TNF GDT: Bucs @ Eagles: Do Birds eat GOATs?

[Scalamania]

8 hours ago, Kiltman said:

A lot of plays are there, Jalen just plays on tape delay a lot of the time. 

I truly don’t know what to think of him yet. Like I think a good NFL starter is in there but he really needs to dial things in and progress. It’s not crazy to think he can.

 

You're clearly more optimistic than most and you could be right but I have a hard time with the bolded. What exactly makes you think he can? Up to this point he shown nothing that would lead more to believe that he's an NFL starter. He is very clearly getting outplayed by a 6th rounder and he's going to continue to lose playing time to Quez. 

 

[Kiltman]

9 minutes ago, Scalamania said:

You're clearly more optimistic than most and you could be right but I have a hard time with the bolded. What exactly makes you think he can? Up to this point he shown nothing that would lead more to believe that he's an NFL starter. He is very clearly getting outplayed by a 6th rounder and he's going to continue to lose playing time to Quez. 

 

Was actually talking about Hurts there, but that wasn’t super clear.

As for Reagor, I think he’s showing some good stuff but unfortunately rn I don’t think he’s ever going to have much success here. He needs a more imaginative offensive mind, as well as QB who can anticipate throws and place them properly all of the time. Right now he has neither. I think people would be disappointed regardless with how Jefferson has played but we’d at least have a solid WR. They should be using him in some of the ways Deebo gets used.

There have been dozens of plays left on the field this year because Hurts threw late, to the wrong spot or just not at all to Reagor. Like you can see him getting open way more than it would seem from the statline. 

A lot of those big plays he didn’t come away with were on Hurts imo, terrible placement on the ones that come to mind.

Walking away from last night Sirianni is probably the individual I’d be hardest on from the offense. Next Hurts and then the wideouts.

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

Idk the Reagor defense of "It's Hurts and the offenses fault" falls completely flat because Devonta is able to actually have success despite those issues. First round WRs shouldn't have to rely on scheme to have success. He has the athleticism  to succeed, he just isn't a good WR which is becoming more and more apparent. He doesn't win on routes enough, he drops passes he shouldn't, and he in general just doesn't do things good WRs do. I will give him the year to turn it around but right now I just think he is a complete bust.

[Matts4313]

5 hours ago, Kiltman said:

13 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

Still, all that said, please just go BPA with these 3 1st rounders. Build a team so that we can win while we have a QB on his rookie deal (whether that’s Hurts or 2023 pick)

100%, just build the team up. Go get some big time players who will consistently make their own plays. 
 

How it’s going now if we somehow end up with all 3 in the top 12, take two and trade one to the Steelers or someone desperately in need of a QB. Turn one pick into three.

The downside of this plan is if you land 3 good enough players, you will never draft high enough to get a blue chip QB. 

Youll have to luck out like we have.

[TheRealMcCoy]

I didn't see this after the game, but this is great lol.

Those are two massive humans showing each other respect.

[TheRealMcCoy]

16 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

The downside of this plan is if you land 3 good enough players, you will never draft high enough to get a blue chip QB. 

Youll have to luck out like we have.

Glad to see you realize going from Romo (undrafted) to Prescott (4th round) is a brilliant stroke of luck.

[Kiltman]

2 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

Idk the Reagor defense of "It's Hurts and the offenses fault" falls completely flat because Devonta is able to actually have success despite those issues. First round WRs shouldn't have to rely on scheme to have success. He has the athleticism  to succeed, he just isn't a good WR which is becoming more and more apparent. He doesn't win on routes enough, he drops passes he shouldn't, and he in general just doesn't do things good WRs do. I will give him the year to turn it around but right now I just think he is a complete bust.

Perhaps, however I think anyone who watches can see DeVonta also being held back by some of the same things. There have been at least 100+ yards and a touchdown or two he’d have just by Hurts placing the ball like a competent starter should. I’m not talking like top 10 starter level placement, just like a solid starter level.

