Rebuild or No Rebuild?

[Trojan]

100% rebuild.

Look at our 2022 team.
Carr ~20 mil no guarantees -- is worth either an extension or significant trade compensation
Kolton ~17mil -- just resigned is the cornerstone
Clelin Ferrell ~10mil, about half guarantee -- if he's worth something in trade I feel like you take it.
Waller ~7mil -- he's getting a new deal or asking for a trade this offseason that's why he hired a new agent. It's either extension or significant trade compensation.
Cory Littleton ~16mil -- he's been restructured to hell but I think it's a cut bait and pay situation.
Yannick ~15mil -- this is a locked in building piece.
Good ~4mil -- no guarantees and off injury is a move on piece
Ruggs ~5mil -- this is a locked in building piece.
Josh Jacobs ~4mil -- this is a locked in building piece.
Jonathan Abram ~4mil -- depends on the coaching staff, if coverage will be a big part he might be a trade piece.
Damon Arnette ~4mil -- there might be a market, like Abram it's new staff's choice or maybe a mid-late pick.
Kenyan Drake ~8mil -- no thanks, but somehow has 5.5mil guaranteed. Might be a market if we pay the guarantees for a late pick
Carl Nassib ~9mil -- restructured so no guarantees on the 9mil he's gone unless he extends on a rotational money extension canceling the 9mil number out
Leatherwood ~3mil -- rookie.
Andre James ~3.5 mil -- I don't think he'd last a change from Cable.
Kwiatkoski ~8mil -- Cut.
Mullen ~2.5mil -- extension if fits new staff, trade piece if not.
Moehrig -- rookie.
Trent Sieg -- LS who cares
Maxx -- extension
Edwards -- rookie deal
Renfrow -- building block
Perryman -- at 3mil likely stays if healthy
Simpson - depth or cheap "starter"
Moreau -- building block/depth
Koonce -- depth
Deablo -- depth
Amik -- if he has value trade potential, many were high on him might be a late round value in trade?
Gillespie -- depth
Hobbs -- rookie, locked in building piece
_____

How exactly do you proceed without a rebuild? That's 12 bolded players, 14 if you include Carr and Waller. You still need like 10-20 more players that are roughly starter quality.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Trojan

[MrOaktown_56]

I like the roster. It can absolutely get better, but doesn’t need to be blown up.

[JarrodR86]

For me it’s more of a retool.. If I’m Mayock and on the hot seat too, he should probably understand his window is now, albeit I’m sure Mark would have to sign off on any major move.. I’m doing what I can to trade for a few proven pieces on the O-Line and righting the ship 100%..

A couple targets I would go after would be Andrew Norwell (Jax OG) and for maybe Kenyan Drake (Richard back now) and a 3rd/4th round pick and Frank Ragnow (DET C) for Andre James/Nick Martin and a 2nd.. It’s going to be a long season if we don’t make legit improvements along the line and Norwell at a hair under 30 is still good enough to build with and can be extended to fit in the cap. Ragnow is a lot less expensive and is only 25 and from what I saw has a 86 PFF grade fwiw..

Both acquired from teams are last place and likely to stay there so maybe they take the picks as they rebuild. No guarantee either team would trade them, but to me it’s worth the shot. OLine of Miller, Norwell, Ragnow, Simpson/Incognito and Parker/Leatherwood would be much improved. 

 

 

[JarrodR86]

And also, even with trading a few picks, if this year goes down the $hitt£r and we do go rebuild in the off-season, we’d be able to get them back and more if we do move on from Carr, etc (not advocating, but also not against it if it ends up being a sub .500 season.. He needs a better line to really succeed, we all know that, which is why I wouldn’t be upset about trading a few early round picks for proven players who can help now and for years to come. So long story short, if I’m Mayock, I’m worried about fielding the best team I can and not about Cable’s projects. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by JarrodR86

[big_palooka]

There are some nice pieces on this roster, but they are so far away from competing with KC, LA and even Denver on talent. 

Rebuild the Oline. Acquire 1 highlight player on defense to bring that unit together. 

Rebuild the offensive staff. And personally, I move on from Carr. He's just not a winning QB. He's the 3rd best QB in the division. They are going nowhere with him. 

Problem, the 2022 QB class lacks anything exciting. 

Coaches... there are some potentially good options out there. I could however see Davis going after a Jim Harbaugh type guy. Former Raider ties, big name, former experience. 

 

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Rebuild the Oline. Acquire 1 highlight player on defense to bring that unit together. 

Rebuild the offensive staff. And personally, I move on from Carr. He's just not a winning QB. He's the 3rd best QB in the division. They are going nowhere with him. 

Problem, the 2022 QB class lacks anything exciting. 

Coaches... there are some potentially good options out there. I could however see Davis going after a Jim Harbaugh type guy. Former Raider ties, big name, former experience. 

Connor Williams and Ryan Ramczyk could both hit the free agent market this off-season as high level offensive linemen. 

Agreed that we need to rebuild the offensive staff although I'd just let Carr finish his contract here. He only has 1 year remaining on his deal at a very team friendly price. The 2022 QB class looks meh but I like Willis and think having him sit behind Carr for a year would be ideal. 

David Shaw really just makes a ton of sense, IMO. POC head coach that's no nonsense and would help to rebuild our culture. Plus he too has connections with Mark and the Raiders organization and I think it'd be easier to pouch him from Stanford then to convince Harbaugh to leave Michigan. 

[big_palooka]

22 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Connor Williams and Ryan Ramczyk could both hit the free agent market this off-season as high level offensive linemen. 

Agreed that we need to rebuild the offensive staff although I'd just let Carr finish his contract here. He only has 1 year remaining on his deal at a very team friendly price. The 2022 QB class looks meh but I like Willis and think having him sit behind Carr for a year would be ideal. 

