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Derrick Henry 4 MVP


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2 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

I think he is saying because there are a lot of elite QBs that makes Henry more unique. Which is correct, but still stupid as hell. Justin Tucker is one of the most unique players  in NFL history, he's nobodies MVP either. 

 

 

Well, maybe he is the MVP of Ravens fans hearts, but you get my point. 

If you take Derrick Henry off the Titans...they suck. You take Tannehill off the Titans...they are just fine...because Henry is their offense. That's my rationale.

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15 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

From what I have seen they haven't been overly impressive. Maybe they are top 10 but I haven't seen much to show they are a top group. Even metrics like Adjusted Line Yards don't show them as doing great. Henry is a menace in the open field but they haven't been as good as last year IMO.

 

That being said I missed last nights game. Just going from a few games I watched back and forth on.

Just look at his big runs and it's easy to see. When the OL gets him to the 3rd level untouched, he's the GOAT. Otherwise he's not. Pretty simple.

10 minutes ago, JoshstraDaymus said:

With Ken Whisenhunt and then Mike Mularkey as head coaches and Mariota was never really developed. C'mon now.

So what you're saying is that Henry needs the following to be good:

  • Good coach/scheme
  • good OL
  • good QB

But if you take Henry off of this team, they're bad? How does this logic work?

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20 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

If you take Derrick Henry off that team, you still have an OL that's opening massive holes that any RB should be able to find and most NFL RB's are capable of making dudes miss in space. Nobody has the vision + speed + power combo that Henry has, but he is not what is making them a good team. They were a bad team with Henry + Mariota, they started becoming a good team with Tannehill at QB. It's crazy to see people propping up Tannehill in previous years and now saying he doesn't matter in order to prop up Derrick Henry. It's actually insane tbh since every single statistic tells us that RB's do not matter.

I'm watching his runs from last night and the common denominator on every single big run is he's untouched going into the 3rd level of the defense. This isn't Marshawn Lynch shaking guys off in the backfield and going for 25 yards, it's the OL opening lanes for a pickup truck to come accelerating through. We've already seen what happens when teams close those gaps on Henry.

Henry with Mariota was not the same back as Henry with Tannehill...I wish he was but he wasn't. Because he's been an absolute nightmare for division foes recently. He has improved substantially over the course of his career. It's not Tannehill...it's Henry. Late in the season in 2018, December 6 versus the Jaguars...he became a demi-God that only for the almighty himself could stop. Since that time he has been an unstoppable force. 

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Just now, sammymvpknight said:

Henry with Mariota was not the same back as Henry with Tannehill...I wish he was but he wasn't. Because he's been an absolute nightmare for division foes recently. He has improved substantially over the course of his career. It's not Tannehill...it's Henry. Late in the season in 2018, December 6 versus the Jaguars...he became a demi-God that only for the almighty himself could stop. Since that time he has been an unstoppable force. 

Hm, interesting...Then why didn't they do anything in the playoffs last year?

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I don't think it's the OL to the level one poster is describing it. But I also don't think Henry is having nearly as special of a season as some are making it out to be either. The bulk is absolutely fantastic. He is on a legitimate pace to contend with both the single season rushing yardage and single season rushing TD records. 6 games in, of course, but still. But he's also on pace to absolutely destroy the single season record for carries in a season, as well. Even without the 17th game, he would be. And I genuinely flip back and forth between whether this is the most impressive thing about Henry's season, or the least. Because on one hand, it's nuts that his body is holding up when they're literally giving him the ball 30 times per game, especially when most lead backs are literally getting half of that right now. But on the flip side, the bulk is really the only thing elevating him right now. Prior to the long run early in the Bills game, he was averaging like a yard less per carry than he did last year. On a per rush basis this year, he's worse than Elliott, Chubb, Taylor, Ekeler, etc. Like, he's on pace to top Dickerson's '84 season, but it's going to take him 80 more carries (and an extra game) to do it. But then I feel like if he survives 450+ carries, that's also something no one has ever done, so maybe that is impressive?

I don't know. I really don't know where to place Henry's season in my brain, at this point. And I can't shake my natural instinct, every time I see the whole "Henry has 260 more yards than anyone else," to immediately look up the fact that he also has 72 more carries. Like, if two RBs split the workload, and had the same overall result, would anyone be wow'd by that overall running game? Probably not, right? So should we be just because they gave all the carries to one guy? I don't know.

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3 hours ago, iknowcool said:

This is why I hate how the NFL MVP works.  

Henry leads the league in total yards and total touchdowns.  He is clearly the reason why the Titans are 4-2.  He could challenge LDT's 31 TDs.  He could break the record for most rushing yards in a season.

And yet I'm to believe he isn't even in the top 3 conversation?  
 