The difference is DeVonta independently is better and also his success is technical at the line stuff that Hurts will throw to that more. For Reagor to shine he needs to be able to similarly be in the ways that suit him. He can’t do that if Sirianni doesn’t use him like that at all.

Like just give me a comeback screen, or motion pitch or something.

It’s not scheme, it’s lack of offensive identity and common sense from Nick and the staff. I don’t think Reagor is this handcuffed superstar or anything…but there has been enough in the margins of the stat sheet that tell me he could be a solid player who can make + plays. I just don’t think it’s going to happen here.

As far as it goes rn I’m very out on Sirianni. Would be fine upgrading in the offseason. He can’t answer simple questions about what he’s trying to build and doesn’t seem like he has much of a plan.

[Kiltman]

18 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

The downside of this plan is if you land 3 good enough players, you will never draft high enough to get a blue chip QB. 

Youll have to luck out like we have.

QBs are a crap shoot anyway. Nobody knows what the hell they are talking about when scouting them. It’s such a multifaceted thing. Coach has to be good, scheme has to be good, they need some talent around them, and on top of that they need the talent and mental makeup to make it work.

Like as lauded as this past draft was all 5 of them could very legitimately have nothing careers. And you look back through the years you see how just not reaching on a QB could really help you if you make a good pick elsewhere.

Almost rather just get blue chippers and draft a guy like Ridder (if he doesn’t rise back up) in the 2nd. Feel like you have an equal shot at them being any good.

[Broadway Joe]

9 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

Perhaps, however I think anyone who watches can see DeVonta also being held back by some of the same things. There have been at least 100+ yards and a touchdown or two he’d have just by Hurts placing the ball like a competent starter should. I’m not talking like top 10 starter level placement, just like a solid starter level.

The difference is DeVonta independently is better and also his success is technical at the line stuff that Hurts will throw to that more. For Reagor to shine he needs to be able to similarly be in the ways that suit him. He can’t do that if Sirianni doesn’t use him like that at all.

Like just give me a comeback screen, or motion pitch or something.

It’s not scheme, it’s lack of offensive identity and common sense from Nick and the staff. I don’t think Reagor is this handcuffed superstar or anything…but there has been enough in the margins of the stat sheet that tell me he could be a solid player who can make + plays. I just don’t think it’s going to happen here.

As far as it goes rn I’m very out on Sirianni. Would be fine upgrading in the offseason. He can’t answer simple questions about what he’s trying to build and doesn’t seem like he has much of a plan.

I feel the same way, but there's no reason to fire him as long as Howie is the GM. No promising HC candidate will want to come and work with him as it has been reported and anyone who does, doesn't last.

[Scalamania]

16 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

As far as it goes rn I’m very out on Sirianni. Would be fine upgrading in the offseason. He can’t answer simple questions about what he’s trying to build and doesn’t seem like he has much of a plan.

Fire him and the whole staff, fire Howie and start over. This staff and Howie are going to set this franchise back years if they stick around. 

[Matts4313]

27 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

Glad to see you realize going from Romo (undrafted) to Prescott (4th round) is a brilliant stroke of luck.

Of course. Obviously it wasnt completely luck as both Romo and Dak were close to our OC's coming out of college (Payton/Linehan); but in the grand scheme of things - landing 2 all pro caliber QBs for the cost of a single 4th round compensatory pick is like striking gold.

20 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

QBs are a crap shoot anyway.

Strong, strong, strong disagree. The majority of HOF QBs/superbowl winning QBs have all been drafted in the first 5 picks. If you include the first 35 picks of the draft the number gets insane. 

Quote

Nobody knows what the hell they are talking about when scouting them. It’s such a multifaceted thing. Coach has to be good, scheme has to be good, they need some talent around them, and on top of that they need the talent and mental makeup to make it work.

Like as lauded as this past draft was all 5 of them could very legitimately have nothing careers. And you look back through the years you see how just not reaching on a QB could really help you if you make a good pick elsewhere.

