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20 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

I feel like every fanbase of a team who has been on the hunt for a new HC in the past half decade (atleast) has thrown Toub on the list, and Im not sure he's ever come all that close for anyone.

I get what you are saying, and agree with some of the traits you are highlighted as needs for a good HC, but it just seems like if he was as good of a HC as many like to lay out his resume to be, he would have gotten a better chance by now.

 

Brian Daboll would be at the top of my list, and as a bit of a counter to the Offensive minded trend of HCs, Matt Eberflus would be high up there for me as well. But of course this is all abut more than just the one guy. Its also about what his vision forward is, as well as who they know they can bring in as other coaches (Coordinators specifically)

It's Toub's traits I'm shopping as much as Toub himself.  The fact that others have passed on him is pretty insignificant to me since others similar to Toub may also have been passed over due to not being the "hot prospect" of the moment.  Look how long Vic Fangio was passed over before he finally got his shot at being a HC.  In his own way Fangio is quite similar.  He's just a damn good coach overall and always has been.

Once you start down a rabbit hole based solely on stats or how someone has done with just one offense (Nagy) or one particular QB (Nagy again) you can overlook things that should be warning flags.  I'm far more into hiring the right person than the right "resume" because what that "resume" accomplished elsewhere may not travel with them (Nagy a 3rd time) vs a guy whose been good wherever he's coached.

IMHO Fangio and Toub are examples of that type of coach.  That's who I'm after which probably makes me somewhat the polar opposite of who other members here favor.  Who would ever have thought that a mug like Mike Ditka would ever end up being the second all time winningest HC in Bears history but George Halas saw the benefit in hiring him because in Ditka he saw a winner who would accept nothing less.

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Is Pace staying?

 

If Pace stays I doubt the top guys will want to come here and work for a GM on his 3rd HC who would have questionable job security. Not when they can likely pick their team and maybe even pick their GM.

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1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

Is Pace staying?

 

If Pace stays I doubt the top guys will want to come here and work for a GM on his 3rd HC who would have questionable job security. Not when they can likely pick their team and maybe even pick their GM.

If Daboll came here I think he would probably pick his own guy...he is close with Bills assistant GM Joe Schoen...Dan Morgan could make sense as well...I would be happy with either combined with Daboll.

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22 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

If Daboll came here I think he would probably pick his own guy...he is close with Bills assistant GM Joe Schoen...Dan Morgan could make sense as well...I would be happy with either combined with Daboll.

Sure, that would  be awesome.

But if Pace stays? No way Daboll is coming here to work with a GM that has taken the bullets Pace has.

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1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

Is Pace staying?

 

If Pace stays I doubt the top guys will want to come here and work for a GM on his 3rd HC who would have questionable job security. Not when they can likely pick their team and maybe even pick their GM.

That's why I keep thinking remove Phillips as Team President and assign him to some non-football job like working on the Arlington Park thing which is more in line with his long suit.  Then make Pace Team President.  Then hire a new GM or promote one from within.  Then hire a new HC.  😁

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2 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Sure, that would  be awesome.

But if Pace stays? No way Daboll is coming here to work with a GM that has taken the bullets Pace has.

I don't think Pace stays if I am honest...I think we are in for maybe a 10+ loss season...position is then untenable.

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1 minute ago, Madmike90 said:

I don't think Pace stays if I am honest...I think we are in for maybe a 10+ loss season...position is then untenable.

Don't tease me. I will believe Pace is fired once it comes from George's mouth. Until then... I will assume he is back.

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If Pace stays I think Greg Roman makes a ton of sense.

-Has designed a ton of different offenses.

-Has called plays for a lot of years.

-Has worked with different QBs.

-Uses the QB as a run game weapon.

-Expects TEs to block and that is what we have.

-Big power OL is where we are transitioning to.

-Values the OL.

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17 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

If Pace stays I think Greg Roman makes a ton of sense.

-Has designed a ton of different offenses.

-Has called plays for a lot of years.

-Has worked with different QBs.

-Uses the QB as a run game weapon.

-Expects TEs to block and that is what we have.

-Big power OL is where we are transitioning to.

-Values the OL.

