Denver Broncos (the new old browns) @ Cleveland Browns - Thursday, 10/21 - 6:20 Mountain

[Broncofan]

17 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

 

EDIT - and for the record you arrogant prick, I was not calling for Patons removal. Read what I actually wrote.

THis is the section you said.  Your own words.

26 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

 

I won’t shed a tear if Paton is thrown off the boat along with the rest of the FO, the whole coaching staff and 75% of the roster. 

Your own words.  You're talking about Paton being canned after 1 year.  Your very own words.   Maybe re-read your own post before firing off so heated.  I read that just fine.

For a guy who wants to plays the victim card for getting called out with personal attacks, you're definitely throwing stones in glass houses here.   The take was bad.  Bad takes, good takes, they're all fair game.  That's the posting world we live in.  We don't have to agree.   But you're the one firing personal jabs now.   How ironic is that.  

Just saying.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Broncofan

[broncosfan_101]

10 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

 EDIT - and for the record you arrogant prick, I was not calling for Patons removal. Read what I actually wrote.

Amazing.

 

 

 

 

It’s amazing. 

[broncosfan_101]

1 hour ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Could only watch the last 8 minutes or so, and now a pretty extensive highlight package, but Strnad stood out for the wrong reason a whole lot. Dang we miss our ILB’s. 

Watched that Keenum 4th down run a few times now and holy balls, Strnad needs to make that stop. No idea what he was trying to accomplish there. 

[BroncoBruin]

I think our late TD drive pissed me off more than any of the bad things we’ve seen this year. The way that offense was operating, I had zero confidence in them coming back. Maybe they never stop the run on that last drive, but they probably cost the defense a minute or two with the lack of pace and inability to make a play downfield. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by BroncoBruin

[Broncofan]

5 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I think our late TD drive pissed me off more than any of the bad things we’ve seen this year. The way that offense was operating, I had zero confidence in them coming back. Maybe they never stop the run on that last drive, but they probably cost the defense a minute or two with the lack of pace and inability to make a play downfield. 

It's going to go unnoticed, but that sums up Fangio's tenure as HC so much.   17 play drive.   Which by itself, OK, do what you have to do.

But literally ZERO urgency.   Down 10.   When your D can't stop the run game, which uses up 40 secs per play.  It's just mind-boggling to the nth degree.

Honestly, though, it's for the best - this should be the final nail in the coffin perception-wise with the FO.   Maybe it takes a bad loss to WFT, but the reality is this L, with Keenum as QB, no starting RB's x2, no RT, OBJ clearly hampered, and them losing their best CB in-game, and not having their starting ILB - no matter our injuries, this was literally a CLE team that was in WAY worse shape than we were.   And we still got outplayed by a mile.

If Harris doesn't block the FG, and the clock run out, we would have likely lost even harder.  There's no way to think we were the better team tonight.  The score actually masks how bad we played this game overall.   I give credit to the team for fighting hard, but again a terrible 1H dooms us, and can't overcome the game management deficiencies and our QB limitations.   

This will likely be one of the signature L's that gets referenced when GM Paton does clean house with the coaching staff.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

Should mention 3 players & 1 unit who played well:

1.  Javonte Williams - man, oh man.  The guy's going to ball out when MG3 is gone.

2.  ST's - no ideal if it's just that CLE isn't that good, but ST's weren't a total minus.   They're a big reason the game was close, with the blocked FG.

3.  Kendall Hinton - wasn't amazing, but he actually showed flashes of separation ability.  He's still a work in progress, but he's got some actual ceiling.  Make no mistake, when Jeudy is back, he's back to being our 4th WR, but there's at least a flash of talent & skills to work with.

4.  Jonathan Cooper was one guy who got some pressure vs. CLE.  Worth watching to see if he can build on it (although he whiffed hard on an open look at Keenum, getting that opp was good on him - let's see him convert next time).

Edited October 22, 2021 by Broncofan

[BroncoBruin]

8 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

It's going to go unnoticed, but that sums up Fangio's tenure as HC so much.   17 play drive.   Which by itself, OK, do what you have to do.

But literally ZERO urgency.   Down 10.   When your D can't stop the run game, which uses up 40 secs per play.  It's just mind-boggling to the nth degree.

Honestly, though, it's for the best - this should be the final nail in the coffin perception-wise with the FO.   Maybe it takes a bad loss to WFT, but the reality is this L, with Keenum as QB, no starting RB's x2, no RT, OBJ clearly hampered, and them losing their best CB in-game, and not having their starting ILB - no matter our injuries, this was literally a CLE team that was in WAY worse shape than we were.   And we still got outplayed by a mile.

