Week 5 GDT: Raiders (3-1) vs Bears (2-2)

[NCOUGHMAN]

6 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Best 5? Elumeneor felt like he was 2 and James 5. 

Replacing Pleatherwood with Random Parker feels like filling a pothole with peanut butter but at least it's something.

Lol perfect timing for bears dline 

[big_palooka]

3 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

Really now or never for RANDOM Parker. Pass protection been iffy in his time but he does do a good job run blocking. Hoping with him and Leatherwood on that side they can open up some holes in the run game. 

FIFY

[NCOUGHMAN]

Who’s available at rb besides drake?

[big_palooka]

Just now, NCOUGHMAN said:

Who’s available at rb besides drake?

Jacobs and Richard is back this week it sounds.

[NCOUGHMAN]

5 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Jacobs and Richard is back this week it sounds.

I’m so done with josh he’s basically a glorified fb rn just let carr throw it 40 times. Where’s ragas is he really not ready 

[SilverNBlackFan]

Wouldn't be surprised if we tried to move Darius Philon to RT next. You know Cable loves his conversion projects.

[Jeremy408]

41 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

 

"We're doing horrible at blocking we need to make some changes. I have a great plan here it goes:

Step 1: Let's bench our best lineman other than our left tackle,

Step 2: Lets replace him with a guy we drafted to play right tackle

Step 3: Lets then replace the guy we drafted to play right tackle with the person who was the reason why we drafted that guy to play right tackle

while leave the veteran center on the bench and leave our two worst lineman(Simpson & James) in the starting lineup"

[Jeremy408]

49 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

 

Will say though is you have to respect the fact that they're not going to just leave them there and try to be prideful this year and that they want to win now at any cost

[reddevil]

This is wild. 

I am not a Leatherwood apologist or anything and he was the one pick I really didn’t want in the draft (because  it was so obvious we were going to pick him). But I think this is too early to move him - particularly when they haven’t tried to:

a) bring in Martin for James - which just has to be the first thing the coaches try. He has absolutely no redeeming qualities. At least there have been 1 or 2 plays from Leatherwood, as poor as he’s been

b) scheme and plan to offer him support when he’s gone up against some of the best pass rushers in the league. He’s been left out to dry. Inept from the coaches if you ask me

Plus, what if he craps the bed at guard? The transition isn’t as straightforward as people are making. Will he pick up blitzes from there easily? This could completely break him.

Plus, plus - does anyone believe that Parker will fare any better??!?

[big_palooka]

34 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

Will say though is you have to respect the fact that they're not going to just leave them there and try to be prideful this year and that they want to win now at any cost

Meh... I can't take them serious until they check their egos with regards to James. It's so Gruden... literally said Monday, he's not going to panic with the Oline. Week 5 and he's already moving his #17 overall pick to G and starting another bum he over drafted. 

It'd be one thing if they signed a vet RT and moved Pleatherwood to RG, but as you said... he's being replaced by the guy they spent the #17 overall to replace in the first place. That's the most Raiders thing I've ever seen. 

[ronjon1990]

4 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Meh... I can't take them serious until they check their egos with regards to James. It's so Gruden... literally said Monday, he's not going to panic with the Oline. Week 5 and he's already moving his #17 overall pick to G and starting another bum he over drafted. 

It'd be one thing if they signed a vet RT and moved Pleatherwood to RG, but as you said... he's being replaced by the guy they spent the #17 overall to replace in the first place. That's the most Raiders thing I've ever seen. 

I'd say James belongs in the LFL, but his aim is too off to even be useful there.

[dante9876]

53 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

"We're doing horrible at blocking we need to make some changes. I have a great plan here it goes:

Step 1: Let's bench our best lineman other than our left tackle,

Step 2: Lets replace him with a guy we drafted to play right tackle

Step 3: Lets then replace the guy we drafted to play right tackle with the person who was the reason why we drafted that guy to play right tackle

while leave the veteran center on the bench and leave our two worst lineman(Simpson & James) in the starting lineup"

I think they still holding out hope for incognito. So if they do it this way they don't have to move Leatherwood to both guard spots. You just take Simpson out. 

[Jeremy408]

1 minute ago, dante9876 said:

I think they still holding out hope for incognito. So if they do it this way they don't have to move Leatherwood to both guard spots. You just take Simpson out. 

Oh yeah that's a given but it's like in the meantime Elumanor has to be better than him 

[Mr Raider]

I think moving Leatherwood inside is a good move. I honestly think the plan from the start probably should have been to play him at RG (well the plan after drafting him, prior to the draft the plan should have been take a legit first round talent). But once Good went down the possibility of that ending up the call made it much more difficult. 

I'm not really worried about Leatherwood being moved to RG in a vacuum in relation to him being a bust or anything. His level of play is obviously concerning in that regard, and him moving to the spot to replace a guy who's been probably the 2nd best OL we have (though that is admittedly saying very little) is a little concerning. But just the move of him switching inside isn't all that concerning. It is not at all uncommon for guys drafted to be the long term OT to play their first season inside. It happens somewhat regularly, and some guys that went on to become elite OT started their career at guard. It should see Leatherwoods individual performance increase simply because playing OG is easier than OT in the NFL. Add on the fact Leatherwood has experience playing on the interior and I don't think it's a reach to say he could go from pretty dang bad to at least solid. The move inside could also significantly help cutting down on the penalties. A lot of those false starts and holds come from a guy that is thinking too much and trying to give themselves every edge possible. On the interior it may be easier for him to stop thinking and just play. Especially at OG and our need for the running game to show any life we can worry less about him getting Carr killed and say go create running lanes. 

