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Week 5 GDT - Arizona Cardinals vs San Francisco 49ers


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I keep rewatching every throw Lance made during the game and I just don't understand why Kyle isn't rolling Lance out. He keeps him in the pocket until it breaks down then he can roll out. Is Kyle trying to keep Lance in the pocket on purpose? Seems like he wants him to try to win only in pocket maybe to develop him. only thing I can think of. Lol

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To me Kyle used this game to allow Trey to throw and have the ball in his hand as much as possible. If he is going to play let's maximize the reps in real game action. High pressure situation let's go for it on 4th down 5 times. Give Trey the experience. That was the offensive game plan. The play calling makes no sense otherwise. We rushed the ball 12 times with Mitchell, Sermon and Juice. With a run oriented head coach? With a rookie QB. Lol he wanted to attack Treys weaknesses let him learn regardless if he failed. That's how they called plays. 😂 

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Anyone think this Lance “injury” might be a little overblown to take the pressure off the fact that the fans and the media are pushing for Lance to start? I know, I may have my tin foil hat on and everything but it makes sense. I know Kyle wasn’t necessarily going to announce the starter so the Colts had to prep for two QBs but I think the injury kind of removed the QB controversy talk. Anyway, Colts looked solid tonight and we better be ready to rock with whoever is at QB. 

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15 minutes ago, 49to5er said:

Anyone think this Lance “injury” might be a little overblown to take the pressure off the fact that the fans and the media are pushing for Lance to start? I know, I may have my tin foil hat on and everything but it makes sense. I know Kyle wasn’t necessarily going to announce the starter so the Colts had to prep for two QBs but I think the injury kind of removed the QB controversy talk. Anyway, Colts looked solid tonight and we better be ready to rock with whoever is at QB. 

Don't think it's a conspiracy, but I do think Trey is gonna fit in just fine on this team. 

Funny-681.gif

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57 minutes ago, 49erurtaza said:

I'll say this once Kyle realizes if he hasn't yet, that we won't make the playoffs with Jimmy. Trey will start rest of season.

I could not agree more. 

Right now we have two very limited QBs on the roster.  

One who does not handle pressure well, who operates "the offense" but doesnt make enough wow plays relative to the number of dumb turnovers he has. Wildly inconsistent. Can get the ball out on time but constantly taking check downs and not driving the ball down field enough. Offense feels very limited and will only go as far as the other players around him take it. Best case, he is a distributor of the football. No Kittle makes it that much harder for a distributor of the football (who doesnt make plus plays on his own) to have success. Lets not forget that he DOESNT PROTECT THE FOOTBALL. Way too many turnovers!

Then we have a rookie QB who has severe accuracy issues. His throwing mechanics are funky and his release is slow, which somehow is worse than what we saw during the offseason from him. His throwing mechanics look like they reverted back to what they were at NDSU. The accuracy inconsistency makes it hard to operate "the offense" that is based on a lot of timing and precision of underneath routes with yards after catch, but he will make the occasional wow throws or big runs (which are the reason you drafted him!)

Mentally, Trey is doing very well. He is seeing the field and going through his reads. He is not a one read QB and his limitations right now are purely due to his mechanics and his lack of experience. I would argue that he has been practicing his mechanics without live bullets for so long that it makes sense they reverted back to some degree. He essentially took a year off to focus only on his mechanics, so I am holding out hope that they will get smoothed out sooner rather than later and that it wont be a multi-year process to get his accuracy to a passable level. 

Its not like he looks lost. You can tell he soaks up information well and is quick on his feet from a mental standpoint. You cant fake that type of stuff and its usually the type of stuff that takes YEARS for rookie QBs to figure out. 

Bottom line is that Kyle has not been out coaching teams this year. It just straight up hasnt happened on offense. JG requires a good supporting cast and for WRs to get schemed open. He doesnt make plays by himself. It takes the rest of the offense and also Kyle calling a great play for JG to have success. Even then, we dont get enough chunk plays that it requires 10 types of those plays in a row for us to score touchdowns and then Garoppolo STILL turns the ball over at a high clip. If you arent making plus plays, and you arent protecting the football, then what exactly are you doing???

