Dubz41 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 13 hours ago, Packerraymond said: It's execution, there's no such thing as a "bad"defensive scheme, like I've said you have a very limited menu of coverages and run gaps you can call. When we're running cover 2, why is it so easy for Jason Witten to just sit in between Ryan/Matthews and Martinez for 8 yard catch after catch? It's common sense that Dom hasn't drawn up some coverage to expose us in this regard. Why can seemingly any backfield player trickle out in a pass pattern against us and have no one within 5 yards of him? My big question still remains, do the players respond to Dom's style of coaching? I honestly will never have an answer to this, that's up for Mac's determination. The defense hasn't been good enough since the end of the Bears game. I'm not going to say it's because Dom's scheme or knowledge as a coach though, he's been doing this longer than most of us have been alive. When your scheme doesn't fit your personal? It's a bad scheme. BOLDED- Grandpa had been driving longer than any of us, but we still had to take his license away because he couldn't keep up anymore. THE GAME HAS PASSED DOM BY. We have NO PASS RUSH, even our blitzes aren't designed to get to the QB- they're designed according to 'gap' assignment. Watch the film, it's the truth. The game has passed him by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 Just now, Packerraymond said: He signed vets with elite athletic ability who due to age/injuries had fallen out of favor with their past teams. (Woodson, Peppers, Cook) I don't see Woodson as an outlier. I'm not saying you don't have a good argument, because it definitely makes sense your way, but I can't help but look at the fact that he cut Woodson. He didn't let his contract run out, he cut him. That just seems so out of character that it makes me think somebody else wanted Woodson a LOT more than Thompson did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 14 minutes ago, Dubz41 said: When your scheme doesn't fit your personal? It's a bad scheme. BOLDED- Grandpa had been driving longer than any of us, but we still had to take his license away because he couldn't keep up anymore. THE GAME HAS PASSED DOM BY. We have NO PASS RUSH, even our blitzes aren't designed to get to the QB- they're designed according to 'gap' assignment. Watch the film, it's the truth. The game has passed him by. I think our lack of pass rush is a result of Daniels and Brooks lack of health. We've had to play more Fackrell and Lowry/Dial and that's just not as good. Clay has clearly lost a step and Perry finally will have 2 hands. The game hasn't passed Dom by. He still understands offenses and how to stop them. Its is he still able to relay a clear message to his younger assistant coaches and players, and are they passionate about playing for him? If he's lost that, you have to move on. I just don't want to lose this group of assistants, so I hope Moss/Whitt get the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 28 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Wasn't there something out there to suggest that Thompson had to have his arm twisted to sign Woodson? It might have just been speculation (that I totally believe), but I'm pretty sure there was something somewhere where someone said or it was said that Thompson had to have his arm almost literally twisted to sign Woodson. Look at who Thompson signed from after our Super Bowl win to this past offseason and it's more and more believable. I don't know if TT had to have his arm twisted, but according to Andrew Brandt, who worked with both of them, it is John Schneider who was most critical to getting Woodson signed in GB "John, however, pressed the issue: Woodson was available and could help us; everything else was secondary. After a month of difficult negotiations—Woodson was ambivalent about joining the Packers even though we were offering significantly more than any other team—we finally reached an agreement. John spearheaded the effort to acquire Woodson, who went on to become Defensive Player of the Year for the Packers and was one of the truly impactful free-agent signings in NFL history. https://www.si.com/2014/01/29/super-bowl-48-seahawks-success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 Thanks, TOT. Not quite as damning as I remembered, but that's what I was thinking of/referring to. I concede the point, and I concede it easily because I still think Thompson is doing just fine and that our recurring defensive problems and inability to field a top 10 defense can be attributed to Capers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Worthy and Thornton fall into the group of "guys who coaches could have gotten more out of, and went on to be contributors or role players elsewhere" Both Worthy and Thornton will see snaps for Buffalo and Detroit. Lawrence Guy also sees snaps. Those guys fall into a group of "maybe they just needed to grow up/learn a life lesson" before they become NFL contributors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleisher Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I've said this once before, I think it time for a new DC and system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, TheOnlyThing said: I don't know if TT had to have his arm twisted, but according to Andrew Brandt, who worked with both of them, it is John Schneider who was most critical to getting Woodson signed in GB "John, however, pressed the issue: Woodson was available and could help us; everything else was secondary. After a month of difficult negotiations—Woodson was ambivalent about joining the Packers even though we were offering significantly more than any other team—we finally reached an agreement. John spearheaded the effort to acquire Woodson, who went on to become