Almost rather just get blue chippers and draft a guy like Ridder (if he doesn’t rise back up) in the 2nd. Feel like you have an equal shot at them being any good.

Most of this can be said about all players/positions. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Matts4313

[Scalamania]

41 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Strong, strong, strong disagree. The majority of HOF QBs/superbowl winning QBs have all been drafted in the first 5 picks. If you include the first 35 picks of the draft the number gets insane. 

I understand that Tom Brady has a lot to do with this but over the last 20 years only two quarterbacks meet the criteria you posted and they're brothers. 

 

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

1 hour ago, Kiltman said:

Perhaps, however I think anyone who watches can see DeVonta also being held back by some of the same things. There have been at least 100+ yards and a touchdown or two he’d have just by Hurts placing the ball like a competent starter should. I’m not talking like top 10 starter level placement, just like a solid starter level.

The difference is DeVonta independently is better and also his success is technical at the line stuff that Hurts will throw to that more. For Reagor to shine he needs to be able to similarly be in the ways that suit him. He can’t do that if Sirianni doesn’t use him like that at all.

Like just give me a comeback screen, or motion pitch or something.

It’s not scheme, it’s lack of offensive identity and common sense from Nick and the staff. I don’t think Reagor is this handcuffed superstar or anything…but there has been enough in the margins of the stat sheet that tell me he could be a solid player who can make + plays. I just don’t think it’s going to happen here.

As far as it goes rn I’m very out on Sirianni. Would be fine upgrading in the offseason. He can’t answer simple questions about what he’s trying to build and doesn’t seem like he has much of a plan.

I agree Reagor isn't being utilized properly. Sirianni needs to get the ball in his hands in space more and he can be effective as a play maker for sure. But the dude is a round 1 WR. He sucked last year, he sucks this year. He doesn't get open, his speed isn't as advertised, he drops passes regularly... he is at best criminally over drafted and at worst just a bad player.

Also odd you think Hurts could be a good starter at this point, but Sirianni is a brand new HC who has never called plays 5 games into his career you are ready to move on from. Not saying I necessarily disagree but I'd say Hurts has done about the same amount as Sirianni to instill confidence which is... not much.

[Jeezla]

I don't think Nick was the problem yesterday. Hurts couldn't execute and the defense got picked apart. And that Jonny Gannon "Bend, but also Break" Defense once again put our team immediately in a 0-7 hole. It would be nice if we weren't playing catchup every time our offense doesn't score on their 1st possession. Also, we need to stop electing to kick the ball when we win coin flips. That's basically an automatic down 7 to start the game.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Jeezla

[oland11]

3 hours ago, Kiltman said:

Perhaps, however I think anyone who watches can see DeVonta also being held back by some of the same things. There have been at least 100+ yards and a touchdown or two he’d have just by Hurts placing the ball like a competent starter should. I’m not talking like top 10 starter level placement, just like a solid starter level.

The difference is DeVonta independently is better and also his success is technical at the line stuff that Hurts will throw to that more. For Reagor to shine he needs to be able to similarly be in the ways that suit him. He can’t do that if Sirianni doesn’t use him like that at all.

Like just give me a comeback screen, or motion pitch or something.

It’s not scheme, it’s lack of offensive identity and common sense from Nick and the staff. I don’t think Reagor is this handcuffed superstar or anything…but there has been enough in the margins of the stat sheet that tell me he could be a solid player who can make + plays. I just don’t think it’s going to happen here.

As far as it goes rn I’m very out on Sirianni. Would be fine upgrading in the offseason. He can’t answer simple questions about what he’s trying to build and doesn’t seem like he has much of a plan.

Didn't they run some kind of jet sweep to Reagor either against the Chiefs or Panthers and it went for a solid first down? I saw that and said why can't we do stuff like that more often? Like yea these guys have opportunities to show they belong on this team but at the same time we can very easily give them more opportunities that don't rely on massive deep throws.