So if you are going to start a limited QB it should be with the guy who has a path to not being limited, who doesnt need everything to be perfect, who will probably turn the ball over LESS than the veteran, who ALSO will be a better player for it over the long term. If he fails, you know what you need to work on in the offseason and what style of players you need to surround him with. The offense should evolve over the next few years based on strengths and weaknesses and that could mean potential personnel changes might be necessary. 

Its very clear based on the way Kyle has done things that Lance isnt going to learn anything on the bench. Otherwise he would not have looked so bad out of the gates in the second half against Seattle. 

The gameplan this week was not good. No excuses, it was bad. Kyle needs to get it sorted out real quick. The bye came at a great time, but Trey getting hurt puts a real damper on the whole thing. I wanted him to really put in that work over the bye week when most guys travel and go places. I have said before that I dont think JG is a tireless worker because he regressed significantly during an offseason when everyone had to do their own work outs from home. So I was really hoping that Trey would show up to the facility and stake his claim to being QB1. I guess he can still show up, or maybe the injury is an excuse to allow him to come into the facility when otherwise it would be against league rules to do so?? Because injured players can come in to get treatment on their injuries but I dont think we are allowed to meet with players during the bye per the CBA. Probably not true at all and that he genuinely has a knee issue, but maybe this is a plus of him being slightly banged up?? 

Jimmy Garoppolo would have very clearly kept us in QB purgatory if he wasnt so injury prone. Even then, we still had to trade 2 future firsts to move up to get his replacement. Maybe if he was more durable he wouldnt be the limited QB he is now, idk. in hindsight, 2017 Garoppolo was a mirage.

Right now we are in QB limbo. We have no offensive identity because we are trying to have our cake and eat it too. Its not as bad as qb purgatory, but we need to hard commit to one guy, and its been very obvious for over 2 seasons that Kyle is not fully committed to Garoppolo. For that reason we should have really just moved on in the offseason. Should have traded him for whatever you can get and be done with it. 

I swear, if our intention this year was to inflate JGs trade market.... 

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1 minute ago, N4L said:

I could not agree more. 

Right now we have two very limited QBs on the roster.  

One who does not handle pressure well, who operates "the offense" but doesnt make enough wow plays relative to the number of dumb turnovers he has. Wildly inconsistent. Can get the ball out on time but constantly taking check downs and not driving the ball down field enough. Offense feels very limited and will only go as far as the other players around him take it. Best case, he is a distributor of the football. No Kittle makes it that much harder for a distributor of the football (who doesnt make plus plays on his own) to have success. Lets not forget that he DOESNT PROTECT THE FOOTBALL. Way too many turnovers!

Then we have a rookie QB who has severe accuracy issues. His throwing mechanics are funky and his release is slow, which somehow is worse than what we saw during the offseason from him. His throwing mechanics look like they reverted back to what they were at NDSU. The accuracy inconsistency makes it hard to operate "the offense" that is based on a lot of timing and precision of underneath routes with yards after catch, but he will make the occasional wow throws or big runs (which are the reason you drafted him!)

Mentally, Trey is doing very well. He is seeing the field and going through his reads. He is not a one read QB and his limitations right now are purely due to his mechanics and his lack of experience. I would argue that he has been practicing his mechanics without live bullets for so long that it makes sense they reverted back to some degree. He essentially took a year off to focus only on his mechanics, so I am holding out hope that they will get smoothed out sooner rather than later and that it wont be a multi-year process to get his accuracy to a passable level. 

Its not like he looks lost. You can tell he soaks up information well and is quick on his feet from a mental standpoint. You cant fake that type of stuff and its usually the type of stuff that takes YEARS for rookie QBs to figure out. 