I hate how much we overthink this award.  Yeah, QBs are the most important part of football.  And by that logic, then well, even Joe Burrow is more worthy of MVP than Derrick Henry.  But it shouldn't be that way.  MVP shouldn't be taken so literally.  It should go to the guy who was the star of the season.  The one who was the most dominant.  The guy who had the most highlights and by and large was considered the best player on the field every week.  Yes I agree it should happen on a winning team, but IMO it just screws guys like Derrick Henry.  He's on pace for one of the greatest and most dominant seasons of all-time and doing it on a 4-2 Titans team.  He should be in the conversation and I'd argue he should be leading the pack.  

So Aaron Donald should have 4 MVPs?

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2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Hm, interesting...Then why didn't they do anything in the playoffs last year?

Why has Jackson never done well in the playoffs...with a fraction of the success of Henry? Does that mean Jackson is useless? Henry has been just about stoppable in the playoffs for the past three seasons. 

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Just now, sammymvpknight said:

Why has Jackson never done well in the playoffs...with a fraction of the success of Henry? Does that mean Jackson is useless? Henry has been just about stoppable in the playoffs for the past three seasons. 

Jackson did do well last year in the playoffs. Henry got completely bottled up and stopped, because we didn't let him get to the 2nd/3rd levels untouched. His production is largely the result of what his OL gives him.

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52 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

This is a very reactionary thread.

To be fair, I've been saying similar things about Henry since the Alvin Kamara threads in Comparisons.

(Remember when people tried to say Kamara was the better player?)

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I'm seeing a lot more praise for our run blocking than I've ever seen in a Titans gameday thread. Which probably means most folks see the nice plays, and fail to see how often they don't do the job / Henry gets hit for little to no gain right after handoff due to the blocking failing.

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Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Jackson did do well last year in the playoffs. Henry got completely bottled up and stopped, because we didn't let him get to the 2nd/3rd levels untouched. His production is largely the result of what his OL gives him.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. If QB is the "more important" position...then why have the Ravens been useless in the playoffs since Jackson has been town. The Titans have had MORE post-season success.

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1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

ask and ye shall receive:

Rushing Receiving
Rk Player From To Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD
1 Derrick Henry 2016 2021 16.0 79.1 0.8 1.1 9.9 0.0
2 Adrian Peterson 2007 2012 19.7 99.4 0.9 2.0 17.1 0.0

Bulk stats:

    Passing Rushing Receiving
Rk Player From To AV G QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Rate Lng Int Sk Yds Y/A AY/A NY/A ANY/A Att Yds TD Y/A Lng Rec Yds TD Y/R Lng
1 Derrick Henry 2016 2021 47 84   2 3 66.7 14 0 77.1 8 0 0 0 4.7 4.67 4.67 4.67 1344 6643 65 4.9 99 92 830 3 9.0 75
2 Adrian Peterson 2007 2012 79 89   0 0   0 0 .0 0 0 0 0         1754 8849 76 5.0 82 177 1526 4 8.6 63

AP definitely better.

The Derrick Henry we see today didn't emerge coming out of college. It wasn't until his third year (2018) that things really started to click for him.

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11 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

If you take Derrick Henry off the Titans...they suck. You take Tannehill off the Titans...they are just fine...because Henry is their offense. That's my rationale.

Yeah, he had almost 200 carries vs 8 men in the box last year. OL may be good but that's still showing two things

1- Less blockers than defenders in the box, they aren't just blocking 8 with 6 (counting TE or FB)

2- Teams are gearing up vs Henry WAY more than they are against Tannehill. Not bashing him either, but Henry is the reason that offense goes. If Henry goes down they aren't getting but a fraction of the yards and chunk plays. If you have someone who can do a similar job you don't throw a $12+ mil contract at a RB. With so much focus on Henry his stats SHOULD have been good. This year's dropoff is actually surprising to me.

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59 minutes ago, RavensfanRD said:

If Henry breaks 2K again, those clowns better do the right thing and give him the MVP. (Unless Lamar continues to go nuts, of course)

They robbed Henry last year.

There isn't a season in history that would qualify as being robbed with last years winner.

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3 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. If QB is the "more important" position...then why have the Ravens been useless in the playoffs since Jackson has been town. The Titans have had MORE post-season success.

The Ravens have struggled in the playoffs simply because in 2019 Lamar struggled and in 2020 he got hurt. And for better or worse, the entire ravens offense has not shown up in the playoffs. Whether it's the OL, Greg Roman, Lamar (in 2019) or even Mark Andrews. They've all failed.

2 minutes ago, RuskieTitan said:

The Derrick Henry we see today didn't emerge coming out of college. It wasn't until his third year (2018) that things really started to click for him.

Okay so year 3 through year 6:

Passing Rushing Receiving
Rk Player From To Cmp Att Yds TD Int Sk Yds Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD
1 Derrick Henry 2018 2021 0.0 0.1 0.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 20.0 102.1 1.0 1.3 10.5 0.0
2 Adrian Peterson 2009 2012 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 19.5 97.4 0.9 2.3 19.2 0.1

Henry slight edge rushing, AP noticeable edge receiving.

 

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