fortdetroit Posted November 6, 2021 Author Share Posted November 6, 2021 The Lions made a big big mistake by taking Goff back in the Stafford trade. If it was a necessity to get the Rams deal done, then they should have paid some of his salary and tried to pawn him off to another team for a 3rd rounder before the entire league truly realized he's one of the worst QBs in the league. Now we're stuck with this loser for another year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 On 10/20/2021 at 6:33 PM, jrry32 said: He's already been more than an adequate starter. I feel like people were defensibly high on him in 2017 and 2018. Had a really nice 2nd and 3rd season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortdetroit Posted November 6, 2021 Author Share Posted November 6, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, jrry32 said: The same guy went to back to back Pro Bowls, led his team to a Super Bowl, led the NFL's highest scoring offense in 2017 and second highest scoring offense in 2018, and ranked in the top 10 in passer rating in back to back years. He did all that before 25 years old. He didn't use to dump the ball down all the time. He didn't use to stare down his reads. And he saw the field well enough to accomplish all those things. If manufacturing top QB play was so easy, teams wouldn't be paying out of their arses to keep their QBs. Nah, Goff was just a good player. Right now, he's not that guy. Great coaches find a way to cover up flaws and play to strengths. But the claim that you can get almost any NFL caliber QB to produce like a top 5 or 10 QB is frankly laughable. If you put a lot of talent around starting caliber guys and find a scheme that plays to their strengths and minimizes their weaknesses, they can do great things for you. Goff and Tannehill are both examples of that. But those guys still have to have the ability. And QBs who aren't starting caliber don't have that ability. Otherwise, we'd see backups routinely doing what guys like Goff and Tannehill have. I hope Goff has an opportunity to find a team that gives him a chance at success again, like Tannehill did. The 2021 Lions aren't that. If you give a guy like Goff one of the least talented offenses in the NFL, he's not going to perform for you. He's not going to elevate that offense. Again, you're confusing stats with actual play. No one is denying he had top end stats for a few years - the stats were never reflective of the type of QB he was though. He also had McVay reading defenses in the headset for him because he didn't know now, had an elite running game with Gurley to lean on which destroyed the opposing defenses and was their focus, and a screen, play action, and motion heavy offense which helped paper over Goff's poor play until the league eventually caught on. It's absolutely not a coincidence that his "great" two seasons happened when Todd Gurley was unstoppable either. Goff has NEVER proven he could be a quality QB in a system where an elite RB/running game weren't the focus of the opposing defenses. Edited November 6, 2021 by fortdetroit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 10 minutes ago, fortdetroit said: The Lions made a big big mistake by taking Goff back in the Stafford trade. If it was a necessity to get the Rams deal done, then they should have paid some of his salary and tried to pawn him off to another team for a 3rd rounder before the entire league truly realized he's one of the worst QBs in the league. Now we're stuck with this loser for another year. You're fully able to cut him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortdetroit Posted November 6, 2021 Author Share Posted November 6, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, jrry32 said: You're fully able to cut him. Yes, in the sense that you can technically cut anyone on your roster if you want to absorb the dead cap hit. Cutting him this year would be a 41M cap hit, and next year (due to a dumb restructure that happened this season) would be a 30M cap hit. I believe either of those dead cap hits would be NFL records, it's not going to happen. Edited November 6, 2021 by fortdetroit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 1 minute ago, fortdetroit said: Again, you're confusing stats with actual play. No one is denying he had top end stats for a few years - the stats were never reflective of the type of QB he was though. He also had McVay reading defenses in the headset for him because he didn't know now, had an elite running game with Gurley to lean on which destroyed the opposing defenses and was their focus, and a screen, play action, and motion heavy offense which helped paper over Goff's poor play until the league eventually caught on. It's absolutely not a coincidence that his "great" two seasons happened when Todd Gurley was unstoppable either. No, man, you're thinking that you can get stats without actual play. And if McVay was reading defenses in the headset for him, why don't the Lions just have somebody do that? And no, it isn't a coincidence that Goff was great with a great running game. Just like it's not a coincidence that Ryan Tannehill thrived with a great running game and Arthur Smith in Tennessee. Here's some actual play: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, fortdetroit said: Yes, in the sense that you can technically cut anyone on your roster if you want to absorb the dead cap hit. Cutting him this year would be a 41M cap hit, and next year (due to a dumb restructure that happened this season) would be a 30M cap hit. I believe either of those dead cap hits would be NFL records, it's not going to happen. They can use the post-June 1st designation after the year, or they can eat the cap hit. If you're drafting a QB in the first round, what's it matter? You're still saving $1 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 17 minutes ago, fortdetroit said: Again, you're confusing stats with actual play. No one is denying he had top end stats for a few years - the stats were never reflective of the type of QB he was though. He also had McVay reading defenses in the headset for him because he didn't know now, had an elite running game with Gurley to lean on which destroyed the opposing defenses and was their focus, and a screen, play action, and motion heavy offense which helped paper over Goff's poor play until the league eventually caught on. It's absolutely not a coincidence that his "great" two seasons happened when Todd Gurley was unstoppable either. Goff has NEVER proven he could be a quality QB in a system where an elite RB/running game weren't the focus of the opposing defenses. Eh, Goff played really well for a couple years. Yes, he