LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, candyman93 said: That’s fair and I do “trust science” However, where’s the studies done on the impact of player improvement / development in practice and more reps? I doubt anyone has even bothered as I doubt anyone would argue it. Guys will get better with more reps, unquestionably. The issue is weighing risk vs reward. Im assuming coaches would take lesser developmental gains in exchange for increased availability (which in turn could lead to increased development because you’re missing less time due to injuries). I think idea is you train your body as much as possible in controlled environments, train your mind at every opportunity (games, practice, meetings, film room) and cross your fingers and hope for the best when the pads start cracking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Im assuming coaches would take lesser developmental gains in exchange for increased availability This is the part I debate. Practice not only helps your starters, but their backups as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 minute ago, MWil23 said: Again, my criticism of Baker comes down to: 1. He is almost at the very bottom of the NFL when facing pressure, and he's actually getting worse, let alone getting better or even plateauing 2. He is way too inconsistent when the game plan gets thrown out the window (which has to happen due to a variety of factors, such as time, down/distance, 2 minute drill, etc.) 3. He really struggles to read pressure/a defense and know where to go with the football presnap, let alone making hot routes, sliding protection, or audibles Make no mistake, I don't think Baker is BAD, and if our defense wasn't an abomination, we'd be 4-2 (I still think we lose to the Chiefs with those 3 second half turnovers) and maybe even have a SHOT against Arizona (that OBJ drop and those 2 TD that were in the Red Zone at 3rd and 21 and 3rd and 13 stand out), but I'd still have some concerns. Can HE be the reason WHY this offense is good? Can he carry an offense when we need him to (injuries, off script, etc.)? SHOULD we be paying him top tier money and/or a long term contract if we're going to get this type of a return (NO, we absolutely shouldn't IMO)? I love his attitude. I love his intensity. I love his toughness. I love his intangibles. Those above concerns are absolutely legitimate and warranted. No, they're not all on him (The OT situation, the defense giving up a ton of points, both RB getting hurt), but at the same time, Lamar Jackson has carried that Baltimore offense on his back this year with similar issues on the offensive side with injuries, so I don't want to hear this overly apologetic narrative that somehow it can't be done either (and yes, I'm well aware of how good/great that Baltimore defense is). I mean, I know we all like to joke about Lamar being a RB, but Baker isn’t in his stratosphere as a player right now and really never has been. I think Baker could have a longer career, etc, but he’s not capable of taking over games like Lamar. Who is though really? Much like @buno67 has said, there are issues on this team other than Baker that need to be fixed regardless and there’s not a clear cut upgrade available most likely in 2022. Fix what can be fixed. If/when Baker flames out and there’s a chance to upgrade, do it. As far as the contract, I think we’re a year or two away from anything long term happening if it ever does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 minute ago, candyman93 said: This is the part I debate. Practice not only helps your starters, but their backups as well. Sure, but rosters aren’t big enough to allow for starters to rest and reserves to get in work. You can’t risk starters to develop their backups. And I imagine those reserves get more reps earlier in the week when vets are taking some time to recover from the previous Sunday. I think many of us think back to our days of playing when we were 17-18 and assume it’s similar. Many of these guys are late 20’s/early 30’s with a lot of wear and tear on their bodies. You don’t just go drinking with your buddies after the game a lounge around for half a day and you’re back to being good to go at this level. Just listen to some of the stuff Joe Thomas said about his weekly prep. I’m sure he’s not a unique case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 38 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I mean, I know we all like to joke about Lamar being a RB, but Baker isn’t in his stratosphere as a player right now and really never has been. I think Baker could have a longer career, etc, but he’s not capable of taking over games like Lamar. Who is though really? Classic Browns getting the third best QB in the draft when they have the #1 overall pick tbh. 38 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Much like @buno67 has said, there are issues on this team other than Baker that need to be fixed regardless and there’s not a clear cut upgrade available most likely in 2022. Fix what can be fixed. Here's a thought: Play JJ3 in the box where he was a stud instead of putting him in a position of weakness as a CF, when Delpit and LeCounte are both likely much better suited for that role, and have Harrison as your "big nickel" guy, because he's not actually all that great. Quit running a bunch of absurd zone when the safeties are struggling to communicate rotations (which, btw, those rotations leave you vulnerable in the deep seams as well, which is one of the reasons why those 3rd/4th and long plays are killing us), and use those man/press man corners you drafted to play a lot more man, quarters, etc. because clearly what you're doing isn't working. 38 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: If/when Baker flames out and there’s a chance to upgrade, do it. Unless it's an obvious and major upgrade, then I'm not sure what the alternative is. I personally believe that Aaron Rodgers is flirting super hot and heavy with Pittsburgh, because of course he is...just when you think that they're on their way out, that'll happen, just you watch. 