David Shaw really just makes a ton of sense, IMO. POC head coach that's no nonsense and would help to rebuild our culture. Plus he too has connections with Mark and the Raiders organization and I think it'd be easier to pouch him from Stanford then to convince Harbaugh to leave Michigan. 

I love Shaw. But I think Harbaugh's clock is about to expire in Michigan. 

Carr is going to be interesting. No reason to extend him, but his agent will likely push for it. I also think Carr would hate having an understudy behind him. 

Harbaugh/Shaw. Mariota stop gap. Trade Carr for draft picks. Actually hit on said draft picks with a decent Gm making them. Profit?

[NYRaider]

6 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I love Shaw. But I think Harbaugh's clock is about to expire in Michigan. 

Carr is going to be interesting. No reason to extend him, but his agent will likely push for it. I also think Carr would hate having an understudy behind him. 

Harbaugh/Shaw. Mariota stop gap. Trade Carr for draft picks. Actually hit on said draft picks with a decent Gm making them. Profit?

Michigan is currently 6-0 and ranked 8th in the country with a legitimate chance to make the CFB Playoffs this year. 

If his agent is set on an extension then we should trade him. Maybe Shaw/Harbaugh can convince Luck to come out of retirement, lol. 

[big_palooka]

41 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Michigan is currently 6-0 and ranked 8th in the country with a legitimate chance to make the CFB Playoffs this year. 

If his agent is set on an extension then we should trade him. Maybe Shaw/Harbaugh can convince Luck to come out of retirement, lol. 

He loses to Ohio St. it's over lol. 

And that's hilarious, I actually had the same thought about Luck. In the end, Davis will probably succumb to Mayock because he doesn't seem very bright about hiring. And Mayock will make decisions on the coaching staff.

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

He loses to Ohio St. it's over lol. 

And that's hilarious, I actually had the same thought about Luck. In the end, Davis will probably succumb to Mayock because he doesn't seem very bright about hiring. And Mayock will make decisions on the coaching staff.

They have a pretty good shot of entering that game 11-0. 

David Shaw and Andrew Luck out of retirement would be absolute madness. 

[SimonGruber]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Connor Williams and Ryan Ramczyk could both hit the free agent market this off-season as high level offensive linemen. 

Agreed that we need to rebuild the offensive staff although I'd just let Carr finish his contract here. He only has 1 year remaining on his deal at a very team friendly price. The 2022 QB class looks meh but I like Willis and think having him sit behind Carr for a year would be ideal. 

David Shaw really just makes a ton of sense, IMO. POC head coach that's no nonsense and would help to rebuild our culture. Plus he too has connections with Mark and the Raiders organization and I think it'd be easier to pouch him from Stanford then to convince Harbaugh to leave Michigan. 

 Ryan Ramczyk could finally in theory sure up that pesky RT after how many tries at finding somebody ?

[Nightmare]

There’s two ways it could go:

- full rebuild, full clearout including Mayock and Carr, hire a young, innovative HC/GM combo and take a couple of years of struggle to hope they can build something with potential

- retool, hire a vet HC like Harbaugh and make a play for a big name QB like Rodgers, Wilson, Watson or even Luck (I didn’t think of him before but interesting shout above from NY & BP)

With the way Mark Davis operates, I feel like the second is more likely. And probably preferable to me as I don’t think this is a bottom feeding or cap mess roster; which are usually the kind of situations you need to blow up. We’re a middle of the pack team with a couple of obvious holes, but I really don’t think a full detonation is required.

[big_palooka]

I just want to see this team win in my lifetime. Which sucks, because I certainly see Davis doing a terrible job of navigating this all. He's not cut out for this in my opinion. 

Since becoming owner he immediately hired Reggie McKenzie without interviewing anyone else. Burned through one HC (Allen). Went of script without much input from his GM and hired Del Rio. Made him fire himself to hire his fan boy crush to a hilarious 10 year 100 mil. contract. Let Gruden hire former HC (Cable) with a checkered past that doesn't align with Raiders core values. Watched Gruden trade away a franchise player. Agreed to let him hire a talking head as GM and has watched them fail miserably at constructing the roster. Long time Raider Mark Badain resigns out seemingly out of nowhere after helping move the franchise to Vegas. Had Chris Angel escape a straight jacket upside down during pre-game.

Does anything this man do inspire confidence?

[SimonGruber]

12 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I just want to see this team win in my lifetime. Which sucks, because I certainly see Davis doing a terrible job of navigating this all. He's not cut out for this in my opinion. 

Since becoming owner he immediately hired Reggie McKenzie without interviewing anyone else. Burned through one HC (Allen). Went of script without much input from his GM and hired Del Rio. Made him fire himself to hire his fan boy crush to a hilarious 10 year 100 mil. contract. Let Gruden hire former HC (Cable) with a checkered past that doesn't align with Raiders core values. Watched Gruden trade away a franchise player. Agreed to let him hire a talking head as GM and has watched them fail miserably at constructing the roster. Long time Raider Mark Badain resigns out seemingly out of nowhere after helping move the franchise to Vegas. Had Chris Angel escape a straight jacket upside down during pre-game.

Does anything this man do inspire confidence?

I’m pretty sure he consulted with Football people before hiring Reggie McKenzie. The whole charade of him fanboying for Gruden while having to satisfy the Rooney Rule is the thing I think was egregious

[RaidersAreOne]

We do have some enticing players to build around in the likes of Waller, Ruggs, Renfrow, Jacobs, Miller, Ingold, Crosby, Yannick, Mullen, Moehrig, etc. Even Carr could be a very big deal to some HC/GM candidates.