big_palooka Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 5 hours ago, Darbsk said: It seems to me that we're stuck between a rock and hard place somewhat. We don't have a huge cache of draft picks and only really Carr I would think could fetch real capital, maybe Crosby or Ruggs. We have the semblance of a decent defence starting to take shape and the weapons on offence are looking decent. I voted No to the rebuild simply from the fact that I think we need supplementary players and a coach with a clear, defined vision rather than to tear it all down yet again. Carr in my opinion is good enough to go far providing he has a decent supporting cast. Russell Wilson is I think, the best QB in the NFL but even he is struggling when he doesn't have the tools around him, no QB can simply drag a poor team to a title, so even if we trade for a guy like Rodgers or Wilson we still need to sort the OL and add a couple defensive playmakers. There's no easy one simple move here. We need multiple moves and a long term strategy. I would keep Carr in place at least in the short term and if we deem that a great talent is available in the draft we take him and sit him to learn behind Carr and until the OL gets remade - even the greatest prospects like Lawrence look poor when they're thrown in a hopeless situation. If a guy that we don't love us there then we continue to build and develop the roster until such time as there is a kid there that we can get without mortgaging the future and we have a supporting cast in place that can help him when he does get in. As much as I love Wilson I'm not sure mortgaging the future for him and throwing him into a situation similar to that which he's unhappy with right now is the best way. If we swapped Wilson for Carr right now than we'd be a better team but we're not challenging for a title, not from what I've seen and we severely limit our resources to improve. It's tempting, especially as I like Wilson so much but I think the more logical, better long term solution would be continue to build the roster, develop a philosophy we want on offence that is sustainable and when the time us right pull the trigger on a young kid with huge potential that we can ease them in knowing that he doesn't have to get thrown to the wolves and the expectations aren't immediately on him. For every Herbert there are many Rosen's, Bortles and Darnolds so it's not simply a case of picking a QB high in the draft, it has to be the right guy and at draft position that we can get to without mortgaging the future or handicapping us down the line too much. I respect this position. The "mortgaging the future" argument kind of falls on deaf ears when it comes to the Raiders. It's more would rather have a franchise QB or the mystery box!? Give me the franchise QB. Rebuild the Oline to protect him. The skill positions are there. Waller would shoot the moon. Ruggs would ascend to greater heights with a gifted deep ball passer throwing to him. Defense, is coming together. A couple pieces and you're fine. We need to stop overrating first round picks as fans. The Rams keep mortgaging their future and they win, period. Why? They leverage those overrated draft picks into actual talent like Ramsey, etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 12 hours ago, Humble_Beast said: DC is barely 30 and plays QB. he is going to be starting for the rest of this decade at the very least. we need to ink him up You have to factor in taking about another 3years for the roster to get right and him learning the playbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: I respect this position. The "mortgaging the future" argument kind of falls on deaf ears when it comes to the Raiders. It's more would rather have a franchise QB or the mystery box!? Give me the franchise QB. Rebuild the Oline to protect him. The skill positions are there. Waller would shoot the moon. Ruggs would ascend to greater heights with a gifted deep ball passer throwing to him. Defense, is coming together. A couple pieces and you're fine. We need to stop overrating first round picks as fans. The Rams keep mortgaging their future and they win, period. Why? They leverage those overrated draft picks into actual talent like Ramsey, etc. IF Wilson and Rodgers are available you go for them point blank. Unfortunately I can’t see Rodgers wanting to come here when he can go to better situations in Denver or like Chi. There’s been lots of talk about Wilson leaving for years but at this point him and the Seahawks are like that couple that always fights but stays together. I honestly can’t see them getting rid of him. Honestly I guess you hope for a guy to emerge from the college ranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 4 hours ago, big_palooka said: 2 things: 1) I literally said Carr is no part of the problem. But he's far from the solution. He's a QB who will keep you in the middle. He's inconsistent and struggles late in seasons. 