BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 Going into this offseason I think their best shot probably seemed like "Get Dalton or some 20th ranked ish vet, get a second round rookie to develop" so I think they built in a LOT of Dalton into the plan for this year and then just didn't change much. If you think this is frustrating, picture the Giants with Fields and us rolling through Dalton, Foles and Kellen Mond or something. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted October 5, 2021 Author Share Posted October 5, 2021 3 hours ago, dll2000 said: I think the brass loves Pace. They want to keep him. I think if Pace wanted to distance himself from Nagy he could and keep his job. Pace just had a pair of pretty good drafts unless Jenkins doesn't come back. Problem for me is the whole Glennon plan was from Pace and he was all in on the Dalton plan too. Both ideas were crap. One thing to have an existing veteran QB to start ahead of an early pick for a year and another to bring in a journeyman and say that is your appointed veteran QB to learn from. Just sit back there while we bring him up to speed. He may have pushed it on Nagy and Nagy went along with it for all we know, though I don't believe that. I think Nagy thought he was going to recreate Mahomes by benching Fields as if that was what made Mahomes good. In all honesty how is this going to work long term? Our HC just showed the whole world he can't coach an offense. He needs his OC to do it for him. That is humiliating. How can we keep this guy? He has never helped with defense. How can Fields respect him going forward? People aren't thinking about all the angles here. Just rip the band aid off and make Lazor interim HC. Longer you wait the worse it will be. Maybe Lazor wins everyone over and gets the job after an interim year. Maybe not. But does anyone have faith in Nagy to carry this team forward at this point? I would say the fans don't and I doubt the players do. The McCaskeys do seem to like Pace and I do believe they may be grooming him to take over as Team President while Teddy Bears works on the Arlington project and with the CPD over the Soldier Field lease. Then we'd finally have an experienced football mind at the top and Teddy Bears can work in the areas where he's been most beneficial to the McCaskey Family fortunes. At this point in time it's pretty useless to speculate on whose idea Dalton was or even whose idea Foles was. I'm sure that based on his history doing it Pace has always felt the need to have a vet QB around and so there has been. The only problem is to a man his inexperienced QBs have always proven to be better than his experienced QBs and IMHO it's no different now. Fields is proving he's ready to start so why all the hesitation? Is it the schedule and knowing that once Fields is #1 that if he struggles against better teams it'll be tough to bench him in favor of Dalton. If that's their thinking I really don't believe that's gonna damage Fields psyche. He's always been successful and he knows he will be in the NFL too. He's not as fragile as Mitch was. I have no idea of exactly what's in their heads other than somehow finding ways to keep their jobs but in that regard Nagy seems far more vulnerable than Pace. Pace can be promoted upward whereas Nagy can't. By now I think we're seeing a very desperate Matt Nagy whose trying to sell people on his still being in charge and being the decision maker trying anyway he can to claim success and gain respect for "putting everything on the table" even when with the cards all laid Lazor is proven to have the better hand as the play caller and the true OC. I may have different thoughts about who should become an interim HC but I can't deny that Nagy should be done here. His best chance to holding on, if there's any chance at all, is to leave his hands off the offense as much as possible and immerse himself in being the guy the entire teams looks to for leadership. Be the cheerleader and a Club Dub DJ if that's what it takes. Get more involved with the defense and ST helping out where he can. In other words actually learn to become a true HC and let Lazor run that offense. But will he ever do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Nagy's ego is getting worse...according to this the problem with starting Fields is he prefers to be under centre and not in shotgun so likes the McVay/Shanahan elements of the offence more than the Reid/Nagy...if that is the case swallow your pride and get the guy under centre as much as possible...rip out the concepts that aren't working for him...adjust...coach...do your job to put Fields in a position to succeed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 So, not to alarm anyone but starting to feel like there is a non-zero chance that Nagy declares himself the playcaller AND the QB when he realizes the only things holding his fine swiss timepiece of an offense back is everyone else. Feel like that double doink broke Nagy's mind and now he's got multiple Nagy's arguing in his head. some want to win and some want to prove his offense is beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, RunningVaccs said: So, not to alarm anyone but starting to feel like there is a non-zero chance that Nagy declares himself the playcaller AND the QB when he realizes the only things holding his fine swiss timepiece of an offense back is everyone else. Feel like that double doink broke Nagy's mind and now he's got multiple Nagy's arguing in his head. some want to win and some want to prove his offense is beautiful. Let’s do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Rich Eisen and Chris Collinsworth get the big picture. Nagy does not. Watch: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Yeah, you'd have to assume that if you're thinking job security, do you want to show your promising young QB getting better, or do you want some losses where Andy Dalton keeps you in the game for a half? I guess maybe you save Fields for later in the season once all is lost, then if he wins you an upset you can sell the future? Eitehr of those possibilities are long term coaching malpractice, but hey, we've seen weird ****. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 14 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: Yeah, you'd have to assume that if you're thinking job security, do you want to show your promising young QB getting better, or do you want some losses where Andy Dalton keeps you in the game for a half? I guess maybe you save Fields for later in the season once all is lost, then if he wins you an upset you can sell the future? Eitehr of those possibilities are long term coaching malpractice, but hey, we've seen weird ****. I think he is married to his plan and he is vastly underestimating impact of extreme fan displeasure. He is thinking of mob rage as an abstract thing he can ignore and weather. You can sometimes do that in some circumstances. There comes a point when you cannot and he is on verge of dancing really close to that edge. Eisen and Collinsworth know better and keep trying to tell him. He is not listening. