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For me the main thing was all that draft capital that Gruden & Mayock wasted...5 prime 1st round picks that could have set the team up for years. oh well here we go again ..wash rinse..dry another start over..ps Mayock needs to also go

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4 hours ago, lester said:

For me the main thing was all that draft capital that Gruden & Mayock wasted...5 prime 1st round picks that could have set the team up for years. oh well here we go again ..wash rinse..dry another start over..ps Mayock needs to also go

That is really sickening. I did a post in another thread that since Gruden was here we had 17 top 3 round picks and a single Pro Bowl season off one of the draft picks in Josh Jacobs. It's not even the amount of total busts, it's the lack of any All Pro type players, any real consistent Pro Bowl players. Looking ahead, you could potentially argue Miller, Ruggs and maybe Moehrig are real difference makers out of those picks........ Such a waste of a golden opportunity!

I'm on the fence with Mayock if I'm honest, I really would like to see what he could do in the draft now the handcuffs are removed.....

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not sure this needed its own thread, but yeah this has been a theme. but there will always be the fanboys who defend every pick as they're made.

"are you saying you know better than a GM"

"how can you call him a reach, based on the MEDIA? LOL"

like... the media used to always trash of al davis' teambuilding in the 2000s, and they were right then too. its true that some teams get more of a benefit of the doubt than others (everything the pats do was seen as genius), but those reputations are also earned

Edited by Turnobili
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56 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

not sure this needed its own thread, but yeah this has been a theme. but there will always be the fanboys who defend every pick as they're made.

"are you saying you know better than a GM"

"how can you call him a reach, based on the MEDIA? LOL"

like... the media used to always trash of al davis' teambuilding in the 2000s, and they were right then too. its true that some teams get more of a benefit of the doubt than others (everything the pats do was seen as genius), but those reputations are also 

Probably didn't need it's own thread..but every time I think about it it pisses me off 

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It would be pretty interesting to see what this forum would have done on consensus over the Gruden era with at least the top draft picks.........I guess we could find out from the Big Board or Me v Mayock threads, I'm sure we'd have a better record than Gruden.........

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Right, I've run the numbers guys 😁

From a brief skim over the Me v Mayock, Big Board and draft threads I think this is what the forum if we were voting or taking a consensus would have done with the picks in the first three rounds during Gruden's tenure:

2018

Derwin James SS, Isaiah Oliver CB, Lorenzo Carter DE, Orlando Brown OT and Arden Key DE (with no trade for Bryant)

2019

Devin White MLB, Montez Sweat DE, Greedy Williams CB, Dalton Risner OG or DK Metcalf WR

2020

Ceedee Lamb WR, Jaylon Johnson CB, Bryan Edwards WR, Zach Moss RB or Cameron Dantzler CB

2021

Christian Darrisaw OT, Tre'Von Moehrig FS, Spencer Brown OT or Wyatt Davis OG

Obviously not totally accurate as we'd probably not gone 2 OT's if we had a guy like Orlando Brown previously or we might not have drafted 2 WR's in '20 if we drafted one in '19 for example. I think it does show that FF Raider Nation would have had this team headed in the right direction sooner and would have been an improvement over Gruden with regards the draft at least. Hopefully this will quash the tired cliché of a professional FO can obviously do better than arm chair GM nobodies 😁

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7 hours ago, Darbsk said:

It would be pretty interesting to see what this forum would have done on consensus over the Gruden era with at least the top draft picks.........I guess we could find out from the Big Board or Me v Mayock threads, I'm sure we'd have a better record than Gruden.........

Always go OTs and D- line in the first. ( Unless you need a QB and got a top 10 pick) There is always really good value at WR, CB and LB in the second or third round.

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1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

Right, I've run the numbers guys 😁

From a brief skim over the Me v Mayock, Big Board and draft threads I think this is what the forum if we were voting or taking a consensus would have done with the picks in the first three rounds during Gruden's tenure:

2018

Derwin James SS, Isaiah Oliver CB, Lorenzo Carter DE, Orlando Brown OT and Arden Key DE (with no trade for Bryant)

2019

Devin White MLB, Montez Sweat DE, Greedy Williams CB, Dalton Risner OG or DK Metcalf WR

2020

Ceedee Lamb WR, Jaylon Johnson CB, Bryan Edwards WR, Zach Moss RB or Cameron Dantzler CB

2021

Christian Darrisaw OT, Tre'Von Moehrig FS, Spencer Brown OT or Wyatt Davis OG

Obviously not totally accurate as we'd probably not gone 2 OT's if we had a guy like Orlando Brown previously or we might not have drafted 2 WR's in '20 if we drafted one in '19 for example. I think it does show that FF Raider Nation would have had this team headed in the right direction sooner and would have been an improvement over Gruden with regards the draft at least. Hopefully this will quash the tired cliché of a professional FO can obviously do better than arm chair GM nobodies 😁

That is why I started the Me vs Mayock.  Got sick of posters saying we could not do better and every time you brought up your favorite prospect they would say it was hindsight.  We would also talk about so many prospects during the off-season that many posters could point to a single thread they could say they really wanted a good prospect but the talked about wanting 10 different prospects at different times. 