38 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: As far as the contract, I think we’re a year or two away from anything long term happening if it ever does. You have the fifth year option and a franchise tag, so the clock starts now on finding that replacement for Baker if he's not it. Until then, I'd go after some huge bodied WR and revamp some things on the defensive side, whether that's a true MLB to go beside JOK, a stud DT type to go beside McDowell, or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 hour ago, candyman93 said: I was told by Tretter that less practice = less injuries Can we just call this bull **** what it is? Guys don’t want to practice. I don’t think the blame should be on less practice as much as it should be on the training staff. They barely practiced last year and didn’t have this many injuries. The staff isn’t recovering them and monitoring them properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 Football is a violent game, and it's no coincidence each year that a good portion of the teams left at the end of the season are the healthiest ones. Not much you can do about ankle sprains and dislocated shoulders like JOK, Wills, and Baker (even Hunt perhaps), and Conklin's injury history was one of the reasons we got him on such a discount to begin with, not to mention Clowney. OBJ has been a medical nightmare for 3 years now, and Landry was a freak thing Week 2 as well. Soft muscle injuries and other stuff needs to get better, but playing with this type of physical style usually results in these things for a lot of teams like us as well (See: Baltimore, Pittsburgh) historically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaWg_LB. Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Excellent Game Day Thread......I was coming in here this morning to make one....I was going to do a theme "The Battle for the Soul of Man". Is a mans best Friend his Horse or his Dog....themed with Roheryn, Bucephelus and Man O War vs John Wicks Dog, Cujo, Snoopy and Lassie.... And Include that this will be the most Watched Game in Chubbtown, GA this week, where Nick and Bradley come from......a very interesting Story if you have never seen it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chubbtown,_Georgia And I was going to include some Giggly Bitts. I may be on Standby for Brother who needs an assist.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaWg_LB. Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 10 hours ago, nugpimpen said: Not gonna lie... if we lose this week, I don't know that I'll have the Will to make next week's GDT. May need someone on stand-by. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 It’s weird only being two days out from another game. It will be really sour to lose two games in such a short amount of time if that’s what happens. The injuries are rough right now. On the flipside, if we can scrape up a win somehow, it will be a much needed feeling and we can all walk proudly again this weekend before it ever even happens. These players have to hate these Thursday games though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Some thoughts I have on this game: Play the healthy guys 1. Start Keenum, and give Baker a rest, even if he thinks he can play through the pain 2. Run the damn football. Commit to it, and don't be worried about using D'Earnest and Demetric. These guys have looked pretty da.n good when given the opportunity! The Ravens have a couple of street free agents in there, and it appears to be "plug and play". I get that we are missing our starting Tackles, but the 5 wide thing has to be an exception, not the norm. 3. Fix the communication issues in the secondary. Duh...this goes without saying, but we have talent in the back half. Let's start playing to our strengths (As has been mentioned..bring up LOS safeties, and let deep safeties play deep! 4. Start blitzing more often. We don't need exotic blitzes, but Woods needs to start sending more than 4 on every down. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 42 minutes ago, big poppa pump said: Some thoughts I have on this game: Play the healthy guys 1. Start Keenum, and give Baker a rest, even if he thinks he can play through the pain 2. Run the damn football. Commit to it, and don't be worried about using D'Earnest and Demetric. These guys have looked pretty da.n good when given the opportunity! The Ravens have a couple of street free agents in there, and it appears to be "plug and play". I get that we are missing our starting Tackles, but the 5 wide thing has to be an exception, not the norm. 3. Fix the communication issues in the secondary. Duh...this goes without saying, but we have talent in the back half. Let's start playing to our strengths (As has been mentioned..bring up LOS safeties, and let deep safeties play deep! 4. Start blitzing more often. We don't need exotic blitzes, but Woods needs to start sending more than 4 on every down. 1. Agreed. Case Keenum is more than capable of winning games. He is a terrific backup QB to have for these exact situations. its not like we are tossing Drew Stanton out there or anything. 2. Agreed again. Coach got into his own head last game and since Nick was out, he went super pass happy. Johnson and Kelly looked great in preseason. Give them the ball and dont deviate from the gameplan. This isnt going to be a game where they need to put up a bunch of points to win. Play safe, play conservative and execute. The Broncos wont score more than 24pts. You dont need to air it out all game long trying to keep up with another high powered offense. 3. Do something there because whatevers going on isnt working 4. Its sort of embarassing how we never blitz but still get toasted in coverage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/10/browns-quarterback-baker-mayfield-reveals-labrum-completely-torn-expects-to-play-thursday-night.html Well he says it is completely torn, but it has been completely torn. I don't see the benefit of playing him this Thursday. Let him rest, ice, and rehab to be ready for Pittsburgh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, big poppa pump said: https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/10/browns-quarterback-baker-mayfield-reveals-labrum-completely-torn-expects-to-play-thursday-night.html Well he says it is completely torn, but it has been completely torn. I don't see the benefit of playing him this Thursday. Let him rest, ice, and rehab to be ready for Pittsburgh! At this point, if it's "completely torn", there's nothing that can be done until the off-season, and that means surgery. HOPEFULLY nothing else is structurally damaged at this point. I don't think that rest helps him with anything other than pain and inflammation at this time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, MWil23 said: At this point, if it's "completely torn", there's nothing that can be done until the off-season, and that means surgery. HOPEFULLY nothing else is structurally damaged at this point. I don't think that rest helps him with anything other than pain and inflammation at this time. Yep. As long as pain isn’t an issue, play him. Not really gonna so much more damage At this point either he plays the rest of the year and deals with it or just shut him down and get the surgery sooner rather than later. Either way I’m much less concerned about the QB than I am the tackles. If they’re out this week I sit Baker too tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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