Bottom line is that Kyle has not been out coaching teams this year. It just straight up hasnt happened on offense. JG requires a good supporting cast and for WRs to get schemed open. He doesnt make plays by himself. It takes the rest of the offense and also Kyle calling a great play for JG to have success. Even then, we dont get enough chunk plays that it requires 10 types of those plays in a row for us to score touchdowns and then Garoppolo STILL turns the ball over at a high clip. If you arent making plus plays, and you arent protecting the football, then what exactly are you doing???

So if you are going to start a limited QB it should be with the guy who has a path to not being limited, who doesnt need everything to be perfect, who will probably turn the ball over LESS than the veteran, who ALSO will be a better player for it over the long term. If he fails, you know what you need to work on in the offseason and what style of players you need to surround him with. The offense should evolve over the next few years based on strengths and weaknesses and that could mean potential personnel changes might be necessary. 

Its very clear based on the way Kyle has done things that Lance isnt going to learn anything on the bench. Otherwise he would not have looked so bad out of the gates in the second half against Seattle. 

The gameplan this week was not good. No excuses, it was bad. Kyle needs to get it sorted out real quick. The bye came at a great time, but Trey getting hurt puts a real damper on the whole thing. I wanted him to really put in that work over the bye week when most guys travel and go places. I have said before that I dont think JG is a tireless worker because he regressed significantly during an offseason when everyone had to do their own work outs from home. So I was really hoping that Trey would show up to the facility and stake his claim to being QB1. I guess he can still show up, or maybe the injury is an excuse to allow him to come into the facility when otherwise it would be against league rules to do so?? Because injured players can come in to get treatment on their injuries but I dont think we are allowed to meet with players during the bye per the CBA. Probably not true at all and that he genuinely has a knee issue, but maybe this is a plus of him being slightly banged up?? 

Jimmy Garoppolo would have very clearly kept us in QB purgatory if he wasnt so injury prone. Even then, we still had to trade 2 future firsts to move up to get his replacement. Maybe if he was more durable he wouldnt be the limited QB he is now, idk. in hindsight, 2017 Garoppolo was a mirage.

Right now we are in QB limbo. We have no offensive identity because we are trying to have our cake and eat it too. Its not as bad as qb purgatory, but we need to hard commit to one guy, and its been very obvious for over 2 seasons that Kyle is not fully committed to Garoppolo. For that reason we should have really just moved on in the offseason. Should have traded him for whatever you can get and be done with it. 

I swear, if our intention this year was to inflate JGs trade market.... 

I definitely think inflating JG’s trade market was a part of the thought process. The Chiefs got Kendall Fuller and a third round pick for Alex after they made him look closer to the plus side of viable than he really was. We got a second for about the same reason. Trades for Bridgewater and Bradford were in the same mold. But those are all older examples. Teams don’t trade second rounders plus for limited guys with above average QB contracts any more. This was a year where teams were bloated with QBs having starting roles penciled in. Big Ben still hanging around, Tom Brady immortal, Sam Darnold still kicking the bucket, Daniel Jones still being evaluated. There were only 3 or 4 reasonable candidates and several of those grabbed rookies to close their JG doors. So, the FO wanted to pump Jimmy’s value (as a secondary benefit, the main one was probably hoping to rekindle 2019) and sell to more of a seller’s market when more of those dudes were off the books and the only way to replenish was with a relatively mediocre QB class coming up. Which isn’t bad reasoning, but man, does Jimmy G make everything look like work when you aren’t scheming him free guys super wide open 30 yards downfield on your key one or two deep shots (which are now the key deep shots of a 1/4 of the NFL, so everyone practices against them weekly) or getting chunk outside zone running plays. And man, does he look not much better than replacement level dudes like Jacoby Brissett. It’s getting to be a harder and harder sell every day. 

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Quote

Did he already have an MRI on that?

"Yes, he did."

And so, it's obviously ruled out that it's a long-term injury?

