KeithVikings28 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 19 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: The point stands that no one is calling for Zimmer's head if Joseph makes a very makable kick. If you want to criticize the FO for not having figured out the ST and always having kicking struggles, that's perfectly valid. I don't think that the record reflects the overall team performance. Luck/fluke plays impact all teams. So far this season, the Vikings have been on the wrong end of that more often than not. Not a bad coach. Not a bad roster. Well, luck is where opportunity and preparation meet. Unless, you’re saying all those teams are just getting lucky which is just flat out silly. They’re better than the Vikings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithVikings28 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 By saying the other teams got “lucky” is just a cheap excuse and doesn’t hold anyone accountable. How many close losses do you need to see? Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithVikings28 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 “I’ve been doing this 27 years, I know good teams, and I know bad teams,” Zimmer insisted. “I know this team has a chance to be pretty darn good. We may not look like it right now because we’re 1-3, but even like Kevin [Stefanski] said to me before the game, ‘You got a really good football team here.’ And they do, too. They were just a little bit better than us today.” This is what weak leadership looks like. Anytime someone says they’ve been doing something for X amount of years they lose all credibility. If you’ve been doing to so long, why are you losing to a guy who is just a couple of seasons in? Then, mentioning Stefanski just appears very weak and approval seeking behavior. Sorry guys but Zimmer has to go and he should’ve been gone a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 As far as I remember, there were people calling for Zimmer's head well before Joseph missed a kick so I doubt that missed kick is too much of a factor. Based on what I have seen, the Vikings got flat out beat in two of their three losses. They could have won, but they didn't really deserve to win. Speaking more generally, one play didn't decide any of the Vikings games. The way the team performed for the rest of those games is the reason that there was one play that one could point to that may have changed the outcome. The thing is, all teams have plays that don't go there way. Teams have to account for that and win anyway. The really good teams are able to do that. The best way thing to do is to play in such a way that one bad bounce won't change the outcome. Coaches on the Vikings sometimes do not seem to call plays that give the best chance of putting the game away. Conservative mentality is a contributing factor to "one play" being able to break the game into the loss column. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, KeithVikings28 said: “I’ve been doing this 27 years, I know good teams, and I know bad teams,” Zimmer insisted. “I know this team has a chance to be pretty darn good. We may not look like it right now because we’re 1-3, but even like Kevin [Stefanski] said to me before the game, ‘You got a really good football team here.’ And they do, too. They were just a little bit better than us today.” This is what weak leadership looks like. Anytime someone says they’ve been doing something for X amount of years they lose all credibility. If you’ve been doing to so long, why are you losing to a guy who is just a couple of seasons in? Then, mentioning Stefanski just appears very weak and approval seeking behavior. Sorry guys but Zimmer has to go and he should’ve been gone a long time ago. Fact is the Browns do have an absolutely great team and outside of the QB position they have arguably the best roster in all of football. They have crazy depth and talent at almost every position outside of QB where Baker is a little lacking. Still the Vikings stood in there against the best OL in the NFL and the best RB tandem in the NFL with the deepest TE room in the NFL and held them better than one would have thought. The Vikings do have a good team if they can go up against one of the best rosters in the NFL against one of the best teams in the NFL and hang with them. I am glad the D played so well because based on the previous games it was a question if the D could stop anyone. Alexander played great, Dantzler impressed so hopefully he gets more playing time in the future. The Vikings have one of the best receivers in the NFL in Jefferson, one of the best RBs in the NFL in Cook, one of the best tacklers in the NFL in Kendricks, one of the best DEs in the NFL in Hunter.... So yeah they are a decent team with good solid talent, but sure if they do not win games it ultimately does not matter, winning matters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithVikings28 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 If the Vikings lose Sunday do we all agree to clean house? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithVikings28 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Fact is the Browns do have an absolutely great team and outside of the QB position they have arguably the best roster in all of football. They have crazy depth and talent at almost every position outside of QB where Baker is a little lacking. Still the Vikings stood in there against the best OL in the NFL and the best RB tandem in the NFL with the deepest TE room in the NFL and held them better than one would have thought. The Vikings do have a good team if they can go up against one of the best rosters in the NFL against one of the best teams in the NFL and hang with them. I am glad the D played so well because based on the previous games it was a question if the D could stop anyone. Alexander played great, Dantzler impressed so hopefully he gets more playing time in the future. The Vikings have one of the best receivers in the NFL in Jefferson, one of the best RBs in the NFL in Cook, one of the best tacklers in the NFL in Kendricks, one of the best DEs in the NFL in Hunter.... So yeah they are a decent team with good solid talent, but sure if they do not win games it ultimately does not matter, winning matters. Here’s the thing though, having a single workhorse RB is outdated. I would much rather do a RB by committee approach and spread those resources elsewhere. That’s what I saying is the team is poorly assembled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 hours ago, KeithVikings28 said: Well, luck is where opportunity and preparation meet. This is just an old saying. Could we have played better in our 3 losses? Yes. Was there opportunities to win? Yes. Luck has just not been in our favor. Bengals game, a fumble that should have been called down potentially lost us the game. Did it? We still would have needed to score so it’s unknown. We didn’t get to chance our “luck” at the end. Cardinals, we missed a