Derrick Henry 4 MVP

[Trojan]

Earlier someone brought up how AP and Henry compare, man include Henry's playoff run that's when he went "oh that's the leagues top back". He carried that team. The fact he hasn't broken down is insane. They go down in the score board most teams abandon the run, they give Henry 40 touches. There isn't a comp in the league right now. Henry is the only RB contender for MVP and he'd get voted over most of the "20 QBs more important" without a doubt including Tannehill who is a good QB. Lamar, Mahomes whatever elite QB is a higher favorite, but Henry is in the conversation and doing that as a RB is as freakish as Lamar's running ability as a QB. If Lamar continues to be a good QB while posting his all time running ability as a QB it's probably a tie breaker if both players carry their franchises to the playoffs, but Henry deserves shout out. 

[iknowcool]

Derrick Henry breaks FAR too many big runs for people to keep saying it all has to do with the OL.  I could get it if it was a one or two time a season kind of thing.  But he has done this every single season, and done it a lot more than any other back.  I think the only RBs in NFL history with more 50+ yard TD runs are Barry Sanders and Jim Brown.  And he ain't too far behind.  I think he's at 12, Sanders holds the record at 15.

His OL is good, yes.  But Henry is a special back.  He breaks those runs because he's got the size to break any tackle and the speed to out-run anyone on the field.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

4 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

Derrick Henry breaks FAR too many big runs for people to keep saying it all has to do with the OL.  I could get it if it was a one or two time a season kind of thing.  But he has done this every single season, and done it a lot more than any other back.  I think the only RBs in NFL history with more 50+ yard TD runs are Barry Sanders and Jim Brown.  And he ain't too far behind.  I think he's at 12, Sanders holds the record at 15.

His OL is good, yes.  But Henry is a special back.  He breaks those runs because he's got the size to break any tackle and the speed to out-run anyone on the field.

It's both, and my posts reflect that. The OL gives him a huge hole, he finds it and has the speed to turn those runs into home runs. 

[iknowcool]

1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

It's both, and my posts reflect that. The OL gives him a huge hole, he finds it and has the speed to turn those runs into home runs. 

How is it any different than a QB making a great throw to a wide receiver who gets separation?  Or a QB making a great throw to a WR who still needs to make a great catch in traffic?  Everyone benefits from someone else on the team. 

You could argue that Henry wouldn't be doing this same kind of stuff on a bad team like the Jets, but you could also argue Kyler Murray wouldn't be doing the things he is doing on a bad team like the Lions.  I don't see why it is an argument that should be held more against Henry than it is other QBs putting up big numbers this year.  

[renndawg37]

The talk of the offensive line being so good is funny. If you actually watch the Titans, which it's obvious very few of you actually do, the offensive line is below average. Not to mention our two best linemen (Lewan and Saffold) have been constantly in and out of the lineup...

Henry is a different breed. Put another guy in there and he is on injured reserve right now, and was probably averaging less than 4 yards per carry prior to that. 

[ttitansfan4life]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

This was touched on previously, but two things:

1. He has like 72 more carries than the next highest RB
2. I'm pretty sure his 76-yard touchdown the other night included like 74 yards-after-contact, which is partially why I don't actually like that stat, because he ran into his own guy and wasn't even touched by a defender.

Because he can stay healthy and doesn’t share a backfield like other top backs.

[Jotun_Fan]

In this day and age he'd have to accomplish something REALLY special to win MVP as an RB, like break the yardage/YPG/TD records all at once. Not sure just breaking the yardage record with an extra game will be enough

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, iknowcool said:

How is it any different than a QB making a great throw to a wide receiver who gets separation?  Or a QB making a great throw to a WR who still needs to make a great catch in traffic?  Everyone benefits from someone else on the team. 

You could argue that Henry wouldn't be doing this same kind of stuff on a bad team like the Jets, but you could also argue Kyler Murray wouldn't be doing the things he is doing on a bad team like the Lions.  I don't see why it is an argument that should be held more against Henry than it is other QBs putting up big numbers this year.  

Because a WR can be schemed open. You can't scheme your OL to make holes for the RB (well, you can, but they still have to beat their guy, and that's not the same for a WR). We all know RB production is largely dependent on the OL, much like WR production is largely dependent on the QB. It's why the RB position is de-valued (that, and the fact that most RB's can be easily replaced).