I was listening to a report on the athletic and the reporter said the reason teams stay away from Roman is he is a control freak and no one believes he could delegate enough to run a full franchise.

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49 minutes ago, soulman said:

That's why I keep thinking remove Phillips as Team President and assign him to some non-football job like working on the Arlington Park thing which is more in line with his long suit.  Then make Pace Team President.  Then hire a new GM or promote one from within.  Then hire a new HC.  😁

Nothing says Chicago quite like failing up!

Michael Scott Reaction GIF

Edited by abstract_thought
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1 hour ago, abstract_thought said:

Nothing says Chicago quite like failing up!

Michael Scott Reaction GIF

If we consider the whole of Pace's accomplishments as GM he's not been a complete failure or at least not to the McCaskey Clan.

Team personnel aside he's presided over the additions and improvements made to Halas Hall and the practice facilities.  He's also forced the organization to climb into the 21st century technologically and IMHO greatly improved their official website look and content.

Any criticism I have of him tends to come from his inconsistencies and occasional lack of logic on personnel matters and while no GM ever bats 1.000 I believe our track record could stand to be improved upon.  Being an administrator may be where he actually belongs.

Besides, how tough can it be to improve upon Ted Phillips who failed upward much greater than Pace would.

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3 hours ago, soulman said:

That's why I keep thinking remove Phillips as Team President and assign him to some non-football job like working on the Arlington Park thing which is more in line with his long suit.  Then make Pace Team President.  Then hire a new GM or promote one from within.  Then hire a new HC.  😁

My dream of Pace being moved up died when we bought Arlington...for once having an out and out business man as president might make more sense until the stadium is at least signed off.

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22 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

My dream of Pace being moved up died when we bought Arlington...for once having an out and out business man as president might make more sense until the stadium is at least signed off.

As if Teddy Bears needs that title in order to do his job of negotiating on yet a new stadium and development?  He did that before regarding SF before he was Team President.  Give him a new title or just make Pace Executive VP and move him to the administration level.  Titles mean nothing responsibilities do and anything that can get Teddy Bears away from anything having to do with football ops is all good with me.

My concern is that we have another one or two personnel guys, Josh Lucas and Champ Kelly, who like Joe Douglas might be hired away unless they're promoted.  IMHO the personnel department itself has uncovered some very good talent.  That Nagy and his offensive staff can't seem to get the most out of these guys is not the fault of the personnel department.  That's 100% on Matt Nagy and his staff.

I'm just brainstorming here and thinking that GMcC will not be overly enthused about firing Ryan Pace and having to hire both a GM and a new HC all in a very short period of time.  If they truly intend to keep Pace around then move him out of the line of fire and promote from within.  Then let Pace collaborate with a new GM on the hiring of a new HC.  A GM who was directly involved with players who are now on the roster.

I don't see a need to tear down the entire team and rebuild from scratch and IMHO neither will GMcC.  We've done that twice now in the past decade.  It began under Emery and then began again under Pace.  We don't have a ton of high draft picks and trading away vets really isn't gonna get us many more if any at all.  Mack is probably the only one worth that and even that's a big IF and we have no valuable QBs to trade either.

What we need is a HC and a staff much better at developing our younger talent and those we can bring in via the draft and UDFA.  We can't keep filling holes with higher priced vets unless they're huge difference makers like Mack and ARob have been.  We have a lot of guys playing out their deals this year and a lot of holes to fill.  Whose gonna be coaching in 2022 will play a big role in who we keep and who we don't.

Based on that alone Pace and GMcC need to make a decision pretty quickly regarding Nagy.  I'm not necessarily saying fire him now although obviously I'd prefer that or at least sooner than later.  I think we've wasted enough time by now to know Nagy isn't working out.  We went through the same thing last year and the year before where Nagy promises a "fix" that never happens.  We used Mitch as an excuse but was he?

As I've posted Mitch and 3 other vet QB have struggled to get meaningful production out of this offense.  All that's happened is we've seen Nagy promise changes that never seem to happen or if they do still don't work.  Even if there was such a thing in the NFL as a 5 year plan by now we should have seen signs of some major improvement and we haven't.  It really is time to move on from  Matt Nagy......JMHO.

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