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OBJ Thread


LETSGOBROWNIES

Should we move on?  

29 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we consciously uncouple from OBJ?

    • Yes, he’s a bum who can eat my shorts.
    • Yes, he may be great, but it isn’t working out here.
    • No, 3 years is hardly enough time to figure this out. Patience is a virtue.
      0
    • Absolutely not, my Baker -> OBJ -> Super Bowl tattoo will pay off shortly.


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4 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

At this point I’m pissed off that he is still on the team. What we have seen so far this season is the last straw, I was on the fence going into the year. At this point he is just hurting us.

Yeah I just don’t get it. This is the first time Baker played great…WITH OBJ on the field. And still OBJ didn’t have a good game. 
 

But for real it’s such a shame. I legitimately like him. It looks like he’s finally humbled himself and bought in to what we’re trying to do here. But for some odd reason it just isn’t working. I’m quite honestly perplexed by it. 

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8 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

Yeah I just don’t get it. This is the first time Baker played great…WITH OBJ on the field. And still OBJ didn’t have a good game. 
 

Baker had a good game because he played his game.  Spread the ball around, throw to the open guy.

Unlike the last 2 games where he averaged 8 targets, yesterday he had 3.

8 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

But for real it’s such a shame. I legitimately like him. It looks like he’s finally humbled himself and bought in to what we’re trying to do here. But for some odd reason it just isn’t working. I’m quite honestly perplexed by it. 

Yep.

 

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8 hours ago, NateDawg said:

Why does anybody think they would get a day one or day two pick for Odell Beckham? He is almost 29 years old and hasn’t been a productive receiver in several years. He also has a large contract. You would be fortunate just to have another team take his contract for a pick swap or late rounder.

I could see a day 2 picks.  Not expecting it, but could see it.

Coaches and GM’s all think they can fix anyone. If a WR needy team thinks they can get a guy who may still be Pro Bowl caliber (in their minds) in the right situation, I could see it.

Personally I’d like to swap him for Brandon Aiyuk or something like that. Maybe two misfits switching places places helps everyone.

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Trade him for a linebacker or some EDGE help...maybe even a swing interior lineman. At this point, he isn't helping this offense at all, and he struggles to separate consistently outside. Landry and DPJ are better, not to mention Higgins, and Njoku and Hooper have a LOT of value as well.

I've been pounding the table for a tall, big bodied Red Zone receiver for a while now, which really fits what we do offensively. Not having a viable vertical threat on the outside is absolutely the only real thing holding us back as an offense.

What REALLY concerns me over the next two games is how decimated we are (Clowney, Myles is banged up, JOK has a throat contusion, both OT's are hurt, Baker is dinged up, Ward and Greedy are hurt...) going against the 5-0 Cardinals and then a short week Thursday night against Denver.

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6 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Trade him for a linebacker or some EDGE help...maybe even a swing interior lineman. At this point, he isn't helping this offense at all, and he struggles to separate consistently outside. Landry and DPJ are better, not to mention Higgins, and Njoku and Hooper have a LOT of value as well.

I've been pounding the table for a tall, big bodied Red Zone receiver for a while now, which really fits what we do offensively. Not having a viable vertical threat on the outside is absolutely the only real thing holding us back as an offense.

What REALLY concerns me over the next two games is how decimated we are (Clowney, Myles is banged up, JOK has a throat contusion, both OT's are hurt, Baker is dinged up, Ward and Greedy are hurt...) going against the 5-0 Cardinals and then a short week Thursday night against Denver.

Yup. Next couple of weeks could get ugly depending on the severity of some of those injuries.

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31 minutes ago, DawgX said:

I wouldn't have hated it but talent wise we're good at CB. It's just a matter of them being healthy.

Between ward greedy and newsome I’m not sure they’ll ever be healthy at the same time. Add Gilmore to that and you’d be lucky to have 2 playing at the same time. 

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5 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

Ours are still a lot more injury prone than others. 

Sure seem to be.

I factored that when all the hype was flying about our DB.

Think I counted Ward, Newsome and Harrison at least as good for 36 games among them.

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Officially one of my last long posts (and really one of the last posts of any type for me) as I'm preparing to take my annual internet forum sabbatical until hopefully the Browns are in playoffs b/c Baker's balling and the team is thriving. You derps make me sick with your non-All22 foolery.

Heading back into the ole' Haberdashery to continue the good work of converting digital film wizardry into 35mm true All22 film while I earnestly await the good king Darnold or Nacua's return.

I didn't even want to look in this thread b/c of what I knew would be terrible takes. You tv angle trusting, boxscore scouting, non-understanding of correlation versus causation, non-wordsmithians are a scourge upon the Earth. Shame! Shame! Shame!

But let's talk Odell Beckham Jr's time in Cleveland ...