If Harris doesn't block the FG, and the clock run out, we would have likely lost even harder.  There's no way to think we were the better team.   I give credit to the team for fighting hard, but again a terrible 1H dooms us.    This will likely be one of the signature L's that gets referenced when GM Paton does clean house with the coaching staff.

Four straight ugly losses is 2017 VJ territory. Fangio had his issues in the past but most of the blame rightly fell on a lack of overall talent in 2019, no QB, then a bad run of injuries in 2020. This year even with the injuries and terrible play in all phases, Fangio as HC has felt like a bigger issue than anything. It’s probably one the biggest HC meltdowns I’ve ever seen. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by BroncoBruin

[Broncofan]

12 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Four straight ugly losses is 2017 VJ territory. Fangio had his issues in the past but most of the blame rightly fell on a lack of overall talent in 2019, no QB, then a bad run of injuries in 2020. This year even with the injuries and terrible play in all phases, Fangio as HC has felt like a bigger issue than anything. It’s probably one the biggest HC meltdowns I’ve ever seen. 

That's entirely fair.  When we had little talent, Fangio had us ready to play, and we kept games close.  Our young guys progressed.     He was always a minus in the game management department, but he got the most of our limited talent - we actually had top half DVOA D's both year.   I get that Fuller & Jackson have lost a half-step, no one else can rush the passer but Von (that was PAINFULLY obvious after Von left), and losing our ILB's has killed our run D.   But it's also that we appear outmatched in ALL facets of the game right now.  

Honestly, when it was 10-0, it felt like CLE was 1 broken tackle on Johnson, or 1 chunk pass play from CLE blowing our doors off.   In that respect, Keenum's limitations probably kept us in the game (on the throw to Hunter Bryant in the 2Q, he leads him, Bryant is still running, and that drive probably doesn't stall at the mid-20's, which led to the blocked FG), and his pocket awareness was awful - like in his DEN days, we just didn't mount much of a rush.  He made about 4 boneheaded mistakes, too - but we couldn't turn the ball over.   Other teams will make him pay at least 1x if he keeps making 3-4 mistakes a game like that.    But even with Keenum as QB, knowing they'd want to run the ball - they rolled us for 180+ yards.

We can't stay on the field on 3rd down, and we can't stop the run, nor can we turn the ball over.   Our QB can't throw a deep ball, and until Jeudy returns, we have no one who can win with separation to make it easier on the QB.   It's pretty depressing to say the least.    Getting an elite QB would fix a LOT of our problems on O - but it won't fix the D issues that have suddenly arisen.  That for certain will doom Fangio - if we're not a good D, then his usefulness is gone.   

I mean this in the most sincere way - we're better off losing to WFT in 10 days.   That would almost certainly force the FO's hand (at the very least, Shurmur's gone, and Fangio sees the writing and we look forward to letting the kids play and trading guys who won't be back next year at the deadline). 

We're definitely getting into VJ-awful-PR territory now.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Broncofan

[lomaxgrUK]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:19 AM, lomaxgrUK said:

Same story for us:

Stop the run on Defense. Force  3rd and 6+.

Stay out of 3rd and long on Offense.

I really can't be bothered going into more detail, because that's all it comes down to.

Didn't stop the run (against a team that can't pass).

Didn't stay out of 3rd and long.

He's far from the only one, but that performance from Justin Strnad was maybe the worst LB performance I have ever seen. 

The first drive of the game could've got Fangio the sack there and then.

And regardless of circumstance, 70 yards on Offense for a 1st half is just abysmal once again. 

In the first halves of their last 4 games, the Broncos have had a total of 452 yards and 20 (that's TWENTY) points. That is good for an average of 113 yards and 5 points in the 1st half.

Regardless of ANY circumstance (outside of your entire QB room being inactive due to COVID restrictions), someone's head has to roll for that. It just has to.

I thought Teddy was the best QB for this team to win football games. To an extent, I think a healthy Teddy might still be. But he's had his chance and for whatever reason, he has failed. You cannot, under any circumstance, average 113 yards of Offense and 5 points in the first half over a 4 game stretch of the kind we just faced.

He won't fix things in my opinion, but nobody can begrudge Drew going in at this point.

Edited October 22, 2021 by lomaxgrUK

[lomaxgrUK]

3 hours ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Could only watch the last 8 minutes or so, and now a pretty extensive highlight package, but Strnad stood out for the wrong reason a whole lot. Dang we miss our ILB’s. 

Don't worry, it encapsulated the entire game.