2) You have got to find another word than "dumpster fire". You have worn that word out you use it so much. Get some variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBXISBXVSBXVIII Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 17 hours ago, Humble_Beast said: umm the coach was just fired in the season, and the OLINE sucks Who got fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBXISBXVSBXVIII Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 13 hours ago, Humble_Beast said: First: DC went from MVP---- - Gruden news- OL falls apart Post Gruden: Its all DC fault now. It's time to move on and start fresh. lol Like many have said, most rookie QB would flop hard with this franchise. It's not for the faint of heart The only one I’ve read that from is Frankie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 7 hours ago, big_palooka said: I respect this position. The "mortgaging the future" argument kind of falls on deaf ears when it comes to the Raiders. It's more would rather have a franchise QB or the mystery box!? Give me the franchise QB. Rebuild the Oline to protect him. The skill positions are there. Waller would shoot the moon. Ruggs would ascend to greater heights with a gifted deep ball passer throwing to him. Defense, is coming together. A couple pieces and you're fine. We need to stop overrating first round picks as fans. The Rams keep mortgaging their future and they win, period. Why? They leverage those overrated draft picks into actual talent like Ramsey, etc. I actually think we're in a position now to trade picks for established players. We have some cap space and need a few stars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101Raider Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) I’m actually optimistic regarding our roster construction moving forward and would be disappointed on tearing it down now. on the offense we have arguably every starting skill position set: QB, RB core, multiple TEs, 3WRs. on the line we have a LT (Miller) potentially 2 Guards (Simpson, Good/Leatherwood) and maybe a RT (Good/Leatherwood) So… on offense I’ll say we need a Center, RT (for simplicity’s sake) and depth. on defense, most of our guys are average players at almost every position that we can upgrade as opportunities arise. we have our ends, safeties, a fairly young group of CBs, along with a fairly average LB group and rotational DTs. So must haves to me are: DT, C and maybe RT depending on Good/Leatherwood moving forward. those aren’t positions that require a huge draft investment, and we do have the cash. I feel like we have most of the core team in place and this is the time to start selectively targeting premium players at ANY defensive position. I’d be fine with looking to trade our picks for proven studs ala Rams or what Indy did with Buckner. We have plenty of lunchpail players at this point, time to start swinging for the fences. Edited October 16, 2021 by 101Raider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said: The only one I’ve read that from is Frankie. Our head coach is in flux, GM potentially on the hot seat, a terrible Oline, unproven cast of WR's, a 1st round bust RB that lacks explosiveness, his backup never sees the field and he's the highest paid backup RB in the nfl, interior Dline is not good, LB's are all bums, nothing proven at CB outside of Hayward who is 32 (Arnette is a total bum), nothing proven at safety (Abram 1st round bust).... and you think this is an environment set up for success with a rookie QB or that a proven QB like Rogers would ever step 100 feet within of this disaster of a franchise? You can't be serious... Edited October 17, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 3 hours ago, 101Raider said: I’m actually optimistic regarding our roster construction moving forward and would be disappointed on tearing it down now. on the offense we have arguably every starting skill position set: QB, RB core, multiple TEs, 3WRs. on the line we have a LT (Miller) potentially 2 Guards (Simpson, Good/Leatherwood) and maybe a RT (Good/Leatherwood) So… on offense I’ll say we need a Center, RT (for simplicity’s sake) and depth. on defense, most of our guys are average players at almost every position that we can upgrade as opportunities arise. we have our ends, safeties, a fairly young group of CBs, along with a fairly average LB group and rotational DTs. So must haves to me are: DT, C and maybe RT depending on Good/Leatherwood moving forward. those aren’t positions that require a huge draft investment, and we do have the cash. I feel like we have most of the core team in place and this is the time to start selectively targeting premium players at ANY defensive position. I’d be fine with looking to trade our picks for proven studs ala Rams or what Indy did with Buckner. We have plenty of lunchpail players at this point, time to start swinging for the fences. Lol. This is a very optimistic view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBXISBXVSBXVIII Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 13 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Our head coach is in flux, GM potentially on the hot seat, a terrible Oline, unproven cast of WR's, a 1st round bust RB that lacks explosiveness, his backup never sees the field and he's the highest paid backup RB in the nfl, interior Dline is not good, LB's are all bums, nothing proven at CB outside of Hayward who is 32 (Arnette is