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If He Were to Retire Today is Matt Ryan a HOF Quarterback?


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2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

I’m not about rings being the only/main argument. I was more responding to the guy saying there’s a long, consistent record of guys like Matt Ryan getting in the HOF. There hasn’t been, not recently.

Kelly went to almost a half a decade’s worth. Marino was special, even compared to most HOFers. Moon was a great player with a special legacy/story, and longevity to boot (he’s not someone I’d have voted in, but that’s besides the point).

If we are indeed just going by the standard set in the last 40 years or so, hardware certainly seems to matter.

When Ryan retires, if his numbers are close to Marino's, he's getting in. Both have 1 MVP, and both have 1 SB appearance with no wins. At a certain point, the pro bowls are going to not matter for the HOF. And it's tough to win 1st team all-pro in the era with Brady dominating for 25 years.

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2 minutes ago, scar988 said:

When Ryan retires, if his numbers are close to Marino's, he's getting in. Both have 1 MVP, and both have 1 SB appearance with no wins. At a certain point, the pro bowls are going to not matter for the HOF. And it's tough to win 1st team all-pro in the era with Brady dominating for 25 years.

Except Marino was regarded as one of, if not often the best, quarterbacks of his era. No one was ever fooling themselves thinking Ryan was in the same tier as Brady/Peyton/Rodgers/Brees. Even if Ryan was the outright, undebatable 5th best of this era (he isn’t), and there was no sizable gap between he and those other 4 (there is), are we going to vote 5 QBs in every era into the HOF? No thanks, leave it for the best of the best, which Ryan was not outside of one season. 

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On 9/26/2021 at 4:55 PM, scar988 said:

When Ryan retires, if his numbers are close to Marino's, he's getting in. Both have 1 MVP, and both have 1 SB appearance with no wins. At a certain point, the pro bowls are going to not matter for the HOF. And it's tough to win 1st team all-pro in the era with Brady dominating for 25 years.

Brady has only been first team All Pro three times, and Ryan wasn't even in the league during one of those. Peyton was a bigger threat, winning it four times since Ryan entered the league, Rodgers has it three times in that timespan.

And getting close to Marino's stats means nothing, because Marino got those numbers in the 1980s and 90s, not in the the current passer friendly era. Marino was also considered the best among his era for a time, and considered one of the best pure passers ever. You can't say anything like that about Ryan.

Compare Ryan to players of his own era and his resume just doesn't really stand out. The best thing he has going for him, other than his 2016 campaign, is his longevity and his ability to avoid injury. He's got some nice looking volume stats because of that, but that's about it.

Even his 2016 MVP season isn't even that special. It was a great season, but it's overshadowed by performances by other QBs a few years before and after.

Edited by Coffee & Contemplation
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On 9/24/2021 at 11:10 PM, scar988 said:

It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Elite. 

From the Hall of Fame website

Last I checked, Matt Ryan fits the bill of Vision. He's an excellent player through his career. He promotes the values of the game on and off the field. He fits the mission. 

He has the stats needed to fit the bill of long term excellence. He has the career in the playoffs to fit it too, regardless of winning the super bowl or not, Ryan has played well enough to win in almost every playoff game he was in. No one crushed them outside of the 2011 game vs. NYG and the game vs Green Bay where the Falcons had a shot and they got behind at the half due to a receiver slipping in the end zone on a pick six. It was down hill from there. The Falcons lost a lot of games in the playoffs due to bad luck. 

More importantly, the people who vote on it, will likely believe that he belongs in because they voted in similar people with similar resumes.

 

Ryan's resume of longevity and consistency and performance over a decade and a half will be more than enough. Some people are sitting here arguing against a guy who's likely to finish in the top 4 passing all time.

You make some good points, scar.  I especially agree with the bolded part.  Too many people are making the whole thing just an examination of the stat sheet.  When you think about it, the Hall of Fame should be about memories of the game, and that's for the fans.  I don't really know if Matt Ryan will get in or not, but you made a good case for him.

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The Hall of Fame should really come down to two things:

Were you an elite player for an extended period of time? 

Were your contributions to the NFL notable enough when considering the leagues entire history (are you needed to tell the story of the NFL)? 

For Ryan it's no for both, and neither has much of an argument.