[lomaxgrUK]

Death, taxes, and Noah Fant not being able to break ONE tackle from a Defensive Back to get a 1st down on 3rd down.

[jsthomp2007]

Why was Javonte so limited in the game?  I only saw him on a few snaps?  You would think he could have helped with controlling the clock to a point.  I think I saw a three and out that took 41 seconds, is that on Shurmer?  I was watching the Braves between commercial timeouts of the Broncos game, and every time I switched back to the Broncos, the Broncos never had the ball...what was the time of possession, it couldn't have been long. 

Also, two players that stood out to me were Surtain.  He looks the like the real deal, I cannot wait till he has an owner, a good coaching staff, and some players around him that give a damn.  Also when Von went out, it seemed like Jonathan Cooper seized the moment; he looked explosive. 

I have been impressed with the rookies so far.  We just need to run these coaches out of town.  But I heard that won't happen till the Broncos get an owner.  AAA was right, this team is not going anywhere without a new owner.  That needs to happen sooner than later.  This is embarrassing...all of this talent, and the Broncos cannot put up 20 points to beat a banged up Browns team? 

[lomaxgrUK]

1 hour ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Why was Javonte so limited in the game?  I only saw him on a few snaps?  You would think he could have helped with controlling the clock to a point.  I think I saw a three and out that took 41 seconds, is that on Shurmer? 

29 snaps for Gordon, 21 for Williams. Not too bad of a disparity, and I think the logic is that Gordon is a better pass protector to help with Garrett and Clowney (by 'better', that includes understanding of where the blitz is coming from).

We just sucked in area of Offense in the 1st half. We couldn't run or pass. In those conditions with our calibre of QB, you have to be able to run the ball to setup pass plays. We can't run the ball when the Defense knows we're running the ball. That's a problem. It certainly wasn't a problem for the Browns.

1 hour ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Also, two players that stood out to me were Surtain.  He looks the like the real deal, I cannot wait till he has an owner, a good coaching staff, and some players around him that give a damn.  Also when Von went out, it seemed like Jonathan Cooper seized the moment; he looked explosive.

Surtain is getting better each week. I like Callahan from a technique standpoint, but with his size limitations, you could argue Surtain is our best CB right now (and frankly with how Simmons is playing, you could say he's our best DB).

Cooper had his best game as a pro, no doubt. 3 QB hits in a game without much pass rushing opportunity. That's excellent production. He hasn't flashed much at all since preseason, but he did in this game.

With how awful Malik Reed is playing, Cooper has to be inline for more snaps next game.

 

 

 

[broncosfan07]

8 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

I think our late TD drive pissed me off more than any of the bad things we’ve seen this year. The way that offense was operating, I had zero confidence in them coming back. Maybe they never stop the run on that last drive, but they probably cost the defense a minute or two with the lack of pace and inability to make a play downfield. 

Pretty much sums up Fangio’s career here, always too little too late to come back. That kind of stuff is acceptable in year 1, maybe some in year 2 with COVID and 4 different QBs starting games. Year 3 though?

[Broncofan]

5 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

 

I thought Teddy was the best QB for this team to win football games. To an extent, I think a healthy Teddy might still be. But he's had his chance and for whatever reason, he has failed. You cannot, under any circumstance, average 113 yards of Offense and 5 points in the first half over a 4 game stretch of the kind we just faced.

He won't fix things in my opinion, but nobody can begrudge Drew going in at this point.

I think Lock's going to start soon.   As for Teddy, this is him - healthy & sound, he won't lose games with his decisions, but he can't bring teams back.   His 2Q INT was a major mistake, cost us at least 3 pts.   But in general, the lack of ability to march down the field with chunk plays is definitely all Teddy B.    So when we face a better team, it's a tall task.    With a good OC, solid OL and great cast - maybe it could work.   But that's certainly not us ATM.

Regardless of who is QB, Jeudy's return will likely jolt the O.   He's a true difference marker, and he'll get separation.   But in a lot of ways, it's just a mask for how much we need a real QB upgrade.   I pounded the table for Stafford at 1.9 (even if he may not have wanted to go here over LAR as his 1st choice, should have made the offer instead of 1.9 for their 2nd).     I supported Fields at 1.9 (to be clear, he wouldn't be ready to help us now, more next year, which is why Paton & co. passed).   It's just until we address QB, the O problems will not go away.   And sadly, I do not think Lock is at all the answer - but at the same time, if it's a lost season, there's very little harm in confirming this.   A L vs. WFT and I think that's very much in play (if Teddy B is still banged up, obviously could be sooner, but reading where Fangio is at, think we see 1 more week of Teddy B).