Our Nightmare is Over: Fields is the guy

[dll2000]

7 minutes ago, soulman said:

Since I have my doubts they'll fire Nagy during the season this should be his challenge for the remainder of the year.  Coach your team coach.

It's fine to have all things funnel through him as long as the reason for doing it is to keep him in the loop and not because he has veto power over decisions that make perfect sense to his staff.  If they're selling collaboration then it needs to be total collaboration not just collaboration when Matt Nagy feels like it.

I get the part that he enjoys calling plays and that it's fun for him.  But he's not very good at it and this is about winning games not making certain Matt Nagy is enjoying himself.  There are still more than enough critical decisions for him to make during the course of a season to keep him occupied with that instead.

IMHO if he survives this season it will be because the less he does to guide the offense on game days and the more he coaches the entire game results in a better team whose winning more often or at the very least competing to win in every game right on down to the final gun. That can get him another year.

I don't think Bears will fire Nagy in season unless team collapses.   Which could conceivably happen with this tough schedule.  I am just saying I would let him go.  

I don't think they are going to tell Nagy he has no veto power over decisions either.   If you are going to do that you may as well fire him.   No head coach will take that much I don't think.

[Sugashane]

11 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I don't think Bears will fire Nagy in season unless team collapses.   Which could conceivably happen with this tough schedule.  I am just saying I would let him go.  

I don't think they are going to tell Nagy he has no veto power over decisions either.   If you are going to do that you may as well fire him.   No head coach will take that much I don't think.

I think a lot of weight will (and should) go with the direction the offense and Fields takes over the course of the season. Fields is more important to the franchise than Nagy. If Nagy/Lazor can get the offense to a respectable level then their jobs are likely safe. If we have a bottom 10 offense then they should be booted. Nagy hasn't done well overall as a playcaller since he got to Chicago and I'm not crowning Lazor until I see him get the offense moving against a good defense. 

I know the OL is pretty bad overall but that is the nature of the game. They can run block pretty well and have a talented WR corps. Kmet doesn't seem special but when he gets chances he has done ok, maybe he and Fields build a connection. No one is expecting KC or TB production. But embarrassing performances on a quarterly basis arent excusable anymore. Half your games not being able to score over 21 points isn't excusable anymore. 

If this franchise is seeking to keep that status then it deserves to remain in football purgatory.  

[dll2000]

2 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I think a lot of weight will (and should) go with the direction the offense and Fields takes over the course of the season. Fields is more important to the franchise than Nagy. If Nagy/Lazor can get the offense to a respectable level then their jobs are likely safe. If we have a bottom 10 offense then they should be booted. Nagy hasn't done well overall as a playcaller since he got to Chicago and I'm not crowning Lazor until I see him get the offense moving against a good defense. 

I know the OL is pretty bad overall but that is the nature of the game. They can run block pretty well and have a talented WR corps. Kmet doesn't seem special but when he gets chances he has done ok, maybe he and Fields build a connection. No one is expecting KC or TB production. But embarrassing performances on a quarterly basis arent excusable anymore. Half your games not being able to score over 21 points isn't excusable anymore. 

If this franchise is seeking to keep that status then it deserves to remain in football purgatory.  

With Monty hurt we have ARob and Mooney and just a bunch of guys to be honest (not counting Fields).

As far as Oline - I think as Peters gets into shape he will be good he is already looking better, but he isn't going to hold up at his age for a full season.    I think Ifedi will get better too, remember he didn't work out or practice for like a month just before season.

I think Daniels to some extent and especially Mustipher are simply underpowered strength wise for NFL level.   Whitehair is decent to good.  But a lot of teams have O line problems.

 

 

 

[soulman]

26 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I don't think Bears will fire Nagy in season unless team collapses.   Which could conceivably happen with this tough schedule.  I am just saying I would let him go.  

I don't think they are going to tell Nagy he has no veto power over decisions either.   If you are going to do that you may as well fire him.   No head coach will take that much I don't think.

I believe his contract says that he does have veto power or words to that effect.  Coaches coach while owners won and GMs act as a combination of an HR Dept. and an Accounting Dept. for cap decisions.  But if this is truly a collaborative effort between Pace and Nagy then I have assume Pace also has the right to provide input regarding coaching decisions at least as they relate to how personnel are being used.

So for me it's not so much not having it as it is being very judicious about how and when it's used.  If he chooses to use it to micro-manage the roles of others on his staff he risks it all coming back and landing in his lap anyway.  Just as a good manager always hopes he doesn't have a need to exercise his veto power so should an NFL HC as well IMHO.  Good leaders can always influence decisions without making them.