Leatherwood absolutely was a reach where he was picked. We all knew it then. It still is the case now. But that is done. We can't take it back. Now we need to figure out how to get the most out of him. Hopefully long term he can still be the RT he was drafted to be, because drafting a guard at 17 is just terrible value and a move I would never make regardless of how good the prospect is. Ultimately though if him playing guard is the difference from him being a good player or a bad one you have to accept that and move forward. Though the front office and staff needs to be held accountable for that being the result. Even with Leatherwood being a clear reach, he still was a very talented guy at Alabama. Playing on the interior should help the game slow down some. Hopefully play to his strengths and mask some of his weaknesses. 

I and others have mentioned that Elumenour has been the 2nd best on a terrible group, but he hasn't at all been good either. Leatherwood still would have been a 2nd or 3rd round OT and maybe viewed even higher in comparison to prospects strictly as a guard. I can understand the move. And I don't think it's a stretch to believe that Leatherwood has the tools, especially inside to be an upgrade over Elumeneor. He hasn't been great, and it's not like he is some proven commodity at the NFL level. 

The much bigger concerns are Parker now being the RT. As bad as Leatherwood has looked at RT, Parker has virtually zero history in regular season games of looking any better than Leatherwood, and he very likely doesn't have even the possibility of growth and development being older and in the league longer. Although, I may be misremembering but didn't Parker play pretty well at RT in the preseason? I am not at all holding my breath, but maybe the light has finally gone on for him, he isn't an old player by any means and he can be at least an average RT for us. But man, it makes me nervous picturing him out there at RT based on what we have seen. I suppose with Leatherwood playing like one of the worst RT in the league there isn't anywhere to go but up, and even if he is equally as bad at RT if Leatherwood moving inside helps him play his best football and contributes to him being an average or good player the overall for the OL will be a benefit. Regardless I do think there should be some small praise for understanding how much of a problem the OL has been for this team and not waiting until it has cost us multiple losses to shake things up and try anything different. However not too much praise because these guys are still the players the front office and coaching staff picked. I will cut them some slack with Goods injury, he's a very solid OG and OT and losing him really hurt. I don't give them any pass for Richies injury though. At this point in his career a good staff builds a team with him missing serious time as almost a given. So I do like they are at least trying something different to improve the OL and get the best out of what we do have, with the one exception of...

Andre James. I can't really understand the idea of moving a rookie with 4 NFL games in Leatherwood inside in favor of Brandon Parker, yet continuing to trott out Andre James when you have a proven veteran that has 5+ years of at least average to slightly above average behind him. You also have a very accomplished rookie on the practice squad with 3+ years of significant college starting experience. Whereas James has no history of even good play. Heck he can't even go a full game without a botched snap. Nor does he even have college starting experience at center to point to of any quality, forget about good. Leatherwood struggling at RT is much more forgivable in my eyes 4 games in and should have been expected and game planned to account for it from the start (for any rookie OT IMO). Andre James being god awful 4 games in is much less forgivable BECAUSE THEY TRADED AN ALL PRO CALIBER CENTER AND GAVE HIM A CONTRACT EXTENSION. They get zero pass for Andre James. And the staff gets docked IMO every single game they continue to start James over Martin or even Morrissey and he plays terribly and can't even reliably get a shot gun snap on target. Sure maybe the light goes on and he comes out this week and the rest of the season and plays great football. I sincerely doubt it. But every game that doesn't happen it makes the entire situation regarding center and the OL much worse. It would be hard for me to accept any rationale or excuse for James. Whereas I would have expected going in for Leatherwood to not play great, even if he wasn't a reach. 

So in a vacuum I can understand moving Leatherwood inside, I don't think it is an indictment on his long term outlook or potential at RT. I wonder write him off for it, and I can understand the thinking to try and get the most out of him and the best OL possible with what we have this season with the team sitting at 3-1 despite a ton of sacks and zero running lanes. That is all fine IMO. I can't understand why that move was made FIRST or at this point the only move made as opposed to putting Martin as a seasoned, decent, reliable center in over James. I honestly think if we had to make only one move, move Leatherwood inside and put Parker at RT or replace James with Martin that replacing James would be most beneficial. Beyond just the on field ability, I don't see how anyone on the OL or team can have ANY belief in James ability to do his job. Replacing him with a steady vet in Martin would improve the OL on field play IMO. But also likely improve the teams confidence and chemistry. And it's not like we are forced to only pick one. 

It seems obvious to me James is the biggest problem on the OL. If you believe moving Leatherwood inside will help him and improve the OL, great by me, but if you really want to get the most out of him and the OL make the switch, admit defeat on the train wreck that is the center position and put a proven average caliber reliable center in there next to him. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Mr Raider

[BayRaider]

Probably will be a close game because of the Bears D but this should be a win. If this is not a win it would be HIGHLY concerning. It’s one of the easiest games on the schedule, even though the Bears are no cakewalk.