Week 4 GDT - Bears vs Lions

[soulman]

10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

I never said that you or anyone said those EXACT words. Especially you. Read again who I was quoting when I said that because I'm too busy read it back to you.

Debates over brother.  We see it differently.

[Heinz D.]

21 hours ago, soulman said:

These are the kind of personnel decisions that really have me questioning Pace and Nagy.

Well...they were using him at RB last year. That alone should make you question their decision-making...

[soulman]

3 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Well...they were using him at RB last year. That alone should make you question their decision-making...

So is Atlanta and so did NE.  It's our offense that's the problem Heinz.

[Heinz D.]

22 minutes ago, soulman said:

So is Atlanta and so did NE.  It's our offense that's the problem Heinz.

The architecture, yeah. Lazor seems to have got it smoothed out.

But I don't think either of those other teams used him specifically at RB, did they? It was a wrinkle kind of thing for them, wasn't it? 

[soulman]

3 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

The architecture, yeah. Lazor seems to have got it smoothed out.

But I don't think either of those other teams used him specifically at RB, did they? It was a wrinkle kind of thing for them, wasn't it? 

Not specifically no but neither did we.

CP never did live up to his draft status as only a WR but as a combination WR/RB/KR he's been of value to every team he's ever played for.  I thought it was crazy for us to lose both him and McManis at once.  He signed with Atlanta for just $3 mil.  We pay Graham more than twice that.

Edited October 6, 2021 by soulman

[Heinz D.]

17 hours ago, soulman said:

Not specifically no but neither did we.

Well, they kept him as a returner. And the guy had some good gains...but despised the touchback. Just goofy, in today's league.

He was a pretty bad RB, though. Just a pure straight line, straight ahead, runner. Which is garbage stuff unless you have LaDainian Tomlinson skills. And Patterson didn't. 

[Sugashane]

35 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Well, they kept him as a returner. And the guy had some good gains...but despised the touchback. Just goofy, in today's league.

He was a pretty bad RB, though. Just a pure straight line, straight ahead, runner. Which is garbage stuff unless you have LaDainian Tomlinson skills. And Patterson didn't. 

Or Brandon Jacobs size. I love seeing people get straight up trucked. 

@dll2000 on top of converting DL to OL I say either a DL or LB that lacks lateral mobility or size be converted to a monster of a FB. CornWash was a dream prospect for that role to me (especially shen he got to like 280 and STILL had some burst . Can we add that into the farm system? 

[soulman]

3 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

He was a pretty bad RB, though. Just a pure straight line, straight ahead, runner. Which is garbage stuff unless you have LaDainian Tomlinson skills. And Patterson didn't. 

But a straight line runner with 4.3 speed.  Once you can get him into the second level how many LBs or Safeties can run with him?

Just as you can scheme a WR open you can also scheme a path for a RB that can take advantage to his burst and long speed.

We just never did it.  When CP lined up at RB he was given the same plays as Monty ran when they're two very different players.

IMHO better coaching might have made him more productive on offense as he was in NE and has been in Atlanta.  Face it.  Our coaches have been lazy.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

I totally agree with soul that Patterson is the type of player you can design seeing to take advantage of his lopsided skill set, and we just never did it. Then again, lots of other (better) teams had him onboard and couldn't do it either. So maybe it's actually not that easy or worthwhile?

[soulman]

3 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

I totally agree with soul that Patterson is the type of player you can design seeing to take advantage of his lopsided skill set, and we just never did it. Then again, lots of other (better) teams had him onboard and couldn't do it either. So maybe it's actually not that easy or worthwhile?

While he never became the #1 WR Minny hoped for over his career he typically produced 400-600 total yards on offense each year and about 3 TDs.  That's in addition to his stats as a Pro Bowl KR where he's scored 8 TDs and averaged nearly 30 yards per return.

His lowest production on offense came in his two years in Chicago.  He had just 550 yards total offense and just one TD not that those stats should come as a surprise in Nagy's offense.