was in just about the best position a QB could ask for, but that doesn't mean he didn't play really well. The stats are reflective enough. Doesn't mean he will play like that every year, but you can't take those years away from him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 4 hours ago, fortdetroit said: Again, you're confusing stats with actual play. Goff has NEVER proven he could be a quality QB in a system where an elite RB/running game weren't the focus of the opposing defenses. You can put it even more simply than that. He’s never won an NFL game without McVay in his headset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeotheLion Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 10 hours ago, fortdetroit said: Again, you're confusing stats with actual play. No one is denying he had top end stats for a few years - the stats were never reflective of the type of QB he was though. He also had McVay reading defenses in the headset for him because he didn't know now, had an elite running game with Gurley to lean on which destroyed the opposing defenses and was their focus, and a screen, play action, and motion heavy offense which helped paper over Goff's poor play until the league eventually caught on. It's absolutely not a coincidence that his "great" two seasons happened when Todd Gurley was unstoppable either. Goff has NEVER proven he could be a quality QB in a system where an elite RB/running game weren't the focus of the opposing defenses. Gurley started falling off pretty early in 2018. Almost all of Goff's best 2018 games (Vikings, Chiefs, Saints) were when Gurley was at best okay. 2017 the offense ran through Gurley but the 2018 offense beat you through the air. And if Goff's earlier success was 100% due to McVay then why did he decide to extend him with the most guaranteed money ever? He could have moved on after the SB with either a franchise tag or another cheaper alternative. I never understand how some people think McVay is so smart that he deserves all the credit but never consider why he would make such a blunder of an extension. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl4life07 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 Goff is the perfect example of why coaching matters. He has talent no doubt. People act like he was a reach at 1st overall. Baker imo was a reach 1st overall but not Goff. Goff was being talked about as a potential 1st overall pick when he was a sophomore at Cal. He help Cal get better and better each year he was there. The perception that Goff wasnt any good was bc he had a bum for a coach in Jeff Fisher. The second McVay became head coach Goff took off in 2017 and 2018. McVay helped Cousins value shoot through the roof. Remember at one point and time Cousins had little to no value then McVay took over as Washington OC and Cousins started to play so well that the debate was should Washington give Cousins a big contract? Obviously they didnt and he went to Minnesota but that was mostly bc of McVay. Now with Goff, I agree that Gurley was a huge reason Goff had so much success. Lets not forget though that people had questions when McVay became head coach how would he use Gurley? People questioned that bc of Washington not being successful in the running game. Gurley was different animal and had not he gotten hurt and his career went down I truly think Goff and this Rams offense would still be hitting on high cylinders. Just look at what everyone says is the best QB of this generation in Mahomes. He through 50 tds and had an historic 1st year bc he had Hunt. He hasnt had a great back since and his production has declined. The Chiefs dont have a running game at all this year and Mahomes looks horrible. Nothing has changed in terms of the system. He still has Hill and Kelce. They spent tons of resources on the OL and have other deep threats at receiver like Hardman but yet Mahomes is struggling. I think Goff can still figure it out but he needs to be with a better coach and he needs weapons around him. The Lions have neither. The only thing the Lions have is a talented back and the potential of a top 5 OL if they ever get healthy and grow together. Goff wont be the future of the Lions but Id love to see Goff with the Saints. Lets just say the Saints somehow get OBJ to add to Kamara and Ingram in the backfield. When healthy the Saints have a top 5 OL and Payton is a great offensive mind. Plus the Saints have a really tough defense and that Superdome is a great homefield advantage. Id love for the Saints to get Goff and I think he will thrive there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flounch Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 Funny that in Goff topic, only people who defend him are the same people defending him in the Rams topic. I can't defend him as he didn't progress since the Bears game where his weakness was exposed. Since this game, he had his moment but he didn't elevate his game. He still doesn't know how to read defense and that's why Mcvay kicked him out of the team. Mcvay has maximise his potential at his best and couldn't make more progress with him as Goff is limited in football IQ, making the same mistake over games. Among QB, i will put Goff between 20-32 in term of ranking. It's too bad because he has a good throw, a good mechanic but he cannot read defense, cannot sense pressure, not aware in the pocket and that's a killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 Goff on a good team is capable of winning and having success. Goff on a bad team with little to no talent is not. I'm other words, he's no worse than 95% of other QBs in the league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJaxxenGuy Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 I don’t think Goff is that great but I’d be hard pressed to think any QB could do well in Detroit right now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 View in my viewpoint I think when a quarterback who is young and has not been in the league very long chose potential in a good offensive scheme they tend to be looked at as a top young quarterback. Jared Goff showed flashes Early flashes early and at that time and at that time I'm not sure anyone could honestly say they knew for sure that those flashes were the high point of his potential. Jared Goff will never be the guy that is going to win you a Super Bowl or elevate the talent around him he is a guy in my opinion that you can win with if the talent around him hes already elite. But the issue is that elite talent has got to be able to elevate him not the other way around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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