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If he retires today, its a no.. just like Rivers is a no

However, if he plays 3-4 more meaningless, above average but unspectacular years, I think he moves to a "soft yes" for me

 

He has an MVP, and that DOES matter. He'll be in the 70,000s, even if the last 15 or so were fairly meaningless

I wouldn't be crushed if he doesn't get in, but Brady, Breess, Rodgers, and Roethlisberger are the only retired/near retired QBs who are ahead of him in the pecking order, and all 4 of those guys are locks. There will be several years where he is on the ballot and the best QB option, and if there's a light year down the road, I think he eventually gets the call

Edited by Tk3
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24 minutes ago, Tk3 said:

If he retires today, its a no.. just like Rivers is a no

However, if he plays 3-4 more meaningless, above average but unspectacular years, I think he moves to a "soft yes" for me

 

He has an MVP, and that DOES matter. He'll be in the 70,000s, even if the last 15 or so were fairly meaningless

I wouldn't be crushed if he doesn't get in, but Brady, Breess, Rodgers, and Roethlisberger are the only retired/near retired QBs who are ahead of him in the pecking order, and all 4 of those guys are locks. There will be several years where he is on the ballot and the best QB option, and if there's a light year down the road, I think he eventually gets the call

Without a SB win, he won't be close to a first ballot guy. But if the Falcons can pull one out somehow, then he's a first ballot guy because that'd be the only thing missing 3-4 years down the line if he's over 70k yards.

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My deal with Ryan is he doesn't have many seasons where he was really elite.  He had one special season, and a few really good seasons, but his peers have had many seasons where they could be called elite.

He's the one guy where a SB would make him a lock.  I don't particularly like using SB rings to make a case, but for Ryan, he really needed that SB win in 2016.

 

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On 9/26/2021 at 3:55 PM, scar988 said:

When Ryan retires, if his numbers are close to Marino's, he's getting in. Both have 1 MVP, and both have 1 SB appearance with no wins. At a certain point, the pro bowls are going to not matter for the HOF. And it's tough to win 1st team all-pro in the era with Brady dominating for 25 years.

Please refrain from comparing Matt Ryan to Dan Marino in the future.

Thank you,

Patriots fan that HATED Marino

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21 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

The Hall of Fame should really come down to two things:

Were you an elite player for an extended period of time? 

Were your contributions to the NFL notable enough when considering the leagues entire history (are you needed to tell the story of the NFL)? 

For Ryan it's no for both, and neither has much of an argument.

THANK YOU.

Stats require context. Montana, Marino, Elway Young, Namath with good knees, etc. would be unstoppable monsters in today's NFL whereas some of these younger QBs (Mahomes, Lamar, etc.) would probably die in the old days.

Edited by biggie.
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is 2016 and 2018 seasons were great years. 

But he spent a big chunk of his career with great talent at WR, TE, RB and was just "pretty good-really good". A lot of his seasons were very average. 

He feels a bit like the Kurt Warner case, except without the Superbowl win and multiple appearances/runs of dominance. 

Hall of Very Good, no doubt. Hall of Fame though? No. 

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On 9/23/2021 at 9:40 AM, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Perhaps down the road, but he, like Rivers I'm guessing is going to have a hard time getting enshrined. This is assuming Matt retired today. The funny thing is if Matt had this type of career, and retired like 20 years ago he'd probably get in like Warren Moon or Dan Fouts did. Neither of which got to a Super Bowl. But the emphasis on acquiring the hardware has increased in addition to the league having a bunch of guys also putting up impressive numbers. 

Fouts was a multi time all pro and really should have been MVP during the strike year. He basically had a 5-6 year period where he was conistently a top 2-3 QB at worst. Ryan was a top 5 QB once. Moon was a bit of trailblazer so you have to consider different contexts. 

 

On 9/23/2021 at 3:41 PM, scar988 said:

He's 9th all time in passing yards and TDs. He'll get in.

That doesn't mean anything lol. Drew Bledsoe retired in the top 10 of both stats and didn't get in. Both lists are heavily slanted towards modern players. In an era where bulk stats mattered a lot more it wasn't a guarantee. This is just about the most worthless they have ever been. He got drafted in 2008. He's going to be compared to Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning in a period where he won 3 MVP's, Russell Wilson etc. He needs another MVP or he needs a SB. If he had a career full of All Pros, maybe he'd have a shot, but it's kinda too late for that. He needs high end accolades, which he probably won't get

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