1 hour ago, renndawg37 said:

The talk of the offensive line being so good is funny. If you actually watch the Titans, which it's obvious very few of you actually do, the offensive line is below average. Not to mention our two best linemen (Lewan and Saffold) have been constantly in and out of the lineup...

Henry is a different breed. Put another guy in there and he is on injured reserve right now, and was probably averaging less than 4 yards per carry prior to that. 

It's entirely fair to say that 95% of the time the Titans' OL is bad, but 5% of the time they open a massive hole and Henry hits a home run, which I think follows the eye test. Henry doesn't do much most of the game, then suddenly he's walking into your safeties without being touched.

1 hour ago, ttitansfan4life said:

Because he can stay healthy and doesn’t share a backfield like other top backs.

And those are indeed traits to be admired about him, unlike guys like LaDainian Tomlinson.

Edited October 20, 2021 by AFlaccoSeagulls

[THE DUKE]

His quality is quantity.  He's 13th in the league in yards per rush.

[Mesa_Titan]

7 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

His quality is quantity.  He's 13th in the league in yards per rush.

Lmao. What an embarrassing oversimplification. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

3 minutes ago, Mesa_Titan said:

Lmao. What an embarrassing oversimplification. 

I am curious about this - what are his per-carry or per-rush stats/rankings? Because I think we all agree just using bulk stats is completely misleading.

Him being 13th in YPC might just be an inconvenient truth, OR especially if there's no carry minimum it also might be misleading.

Edited October 20, 2021 by AFlaccoSeagulls

[THE DUKE]

1 minute ago, Mesa_Titan said:

Lmao. What an embarrassing oversimplification. 

I'm not saying he isn't great.  He is, keeping up that level of production over that many reps is fairly amazing, but other than holding up under the workload, its not anything we haven't seen before. I even say he is a legit MVP candidate this year, i'm just not wowed beyond measure like social media seems to be just looking at raw yards and TD's.

[Mesa_Titan]

33 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I am curious about this - what are his per-carry or per-rush stats/rankings? Because I think we all agree just using bulk stats is completely misleading.

Him being 13th in YPC might just be an inconvenient truth, OR especially if there's no carry minimum it also might be misleading.

Just using that stat without any context irritates me. Tony Pollard is second in rushes per attempt. Zeke is 10th. Anyone willing to say Pollard is the better running back?

It also doesn’t take into context the fronts Henry has to deal with. In 2019 for example, Henry had 244 carries with 8 men in the box. He averaged over 5 yards a carry on those runs with those fronts. That season the next closest was Davlin Cook, and he faced 166 carries of 8 man fronts. 

Henry is light years better than any RB in the NFL right now, not only because of his talent, which is immense, it’s also because of his durability. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

20 minutes ago, Mesa_Titan said:

Just using that stat without any context irritates me. Tony Pollard is second in rushes per attempt. Zeke is 10th. Anyone willing to say Pollard is the better running back?

Actually? I think Pollard provides significantly more "juice" than Zeke does at this point. As far as being a better RB? I don't know.

20 minutes ago, Mesa_Titan said:

It also doesn’t take into context the fronts Henry has to deal with. In 2019 for example, Henry had 244 carries with 8 men in the box. He averaged over 5 yards a carry on those runs with those fronts. That season the next closest was Davlin Cook, and he faced 166 carries of 8 man fronts. 

Henry is light years better than any RB in the NFL right now, not only because of his talent, which is immense, it’s also because of his durability. 

Oh I think he's by far the best RB in the NFL, I don't think that's up to debate. I just don't think he's an MVP candidate whatsoever.

[Mesa_Titan]

4 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Actually? I think Pollard provides significantly more "juice" than Zeke does at this point. As far as being a better RB? I don't know.

Oh I think he's by far the best RB in the NFL, I don't think that's up to debate. I just don't think he's an MVP candidate whatsoever.

Yeah I’m not here to debate that. As far as MVP goes, should he be in the discussion? I think he should, but as the award is interpreted he shouldn’t. I was just pointing out that YPC stat and how citing that alone is meaningless.