In just 4 games with Atlanta he has 354 yards of total offense and 5 TDs whereas with us in 2020 he had just 364 yards and 1 TD in 16 games.  I'm standing by my opinion that we didn't use him properly on offense but then I could say that about almost every player we have.

[dll2000]

I haven’t looked at tape for myself unobjectively as my current busy schedule has prohibited it.  

But I have watched pieces of run pass option and tape never lies breaking it down. 

Obviously line did way better agains Lions, but keep in mind guys they were blocking were way worse than Browns players. 

Still Peters was fairly dominant against Lions it appears to me.  Especially in run blocking.  Looks like Daniels is doing better than I thought and Ifedi is doing a bit worse.   Our center is struggling and Whitehair has been decent.  
 

Phil highlighted some plays where ARob did not block well. One play in particular infuriated me as IMO ARob made a business decision not to make a block on a LB and that LB made a clean hit on ball carrier who broke the tackle anyway.  But that slowed down what would have been a bigger play.   

Can’t even remember who ball carrier was as I was focused on ARobs block or lack thereof.   Not making a play or using bad tech and giving max effort is fine.  I think ARob did that on some other blocks he was being ripped for by Phil.  But to not make the effort, which clearly happened on play I am thinking of makes me crazy. 

That is unacceptable.  I would have went off on Arob in film.  I don’t care if it was Jerry Rice.   That cannot happen.  Meanwhile Mooney is in mix of piles of 300+lb men.  

[dll2000]

I really respect Mooney’s bravery.  But I think he should play a bit more cautiously.  He lacks body mass to withstand some of hits he is exposing himself to.  

Edited October 8, 2021 by dll2000
To not too

[dll2000]

On 10/6/2021 at 5:32 PM, Sugashane said:

Or Brandon Jacobs size. I love seeing people get straight up trucked. 

@dll2000 on top of converting DL to OL I say either a DL or LB that lacks lateral mobility or size be converted to a monster of a FB. CornWash was a dream prospect for that role to me (especially shen he got to like 280 and STILL had some burst . Can we add that into the farm system? 

A FB needs mobility.  But I agree using athletic DL and OL in that role is smart.

I would even put Aaron Donald or the like at FB for packages.  Why settle?  Put your best athletes on the field. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by dll2000

[soulman]

48 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Phil highlighted some plays where ARob did not block well. One play in particular infuriated me as IMO ARob made a business decision not to make a block on a LB and that LB made a clean hit on ball carrier who broke the tackle anyway.  But that slowed down what would have been a bigger play.   

Can’t even remember who ball carrier was as I was focused on ARobs block or lack thereof.   Not making a play or using bad tech and giving max effort is fine.  I think ARob did that on some other blocks he was being ripped for by Phil.  But to not make the effort, which clearly happened on play I am thinking of makes me crazy. 

That is unacceptable.  I would have went off on Arob in film.  I don’t care if it was Jerry Rice.   That cannot happen.  Meanwhile Mooney is in mix of piles of 300+lb men.  

I'm not excusing it but maybe this is what happens when you leave a guy like ARob out on a limb with no contract extension like Pace has done.  Other than his current salary he has zero protection against what a serious injury may do to his value in 2022 if he becomes a FA.

IMHO his failure to throw a block or two when he should have won't cost him a plug nickel as a FA.  His value as a WR has already been well established.  A serious injury like an ACL tear would impact his value just as it did when we signed him.  I'd say he's being cautious.

[soulman]

57 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Obviously line did way better agains Lions, but keep in mind guys they were blocking were way worse than Browns players. 

Still Peters was fairly dominant against Lions it appears to me.  Especially in run blocking.  Looks like Daniels is doing better than I thought and Ifedi is doing a bit worse.   Our center is struggling and Whitehair has been decent.  

Assuming both Jenkins and Borom return 100% healthy I have to wonder if moving either Daniels or Whitehair back to OC may not be a better solution to our issues there.  Even having gained size and supposedly strength as well Mustipher is still having problems handling his role.

Ifedi could be moved in to play RG while either Jenkins or Borom take on RT.  Then it's up to who ever can best handle OC between Daniels and Whitehair the other playing LG.