[Bfan]

 

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

1) Offense does demonstrably better with Lazor having greater influence we have several games of data for that now.  True or False?

2) Offense does mostly poorly under sole influence of Nagy.  True or False? 

I agree with both of these but that means Lazor is a better OC not necessarily a better coach.

3) Nagy was adamant just earlier this week and after game film that Dalton start and then suddenly changed his mind for reasons.   True or False?   

Fields knew on Tuesday night so that strikes me as after Nagy reviewd the film on Monday and consulted with his staff he told Dalton and Fields on Tuesday. That sounds like a headcoach to me.

Now that being said my opinion is that Nagy is not best coach for the job based on a wide variety of things I have observed over last several years.   But going off just the above why would we keep Nagy if Lazor is demonstrably the better coach between the two?   

I agree that Lazor is the better OC but what makes him a better HC? Maybe Lazor will suck as much as Nagy if he tried to do both.

Nagy's administrative skills are not so valuable that we can't live without him and him having title of HC means he can monkey wrench better plans and is a potential anchor on Lazor's game plans and Field's development.  

If it was up to me I would fire Nagy now and make Lazor interim head coach and keep rest of staff.   Rip the band aid off now.   If Lazor shows improvement and development of Fields hire him full time. If not you have a ton of time to do a thorough search for a replacement.    

I will say that team does do better when he is paying attention to flow of game and not calling plays and he does a decent job of managing game when he is not calling plays.  That is a credit to Nagy.   Again that is not so valuable that someone else couldn't do it or it couldn't be done by cooperation within the staff.     HS teams do it all the time without benefit of advanced communication tech and tv replays.

So why is it that most NFL teams have both a HC and an OC unlike most HS teams?

 

 

If Fields improves on schedule, the offense continues to improve and the over all team stays motivate and runs efficiently why would we fire anyone?  These are big ifs but that should be the bar these guys are held to.

[dll2000]

17 minutes ago, Bfan said:

 

 

If Fields improves on schedule, the offense continues to improve and the over all team stays motivate and runs efficiently why would we fire anyone?  These are big ifs but that should be the bar these guys are held to.

If that is what happens no one will be fired.

 

[Heinz D.]

10 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I don't think Bears will fire Nagy in season unless team collapses.   

Exactly. And I'd be willing to bet money the team doesn't collapse. Too much character, too much talent. And Nagy is a good motivator, and decent overall strategist. 

10 hours ago, dll2000 said:

With Monty hurt we have ARob and Mooney and just a bunch of guys to be honest (not counting Fields).

Most teams in the league would be pleased with Williams and Herbert as their backup plan. And Cohen will be back at some point. (Although he might be as worthless as he was last season...we'll have to wait and see.)

10 hours ago, dll2000 said:

As far as Oline - I think as Peters gets into shape he will be good he is already looking better, but he isn't going to hold up at his age for a full season.    I think Ifedi will get better too, remember he didn't work out or practice for like a month just before season.

Peters is clearly improving, and I wouldn't write him off. 

More importantly, reinforcements are coming.

9 hours ago, Bfan said:

If Fields improves on schedule, the offense continues to improve and the over all team stays motivate and runs efficiently why would we fire anyone?  These are big ifs but that should be the bar these guys are held to.

If the team keeps chugging along, and the offense keeps improving (and it probably will)...then no one gets fired. As painful as that is. 

[soulman]

22 hours ago, dll2000 said:

This is why Nagy is so bummed though.   

I mean media gave credit to Freddie Kitchens over Hue Jackson for offensive turn around in Cleveland after a horrendous start and Hue was quickly shown the door once that narrative took hold.   We even had same situation where Hue was insisting on playing Tyrod over number overall pick for awhile.   Though he got excited when Mayfield went in while Nagy was insisting he would go back.   

Clearly they overestimated Kitchens skill set though.   He wasn't ready to be a HC.

Nagy is probably lucky Bears haven't done Hard Knocks or the like, like Hue did.   People would spin those clips hard now.   

 

 

 

AND.....the Bears are owned by the McCaskeys who seem even more willing to accept mediocrity than Bears fans.

How long has the media and Bears fans been pummeling Nagy and Pace over doing nothing all summer long to prepare both Fields and the offense for his eventual take over?  Did they really believe they could just play Dalton all 17 games while keeping Fields in check?