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted October 5, 2021 Author Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I think he is married to his plan and he is vastly underestimating impact of extreme fan displeasure. He is thinking of mob rage as an abstract thing he can ignore and weather. You can sometimes do that in some circumstances. There comes a point when you cannot and he is on verge of dancing really close to that edge. Eisen and Collinsworth know better and keep trying to tell him. He is not listening. Does he ever? At least not to Bears fans and which way the wind blows. He seems like he wants to be like Belichick but without all those regular seasons wins and Super Bowls he just comes off as arrogant and clueless. That's not a good combination. I think the previous video divulged some reasoning for why Dalton. Andy Dalton can and will play Matt Nagy's way. Justin Fields can't do that as easily if at all. So this past week they set it all up to play to Fields strengths as they should have and Lazor and Fields blew Nagy's way up . That had to be embarrassing to Nagy. Listen to him in his own presser still trying to claim credit for being the guy through whom all things must pass. He needs to appear in control even when we can see he's losing control. If he doesn't leave Lazor as his play caller and takes it back he's gonna play call himself right out of his job. Edited October 5, 2021 by soulman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 32 minutes ago, soulman said: Does he ever? At least not to Bears fans and which way the wind blows. He seems like he wants to be like Belichick but without all those regular seasons wins and Super Bowls he just comes off as arrogant and clueless. That's not a good combination. I think the previous video divulged some reasoning for why Dalton. Andy Dalton can and will play Matt Nagy's way. Justin Fields can't do that as easily if at all. So this past week they set it all up to play to Fields strengths as they should have and Lazor and Fields blew Nagy's way up . That had to be embarrassing to Nagy. Listen to him in his own presser still trying to claim credit for being the guy through whom all things must pass. He needs to appear in control even when we can see he's losing control. If he doesn't leave Lazor as his play caller and takes it back he's gonna play call himself right out of his job. If you win it doesn't matter what you say. If you lose everything you say is bad. The content or words themselves don't matter as much. That is what the brain hears. All I am saying is the mob has power once rage hits a certain boiling point. You think you can just ignore mass unhappiness with a policy as it is abstract and without true power, but it matters and has its own power once it hits a certain threshold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted October 5, 2021 Author Share Posted October 5, 2021 Matt Nagy is playing both ends against the middle in order to secure his job. That much is obvious. He'll play Dalton hoping he can prove his way was the solution. Dalton wins just enough for him to get another year. If that fails they start Fields under Lazor's direction and Nagy claims credit for that as well just as he did after Sunday's game. To me this is like calling out election fraud months ahead of an election. If you win you can say you'll ignore it. But if you lose you demand a recount, and another, and another until you either do win or you keep saying the other guy cheated and never concede. It's the same game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 I think one guy we should all be feeling sorry for right now is Dalton...he is being rolled out there when it is clear to everyone (except Nagy) that Fields should be the starter...even Dalton must know it...imagine his first pass of any game at Solider Field is an incompletion...dude will be booed out the building and it isn't even his fault...is is a dumb, stubborn egotistical coach who had done nothing to warrant us trusting "his way" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 11 hours ago, Madmike90 said: Nagy's ego is getting worse...according to this the problem with starting Fields is he prefers to be under centre and not in shotgun so likes the McVay/Shanahan elements of the offence more than the Reid/Nagy...if that is the case swallow your pride and get the guy under centre as much as possible...rip out the concepts that aren't working for him...adjust...coach...do your job to put Fields in a position to succeed. The idea a HC DOESN'T want a QB who os comfortable under center is mind blowing to me. Wasnt that one of the biggest drawbacks with the new rea of QBs? "They arent comfortable with dropbacks. They arent comfortable turning their backs to the defense. They cant take snaps smoothly enough." We have a young QB that doesnt have that for an issue... So thats an issue. Wth? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: I think one guy we should all be feeling sorry for right now is Dalton...he is being rolled out there when it is clear to everyone (except Nagy) that Fields should be the starter...even Dalton must know it...imagine his first pass of any game at Solider Field is an incompletion...dude will be booed out the building and it isn't even his fault...is is a dumb, stubborn egotistical coach who had done nothing to warrant us trusting "his way" Ive been a disappointment too... But I never was paid like him to be one. Lol Honestly I have no issue with him, he actually seems to be a cool guy and been great with Fields. Just a bad scenario. What sucks is that he probably had no idea so.eone like Fields would fall far enough for Chicago to get so he thought (as did Pace and Nagy) that this was an impossible situation to have happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, Madmike90 said: Nagy's ego is getting worse...according to this the problem with starting Fields is he prefers to be under centre and not in shotgun so likes the McVay/Shanahan elements of the offence more than the Reid/Nagy...if that is the case swallow your pride and get the guy under centre as much as possible...rip out the concepts that aren't working for him...adjust...coach...do your job to put Fields in a position to succeed. Maybe I missed the point, but I interpreted this as the Cleveland gameplan being a curveball that bounced 5 feet in front of the plate. Cleveland said they were expecting boots, etc, so Nagy tried to be cute and catch them off guard by going 4 wide, erc. I understand the logic of that, not sure I'd say it was ego-driven though. Clearly was a mistake, however. Edited October 5, 2021 by G08 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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