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A WRs primary duties are the following:

1.) Get Open (i.e., run the appropriate and quality route, on broken plays get open for the QB, etc)

2.) Catch the Ball 

3.) Block with Effort and Quality

4.) Give Quality and Consistent Effort even when one knows they aren't getting the ball

A WRs secondary duties are the following:

1.) Be a Quality Teammate and Locker Room Guy in the things one can control

2.) Be a Quality Person off-the-field when not at work

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Evaluating OBJ's Quality of Work & Why Derps Have No Idea What's Going On

1.) There's an easy way to approximate to a high degree of certainty regarding the quality of OBJ's contributions in the 4 primary duties/responsibilities he has to the organization as a football player (i.e., getting open, catching the ball, blocking quality, effort quality). Unfortunately, because hardly any of you watch the All22 your takes are easily shaped by the brief moments and snapshots or occurrences you see of routes or play outcomes that the slice of the TV shows, or the announcers interpretation of things.

2.) One can also look at the statistics/analytics and compare OBJ relative to other WRs in the league to see where OBJ compares on metrics like Drop Rate or Big Moment Drop Rate.

Any quality assessor of traditional football scouting analysis and analytics knows the following are true:

1.) The vast majority of time in Cleveland OBJ's blocking is of good to great quality
2.) The vast majority of time in Cleveland OBJ's routes are of good quality and is getting open.
3.) OBJ's drop rate is better than other top WRs in the league each year he's been in Cleveland (See the next section for specifics on Drops)
4.) The vast majority of time in Cleveland OBJ's effort has been of great quality

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Let's talk Drops You Non-All22 Watching, Analytically Know-Nothing Charlatans:

**Drop Rate (i.e., Drops Per Target) is more meaningful than Total Drops as it controls for varying opportunities**

2019 - Notable WRs Who Dropped the Ball at a Higher Rate compared to Odell Beckham Jr. (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/receiving_advanced.htm)

1.) DK Metcalf (Drop Rate 7% in 15 Games; 7 Drops Total)

2.) Stefon Diggs (Drop Rate 6.4% in 15 Games; 6 Drops Total)

3.) Mike Evans (Drop Rate 5.9% in 13 Games; 7 Drops Total)

4.) Davante Adams (Drop Rate 5.5% in 12 Games; 7 Drops Total)

5.) Brandin Cooks (Drop Rate 5.6% in 14 Games; 6 Drops Total)

6.) Odell Beckham Jr. (Drop Rate 5.3% in 15 Games; 7 Drops Total) 

2020 - Notable WRs Who Dropped the Ball at a Higher Rate compared to Odell Beckham Jr. (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/receiving_advanced.htm

In 2020, Odell had a drop rate of 2.3 in 7 games; Total Drops 1). If he kept that pace, it would've been exceptional, BUT let's assume he would've matched his drop rate of the season prior at 5.3%; let's then look at the notable WRs in 2020 who exceeded that drop rate.

**Drop Rate (i.e., Drops Per Target) is more meaningful than Total Drops as it controls for varying opportunities**

1.) Adam Thielen (Drop Rate 6.5% in 15 Games; 7 Drops Total) 

2.) DK Metcalf (Drop Rate 6.2% in 16 Games; 8 Drops Total) 

3.) Tyler Lockett (Drop Rate 6.1% in 16 Games; 8 Drops Total) 

4.) Jarvis Landry (Drop Rate 5.9% in 15 Games; 6 Drops Total) 

5.) DJ Moore (Drop Rate 5.9% in 15 Games; 7 Drops Total) 

6.) Devante Parker (Drop Rate 5.8% in 14 Games; 6 Drops Total) 

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In terms of the being a quality teammate and locker room guy, OBJ has matured and by all accounts has been of good to great quality in that area. Showing some emotion on the sideline or going out after a play is not evidence of anything nefarious.

In terms of off-the-field stuff, besides the unproven rumor of "come get me" or whatever there's literally been nothing.

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Because no one watches the All22 no one sees that Baker misses OBJ on routine throws or when he's wide open all the time going back to the very beginning of OBJ arriving in Cleveland.

Baker and OBJ's on-field chemistry has suffered from the hip/groin surgery going into the 2020 season as well as the ACL surgery heading into 2021. They've really barely even had 1 full offseason.

The only reason why anyone talks about OBJ being the problem is b/c of the need to attribute all Baker's misses on an OBJ bad route or OBJ caused QB mind haze. OBJ has dropped balls and ran bad route no different than any of the top WRs. 

There are those that know and those that don't. Anyone watching the All22 over the years knows, Baker just misses a lot of reads and throws to OBJ and that's the main reason for their lack of connection relative to OBJ's occasional drops or occasional bad route.

The problem is that Baker is not yet the quality QB that can perform in a pressurized environment whether that be in big moments, big games, or big expectations to get big time talents the ball. He can still be ... hopefully.

Top QBs never have the "mental fog from perceived pressure to force the ball to WR X" problem. 

You put OBJ with any of the top 10 QBs, and the foolery that Browns fans entertain in terms of attributing blame to OBJ mind fog ceases to exist.

It doesn't matter that OBJ has an occasional drop no different than the top WR, keep getting him the ball. 

At this point, I hope OBJ gets to play with one of the top tier QBs. The idea that Baker can only thrive with lesser talent WRs is some of the most laughable stuff ever.

And with that, I take my leave. 

Long Live Kai Nacua.

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Edited by Empire Lies
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