You are correct that the picks would change from year to year because the Me vs Mayock is based upon current year needs with prior years real picks.  I have been trying to come up with a different way of doing it or starting something new to go along with it.  Maybe setting up a staff and doing a board Me vs Mayock were we have coaches scouts and a GM.  Scouts give a list to the coordinators, coordinators shrink the list to give to the coach and the coach gives a smaller list to the GM.  I do not know exactly how to do it and make it work but something like that would be fun. Imagine forcing @Frankie2Gunz and @NCOUGHMAN to have to work together when the subject of drafting a QB came up.  Because of time we would probably just have to do an open thread and designate a GM coach and coordinators.

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31 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

That is why I started the Me vs Mayock.  Got sick of posters saying we could not do better and every time you brought up your favorite prospect they would say it was hindsight.  We would also talk about so many prospects during the off-season that many posters could point to a single thread they could say they really wanted a good prospect but the talked about wanting 10 different prospects at different times. 

You are correct that the picks would change from year to year because the Me vs Mayock is based upon current year needs with prior years real picks.  I have been trying to come up with a different way of doing it or starting something new to go along with it.  Maybe setting up a staff and doing a board Me vs Mayock were we have coaches scouts and a GM.  Scouts give a list to the coordinators, coordinators shrink the list to give to the coach and the coach gives a smaller list to the GM.  I do not know exactly how to do it and make it work but something like that would be fun. Imagine forcing @Frankie2Gunz and @NCOUGHMAN to have to work together when the subject of drafting a QB came up.  Because of time we would probably just have to do an open thread and designate a GM coach and coordinators.

Yeh, I think the Me v Mayock thread is a great idea. Really enjoy reading back to those threads after a couple years to see how far out I was 😁. Whilst we can't really adjust for who we'd have picked previous years it does for sure show we have an eye for talent here. We'd certainly have a few more impact players on the roster for sure. 

Haha there are a few guys here who it'd be fun to see in the war room together, but that's all part of the interest and intrigue seeing differing opinions and especially seeing the rationale behind those opinions.

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1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

Yeh, I think the Me v Mayock thread is a great idea. Really enjoy reading back to those threads after a couple years to see how far out I was 😁. Whilst we can't really adjust for who we'd have picked previous years it does for sure show we have an eye for talent here. We'd certainly have a few more impact players on the roster for sure. 

Haha there are a few guys here who it'd be fun to see in the war room together, but that's all part of the interest and intrigue seeing differing opinions and especially seeing the rationale behind those opinions.

If you come up with any good ideas on how to change any of it let me know.  I will probably keep the Me vs Mayock so everyone can have their own choices but want to add something else.  This next draft mock will finally be a real Me vs Mayock.  Lets see if he can keep up in 2022.

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13 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Right, I've run the numbers guys 😁

From a brief skim over the Me v Mayock, Big Board and draft threads I think this is what the forum if we were voting or taking a consensus would have done with the picks in the first three rounds during Gruden's tenure:

2018

Derwin James SS, Isaiah Oliver CB, Lorenzo Carter DE, Orlando Brown OT and Arden Key DE (with no trade for Bryant)

2019

Devin White MLB, Montez Sweat DE, Greedy Williams CB, Dalton Risner OG or DK Metcalf WR

2020

Ceedee Lamb WR, Jaylon Johnson CB, Bryan Edwards WR, Zach Moss RB or Cameron Dantzler CB

2021

Christian Darrisaw OT, Tre'Von Moehrig FS, Spencer Brown OT or Wyatt Davis OG

Obviously not totally accurate as we'd probably not gone 2 OT's if we had a guy like Orlando Brown previously or we might not have drafted 2 WR's in '20 if we drafted one in '19 for example. I think it does show that FF Raider Nation would have had this team headed in the right direction sooner and would have been an improvement over Gruden with regards the draft at least. Hopefully this will quash the tired cliché of a professional FO can obviously do better than arm chair GM nobodies 😁

Sheesh - we would have had one of the most talented rosters top to bottom with those picks. Instead we had Gruden and Mayock either making picks at the request of an awful DC (Cle, Arnette, and Abram) or going contrarian and outsmarting themselves (Brandon Parker over Orlando Brown, RB in round 1, etc.). 
 

Just infuriating……

Edited by jpaulthe1st
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