I'm also less than convinced that it would be wise to make Bill Lazor the interim HC.  I think it's unfair to him.  He and Flip will have enough on their plates just rebuilding the offense around Fields.  Let's see how that goes first and in the end he may not be HC material either.

Nagy's contract runs through 2022.  If he's willing to let Lazor have more say and control of the offense and will start focusing on his entire team there's little reason to fire him unless he reneges on all of that and grabs control again.  Then they can debate whether or not to fire him.

Edited October 8, 2021 by soulman

[dll2000]

10 hours ago, soulman said:

AND.....the Bears are owned by the McCaskeys who seem even more willing to accept mediocrity than Bears fans.

How long has the media and Bears fans been pummeling Nagy and Pace over doing nothing all summer long to prepare both Fields and the offense for his eventual take over?  Did they really believe they could just play Dalton all 17 games while keeping Fields in check?

I'm also less than convinced that it would be wise to make Bill Lazor the interim HC.  I think it's unfair to him.  He and Flip will have enough on their plates just rebuilding the offense around Fields.  Let's see how that goes first and in the end he may not be HC material either.

Nagy's contract runs through 2022.  If he's willing to let Lazor have more say and control of the offense and will start focusing on his entire team there's little reason to fire him unless he reneges on all of that and grabs control again.  Then they can debate whether or not to fire him.

Have they announced his contract details?  

[soulman]

56 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Have they announced his contract details?  

Back when he was hired yeah.  But I doubt he's getting $6-$7 mil per year.

How much does Matt Nagy make a year?

• In 2018, Matt Nagy signed a five-year contract with Chicago Bears. As of now, the financial portion of Nagy's contract is unknown. It's estimated the average NFL head coaching salary is roughly $6 million to $7 million.

Edited October 8, 2021 by soulman

[Ty21]

Even with Fields in, this team is still a nightmare lol 

[Ty21]

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Have they announced his contract details?  

Are you saying we should crowdsource and buy out his contract 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

The possibility that the Bears will lurch into some success, or Fields will be exciting enough to keep Nagy around next year has hovered in the back of my mind and it didn't seem that bad, but I cam across a quote from Fields that is just damning. He's referring here to Bill Lazor. 

 

His voice is always calm,” Fields said. “That’s the one thing I like. With Coach (Nagy), it’s hard for him to be calm if he has focus on the defense and focus on special teams. Bill’s voice is calm. He’s up there in the box seeing the field well. And he did a great job calling plays today.”

 

Not sure how to interpret that as anything other than the players know Nagy sucks as a play caller. Suprised he said it, but if you're George McCaskey, what asset do you value more: the nice CEO but terrible offensive mind coach, or the exciting young QB who could be your guy for a decade or more?

[dll2000]

52 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

The possibility that the Bears will lurch into some success, or Fields will be exciting enough to keep Nagy around next year has hovered in the back of my mind and it didn't seem that bad, but I cam across a quote from Fields that is just damning. He's referring here to Bill Lazor. 

 

His voice is always calm,” Fields said. “That’s the one thing I like. With Coach (Nagy), it’s hard for him to be calm if he has focus on the defense and focus on special teams. Bill’s voice is calm. He’s up there in the box seeing the field well. And he did a great job calling plays today.”

 

Not sure how to interpret that as anything other than the players know Nagy sucks as a play caller. Suprised he said it, but if you're George McCaskey, what asset do you value more: the nice CEO but terrible offensive mind coach, or the exciting young QB who could be your guy for a decade or more?

To be fair the issue there is more with being both HC (overall game manager) and playcaller and Nagy not being able to do both properly than Nagy sucking. 

Maybe if Nagy was just OC and play caller he would be quite good at it.

 

[soulman]

10 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

To be fair the issue there is more with being both HC (overall game manager) and playcaller and Nagy not being able to do both properly than Nagy sucking. 

Maybe if Nagy was just OC and play caller he would be quite good at it.

 

I'd rather not find out.

During the next four games we should get a pretty good picture of how this new arrangement is gonna work out.  One of the knocks against Lazor's success with Mitch last season was the caliber of the competition played.  That won't be the case right now.  These are four tough games coming up with a wrap up game with Pitt right before bye week.

If Lazor is creating game plans and calling plays for Fields while Nagy is settling in to both advise on offense and coach his entire team I want to see what the results are over this 4-5 game period.  I expect to see some ups and downs from Fields but is the offense progressing under those two as opposed to how stagnant it was under Nagy.  That the question we need to have answered.