FG. We tested our luck. But we came out unlucky. Do we call kicks luck? Does the missed FG mean the team wasn’t prepared right for that situation? Right now we look like the team that has put up the best fight against the Cardinals. Browns, the one called Holding, I’d call that one a little unlucky considering the statistics. On more plays than not, that is not called holding. Much like the last shot in the end zone isn’t usually called a PI. That would lead to another time where luck has been in the Browns favor and even adding onto it they gained by the missed holding on the offensive line. 8 point swing. Yet that doesn’t mean we turn around and end up winning this game, but on the last drive we probably could have kicked a field goal and the score would have been in our favor by a touchdown if he makes it. I at the end of the day just don’t see this as a “bad” team. I still see it as a playoff team, and I don’t see any coaching changes winning or losing any more games this year. I’m personally more than happy running with Zimmer going 9-8 10-7 then replacing him with someone on our staff for the rest of the year and ending up with the same record and then it will turn around and just be the same hire with the same staff. Let Zimmer coach the year. Anything that doesn’t lead to a 1 win playoff year at minimal, let the staff leave. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, KeithVikings28 said: If the Vikings lose Sunday do we all agree to clean house? It doesn't take a loss for me to agree that the team should clear house. I have thought that since before the start of the 2020 season. Many wanted to see a good house cleaning even earlier than that. On the other end of the spectrum, there are some fans that won't want a good house cleaning almost no matter the number of losses. There will always be an(other) excuse. If you are talking about firing Zimmer right away after the game, I am fairly indifferent on that. I don't really care what the timing of that coaching decision is so much as the dismissal of the GM, which can't happen soon enough as far as I am concerned. If I was given control of the team right now the very first thing that I would do would be to fire Rick Spielman and engage in an in-depth search for a new GM. I would let Zimmer continue coaching the team in the meantime if he wanted to do that. Ideally, I would have a new GM in place before the end of the season and that GM would be well along in the process of deciding on the next head coach heading into the offseason. If Zimmer wanted to stay until the new head coach was identified, I would be fine with that. The outcome of the Browns game wouldn't be the reason nor would the outcome of the game against the Lions have any bearing on it. There is nothing Rick Spielman can do before the bye that would change my mind about his fate. The only way he would stay on as the GM would be if I didn't get control of the team until the postseason. In that case I would wait for the postseason to end and then fire him at that point unless his team won it all. Edited October 5, 2021 by Cearbhall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Good lord, these boards are getting worse than political discussions. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticNorseman Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, KeithVikings28 said: If the Vikings lose Sunday do we all agree to clean house? If the team is 2-10 after 12 games, then yes. Otherwise, no. The dynamic of leading millionaires, selling tickets and purely winning is far more complex a combination than any of us fans will ever know. Put yourself in the Wilfs shoes . . . They'll lose their axes this year if they fire Speilman and Zimmer before season's end. You may have your opinion . . . I don't need to agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, KeithVikings28 said: Here’s the thing though, having a single workhorse RB is outdated. I would much rather do a RB by committee approach and spread those resources elsewhere. That’s what I saying is the team is poorly assembled. The Vikings obviously do not have a single workhorse RB, Mattison had 112 yards rushing and 59 yards receiving just the week before. Mind you they probably do not use him as much as they probably should and do not let both play as much as they should together in games but they have more than one RB on the team. And the poorly assembled thing would be the lacking OL still which has been a problem for a few years now. But yeah Cook did not fumble in Cinci and was on his butt so that should have been a win, Joseph should have made that kick so there is another win so technically the Vikings should be 3-1 now instead of 1-3 so yeah will see how the rest of the season goes. Sure they got the Lions next week so that should be a win but after that is damn hard with Carolina/Dallas/Baltimore/Chargers and Green Bay. So if they are indeed as bad as many say they will be 2-8 by week 11. Or if they win so of those games will see, but all those teams are pretty damn solid especially Dallas, Green Bay and Baltimore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikes_Bolts1228 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/3/2021 at 4:38 PM, babababa said: They stopped the Browns at the end of the 1st half but were aided by the refs. Dude, the Vikings scored 7 points. 0 after their first possession. Blame the refs all you want for the loss but if you can't score, you can't win. It wasn't the refs that stopped Minnesota from running the ball well. It wasn't the refs who caused Kirk to get hit 10 times. It wasn't the refs who completed 3rd down after 3rd down for the Browns. This loss is 100% NOT on the refs despite those two horrible calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikes_Bolts1228 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, KeithVikings28 said: If the Vikings lose Sunday do we all agree to clean house? Doesn't make sense to do it in season. If we had some hot shot coach in the wings who we wanted to give half the season to so we can see what we got, sure. But IMO, there's nobody in the organization who I'd be pressed to give the HC duties to. Andre Patterson would probably get the gig and he's 61 years old and not what we need to replace Zimmer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babababa Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said: Dude, the Vikings scored 7 points. 0 after their first possession. Blame the refs all you want for the loss but if you can't score, you can't win. It wasn't the refs that stopped Minnesota from running the ball well. It wasn't the refs who caused Kirk to get hit 10 times. It wasn't the refs who completed 3rd down after 3rd down for the Browns. This loss is 100% NOT on the refs despite those two horrible calls. Context: I was discussing the end of the first half's bearing on the outcome of the game -- nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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