Oz, obviously) and gun for a wild-card spot? Miami is selling off assets, Baltimore is a dumpster fire, Oakland is a game back with a H2H loss to us, Jacksonville has Blake Bortles at QB, Tennessee can’t get it together, and we don’t take NYJ THAT seriously yet, do we? Buffalo will get one WC spot but it’s not TOTALLY implausible that we could sneak in at 8-8/9-7.
  4. Make a trade for a big piece.

 

I just don’t see this team climbing above mediocrity and I don’t think there is a worse place to be than in the middle. Either make a splash or get your QBOTF.

We either contend this year or we use this lost season to get the QBOTF. If we do neither, dark times lie ahead.

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Wholeheartedly agree with the above. Personally, I think we need to throw players out there and let them sink or swim and take the lumps this season. Being 9-7, 8-8, 7-9 does NOTHING for this team and makes acquiring high level talent we need that much more difficult. The Broncos are in a bad position offensively, no amount of reps will fully save the season. That said, we do have the ability to gain experience at key positions, something VERY important for this young team, IMO.

QB is a lost cause. Trevor aint it. Brock aint it. Lynch probably isn't, but we know the least about him. I would play him and let the chips fall where they may. We already threw away a solid defensive year. 

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9 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

Wholeheartedly agree with the above. Personally, I think we need to throw players out there and let them sink or swim and take the lumps this season. Being 9-7, 8-8, 7-9 does NOTHING for this team and makes acquiring high level talent we need that much more difficult. The Broncos are in a bad position offensively, no amount of reps will fully save the season. That said, we do have the ability to gain experience at key positions, something VERY important for this young team, IMO.

QB is a lost cause. Trevor aint it. Brock aint it. Lynch probably isn't, but we know the least about him. I would play him and let the chips fall where they may. We already threw away a solid defensive year. 

Yeah I think @bMiller031 pretty much nailed it. Tanking doesn't really fix teams in the NFL, so I'm not exactly pro tank, but you let the kids play and go from there. The team needs a QB. Gonna be interesting to see how they approach that. 

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The worst news about this whole situation is we're not going to have much money to play with in the offseason.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/

Right now we have about $11m in cap space and, given the NFL's revenue problems, the cap isn't likely to increase much beyond the $167m mark it is at for 2017. The biggest contracts coming off the books for 2018? Virgil Green at $2.8m and Todd Davis at $2.7m. 

When I saw SF traded for Garappolo I got excited because it gives us a chance to land Kirk Cousins, but I don't think we'll be able to afford him. 

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Ya, our cap doesn't look to appealing. Its not terrible, but we have so few low-salary rookie deal guys making an impact that we need to (overly) rely on FA help.

Look, this team has talent. A lot. We just need a competent QB and RT. And unfortunately QB is the most expensive position and RT, going off last offseason, is quickly becoming as expensive as LT.

I think the best option is a insane, RG3 like trade up for a franchise QB or signing Teddy to a prove-it one year deal and drafting a plug/play RT in R1. I prefer the latter, because paying a kings ransom for a QB is so risky. If he bust, your essentially done talent wise for 2-3 seasons. It can be a disaster.

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4 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Ya, our cap doesn't look to appealing. Its not terrible, but we have so few low-salary rookie deal guys making an impact that we need to (overly) rely on FA help.

Look, this team has talent. A lot. We just need a competent QB and RT. And unfortunately QB is the most expensive position and RT, going off last offseason, is quickly becoming as expensive as LT.

I think the best option is a insane, RG3 like trade up for a franchise QB or signing Teddy to a prove-it one year deal and drafting a plug/play RT in R1. I prefer the latter, because paying a kings ransom for a QB is so risky. If he bust, your essentially done talent wise for 2-3 seasons. It can be a disaster.

The Teddy option is interesting- especially because he'll be quite inexpensive if he doesn't get the chance to show he's the same guy between now and then.  

But I'd rather we go BPA in the draft and hope that a few of the picks end up being good long-term pieces. I don't think we're one move away from a SB anymore so I'd hate to see us reach for a RT, especially because the demand for RT is so high at the moment. 

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12 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Ya, our cap doesn't look to appealing. Its not terrible, but we have so few low-salary rookie deal guys making an impact that we need to (overly) rely on FA help.

Look, this team has talent. A lot. We just need a competent QB and RT. And unfortunately QB is the most expensive position and RT, going off last offseason, is quickly becoming as expensive as LT.

I think the best option is a insane, RG3 like trade up for a franchise QB or signing Teddy to a prove-it one year deal and drafting a plug/play RT in R1. I prefer the latter, because paying a kings ransom for a QB is so risky. If he bust, your essentially done talent wise for 2-3 seasons. It can be a disaster.

I'll say it again....Tyrod Taylor.  2-year deal.   While our window with this D to compete.  RT we address via FA/draft.  ILB draft is easiest, unless you are elite, can be found in Rd 3+.   3rd WR is trickier.

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I'll say it again....Tyrod Taylor.  2-year deal.   While our window with this D to compete.  RT we address via FA/draft.  ILB draft is easiest, unless you are elite, can be found in Rd 3+.   3rd WR is trickier.

I definitely prefer Tyrod to Teddy, but the sticking point is the $$$. I think Tyrod is going to be far more expensive, and I also don't see why Buffalo would move on from him at this point. I think Tyrod will cost 16-18M per season. On the other hand, Teddy will likely take a prove-it deal (Like the one RG3 got from CLE) in the hopes of playing well year 1 and getting that 16-18M deal after the year ends.

I don't think we can pay a QB 16-18M that it will take to get Tyrod, much less the 20+M it will take to get Cousins, unless we make some REALLY difficult cuts. I am talking Talib type cuts. And I don't want to rob Peter to pay Paul.

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