a total bum), nothing proven at safety (Abram 1st round bust).... and you think this is an environment set up for success with a rookie QB or that a proven QB like Rogers would ever step 100 feet within of this disaster of a franchise? You can't be serious... Dude. Don’t get your panties in a bunch. I was responding to EA’s “like many have said”. You’re the only one here that I’ve read that from. Damn. Touchy Touchy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 19 hours ago, 101Raider said: I’m actually optimistic regarding our roster construction moving forward and would be disappointed on tearing it down now. on the offense we have arguably every starting skill position set: QB, RB core, multiple TEs, 3WRs. on the line we have a LT (Miller) potentially 2 Guards (Simpson, Good/Leatherwood) and maybe a RT (Good/Leatherwood) So… on offense I’ll say we need a Center, RT (for simplicity’s sake) and depth. on defense, most of our guys are average players at almost every position that we can upgrade as opportunities arise. we have our ends, safeties, a fairly young group of CBs, along with a fairly average LB group and rotational DTs. So must haves to me are: DT, C and maybe RT depending on Good/Leatherwood moving forward. those aren’t positions that require a huge draft investment, and we do have the cash. I feel like we have most of the core team in place and this is the time to start selectively targeting premium players at ANY defensive position. I’d be fine with looking to trade our picks for proven studs ala Rams or what Indy did with Buckner. We have plenty of lunchpail players at this point, time to start swinging for the fences. I agree with most of this, I would say adding another guard is very important. Simpson has sucked and I have no faith in him as the guy after Richie. Richie is done after this year, just too old. I also think DT is a need, DL needs to be a strength not just okay. Our Des are a strength, I would have flipped Ferrell for something at the deadline to give Koonce a shot. Perryman has been good and likely be back next year, and we are locked in with Littleton. If a young stud is there you draft him but I like the LBs. I expect Moehrig to get better with time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 10/16/2021 at 1:39 PM, big_palooka said: I respect this position. The "mortgaging the future" argument kind of falls on deaf ears when it comes to the Raiders. It's more would rather have a franchise QB or the mystery box!? Give me the franchise QB. Rebuild the Oline to protect him. The skill positions are there. Waller would shoot the moon. Ruggs would ascend to greater heights with a gifted deep ball passer throwing to him. Defense, is coming together. A couple pieces and you're fine. We need to stop overrating first round picks as fans. The Rams keep mortgaging their future and they win, period. Why? They leverage those overrated draft picks into actual talent like Ramsey, etc. So far Carr it is, man we need to give him everything to succeed weapons and an Oline… but for a new QB it’s let’s rebuild the the oline, and weapons are there. carr has had weapons and oline once, and was close to mvp level. We are getting close to giving him that now, but we complain every qb would succeed with weapons and oline… but then talk about drafting a young qb only to rebuild the oline and have weapons? secondly, I’d argue the rams lack of depth is ultimately what cost them in the SB and held them back since then. I’d be all for trading for one sure fire stud, but can’t do it every year. you can say all they do is win, but IMO they never have won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 You have to give Carr this year to figure out if it's worth it. If he gets to the playoffs and plays well in them, no reason to let him go. If he doesn't, then you think about making a change. But IMO only if you can get Rodgers/Wilson/Watson (assuming he's innocent). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 3 hours ago, BackinBlack said: So far Carr it is, man we need to give him everything to succeed weapons and an Oline… but for a new QB it’s let’s rebuild the the oline, and weapons are there. carr has had weapons and oline once, and was close to mvp level. We are getting close to giving him that now, but we complain every qb would succeed with weapons and oline… but then talk about drafting a young qb only to rebuild the oline and have weapons? secondly, I’d argue the rams lack of depth is ultimately what cost them in the SB and held them back since then. I’d be all for trading for one sure fire stud, but can’t do it every year. you can say all they do is win, but IMO they never have won. I wish people would stop the "close to MVP level" comments with Carr. There is no close to MVP. You either consistently bring it week in and week out, or you don't. The biggest issue with Carr is he will lay an absolute egg at times. Not just, oh he had a bad game. He will be a complete mess. Until Carr shows he can carry the team in Nov. and Dec, he's not close to anything but a Cousins, Stafford, Ryan level QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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