Defensive Player of the Year for the Packers and was one of the truly impactful free-agent signings in NFL history. https://www.si.com/2014/01/29/super-bowl-48-seahawks-success Evidently Woodson had NO desire to come to Green Bay. Schneider might have been the main negotiator but I have to believe he did so with Thompson's blessing. In the end the only reason Charles signed with us is because nobody besides Tampa - I think the Bucs wanted him to play safety - wanted him and thought he was washed up. Of course once he got here and accepted his "fate" he ended up loving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Dubz41 said: When your scheme doesn't fit your personal? It's a bad scheme. BOLDED- Grandpa had been driving longer than any of us, but we still had to take his license away because he couldn't keep up anymore. THE GAME HAS PASSED DOM BY. We have NO PASS RUSH, even our blitzes aren't designed to get to the QB- they're designed according to 'gap' assignment. Watch the film, it's the truth. The game has passed him by. Except the "Milwaukee blitz" as Ben Fennell calls it, where we send a safety from Iron Mountain on a blitz. We ran it with Brice last week. It's designed to get to the QB, just not in the same quarter as when the play started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 The realistic answer to our struggles on defense is that at any point it has been some combination of either talent, scheme, execution, injury, luck, and the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 20 hours ago, Packerraymond said: I think our lack of pass rush is a result of Daniels and Brooks lack of health. We've had to play more Fackrell and Lowry/Dial and that's just not as good. Clay has clearly lost a step and Perry finally will have 2 hands. The game hasn't passed Dom by. He still understands offenses and how to stop them. Its is he still able to relay a clear message to his younger assistant coaches and players, and are they passionate about playing for him? If he's lost that, you have to move on. I just don't want to lose this group of assistants, so I hope Moss/Whitt get the job. The team plays without any fire. We don't hit. We don't pressure the QB. We are confused and leaderless on the field. Are you really going to buy the line that they were missing Burnett too much? Come on, he's not even ProBowl worthy and he's the glue that holds us together?!?!? Excuses. If you want to keep the staff- fine, promote from within. Anyone who can inspire a heartbeat will be better than watching the complacency that's going on now. I would suggest Trgovic, he's done it before with relative success. BUT, we are overdue for a change, at the very least on defense. Dom's history is repeating itself, early success followed by dismal performance. If you want to improve move on from this car wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaRisMa Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I have been pretty supportive of Capers, but when you see players in Hayward and Hyde leave and become very successful, it’s worrisome. Counterpoint: Contract Negotiation theory for both those two... Hayward got paid well, and we knew his injury history well enough to know the risk. He certainly wasn’t playing well enough at the time to make that a good bet. Like the Dolphins just did with Ajayi, we knew the injury history and thought moving on would be better long term. What we didn’t know was that Sam Shields would lose his career. Micah Hyde said we didn’t even make him an offer. My bet is, his agent said he wanted to play Safety, so we didn’t waste another moment of our time looking into it because the value for ANY competitive deal for him would have been terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I don't get the Hyde and Hayward thing, they were both good players here too. Hayward was a stud of a slot CB who couldn't stay on the field. Hyde was a utility guy that was really nice to have in the fold. We couldn't afford either. Give Hayward credit, he played outside CB here and wasn't good, but he's developed his game to the point where he does it well now. Hyde just simply is a pure zone player. With Burnett and HHCD there was never room for him to see the role he was best for. There's room now with Burnett being the NITRO guy, but the staff must've knew they were going to look hard at that Williams/Melinfonwu/Jones/Evans group of big, athletic 2nd round safeties. The shift away from Hyde and to Jones is the switch everyone wanted last year. Away from the pedestrian athlete with instincts to the elite level athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 22 hours ago, Dubz41 said: When your scheme doesn't fit your personal? It's a bad scheme. BOLDED- Grandpa had been driving longer than any of us, but we still had to take his license away because he couldn't keep up anymore. THE GAME HAS PASSED DOM BY. We have NO PASS RUSH, even our blitzes aren't designed to get to the QB- they're designed according to 'gap' assignment. Watch the film, it's the truth. The game has passed him by. Yeah it's on someone to adjust. Change what you're doing or get the right personnel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 20 hours ago, skibrett15 said: Worthy and Thornton fall into the group of "guys who coaches could have gotten more out of, and went on to be contributors or role players elsewhere" Both Worthy and Thornton will see snaps for Buffalo and Detroit. Lawrence Guy also sees snaps. Those guys fall into a group of "maybe they just needed to grow up/learn a life lesson" before they become NFL contributors. Holy crap .. I had no idea Jerel Worthy was still in the league .. thought he was three years out already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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