"Yeah, it's not a long-term injury. But he'll have to stay here on the Bye Week, get treatment and everything. So, we should have a good idea by the end of next week, whether he's got a chance for Indy or not. If he doesn't, they told me it should be like a one to two week thing, but possibly just one."

Hmmmnnn 

Treys injury forcing him to stay in the building during the bye week.... 

I swear I saw this after my other post haha

Transcript: What Kyle Shanahan said the day after the 49ers' loss to the Cardinals | 49ers Webzone

Quote

"No updates on Hurd. Jeff Wilson, still on the same deal. We're hoping for late November on Jeff Wilson."

uggghhhh late november for Jeff wilson jr 

really great thread here

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1 hour ago, N4L said:

 

 

Hmmmnnn 

Treys injury forcing him to stay in the building during the bye week.... 

I swear I saw this after my other post haha

Transcript: What Kyle Shanahan said the day after the 49ers' loss to the Cardinals | 49ers Webzone

uggghhhh late november for Jeff wilson jr 

really great thread here

Ooof, Trey made a lot of really gross O Line play look more palatable than it could have been. Like, how much worse can Brunskill be than Jaylon Moore right now (am ignoring Aaron Banks because limited evidence suggests that he is terrible atm)? This is tangential and I’m pretty sure I got annoyed by it at the time - but why the heck was Banks taken over Creed Humphrey? Let go for just a moment that this is looking at one individual player over another in a crap shoot event. And never mind the other pure guards, or tackles that could play guard for a year or two. Those would be good to have instead of Banks, too. The first point in Humphrey’s favor is that if you are looking for only a guard when the ghost of Alex Mack is your starting center and Brunskill is your emergency, you are doing it wrong. And Humphrey had already proven himself on a ton of snaps to be a versatile, solid player at the inside OL positions of need who wouldn’t need to lose weight and could probably play right away based on available evidence. He had a touch of oomph for power plays. He wasn’t a pure outside zone guy, but he could do that okay (it’s not like Banks was second-leveling people to death in the run game). Humphrey looked the part at the Senior Bowl. He was higher on pretty much every board than Banks and played an eventually more valuable position. Forget that Humphrey’s looked pretty darn good this year - the pick just made more sense at the time even without hindsight. 

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9 hours ago, 49erurtaza said:

I'll say this once Kyle realizes if he hasn't yet, that we won't make the playoffs with Jimmy. Trey will start rest of season.

@49to5er lol imagine if Kyle is BSing lol.

I think that we make the playoffs with Jimmy...or are at least very much in the hunt. Even though Cincinnati has been pretty impressive this year, I still believe that the Jags, Bengals, Texans, Falcons should be games that we win, so as far as I look at it, we are basically 6-3. That leaves 8 games where I think that we need to go 4-4, and I don't think that's impossible. Colts, Bears, Titans, Vikings, Cards and Seahawks again...none of these 6 are egregiously difficult wins. 

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6 hours ago, JIllg said:

This is tangential and I’m pretty sure I got annoyed by it at the time - but why the heck was Banks taken over Creed Humphrey?

I've thought about this, and as much as Kyle and company want to deny it and say that they plan was always to have Banks learn, I call BS. I think Banks was taken because they thought he would be an immediate starter and there was 0 chance that Creed was ever going to come in and start right away for Shanny. Too much on the plate of a Shanny center. It was always going to be Mack. Just so happened that Banks turned out to not be the player they thought they were drafting. 

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40 minutes ago, Forge said:

I think that we make the playoffs with Jimmy...or are at least very much in the hunt. Even though Cincinnati has been pretty impressive this year, I still believe that the Jags, Bengals, Texans, Falcons should be games that we win, so as far as I look at it, we are basically 6-3. That leaves 8 games where I think that we need to go 4-4, and I don't think that's impossible. Colts, Bears, Titans, Vikings, Cards and Seahawks again...none of these 6 are egregiously difficult wins. 

In the hunt makes sense, I just get a sense this can turn ether way. 

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