broncosfan_101 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Supremely overrated, or he’s just lost his touch. The OL is bad, even though there’s certainly a decent baseline of talent. Teddy has seen the 2nd highest rate of pressures per drop back this season, and while playcalling/personnel is surely part of that, the linemen themselves straight up haven’t been good enough. Bolles had one great year, Risner was good as a rookie, but that’s about all the positives we’ve seen in his 3 seasons here. Tell me I’m wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bMiller031 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Wasn’t the OL a pre-season “strength” of this team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan_101 Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 27 minutes ago, bMiller031 said: Wasn’t the OL a pre-season “strength” of this team? I’m not sure anyone considered it a “strength” exactly, but it sure seemed like there were enough talented options on the interior to make it average at least, with a stud LT to anchor everything. That…has not happened. I’d like to hear opinions as to why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) I’ve been mulling this as well. One, I do think MM is a good coach but it is right to question the results. Two, I do wonder how much the game plans and play-calling have been affecting the play of the OL play (I think by now we have to agree that Shurmur is an awful OC and Teddy is a limited QB). MM was, not just by friendly media and fans, considered as good an OL coach as there is in the game. Maybe it’s a talent issue? Bolles is an elite athlete but also a meathead. Risner looked like a Quinten Nelson 2.0 his rookie year but has fallen off, why? Cush looks better (full disclosure I’m not an OL expert). While the right side has always been a little rough, Glasgow was well-regarded and then of course we have had a revolving door at RT; the last good RT we had was Orlando Franklin. Injuries? Coaching? What is it? The OL is the most important unit on the field and one that needs depth. There are a lot of questions but few answers. Edited October 20, 2021 by AnAngryAmerican 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Munchak as OL coach has been the biggest disappointment of the coaching staff. His work is hardly distinguishable from the crap OL play we got in the 4-5 seasons prior to his hiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 7 hours ago, bMiller031 said: Wasn’t the OL a pre-season “strength” of this team? I think more of a pre-season hope. I liked our OT's but had big questions on the IOL. IMO Risner has never been a good OG, Cush was absolutely awful last year and Glasgow is just so-so. The hope was Cush would improve drastically (he hasn't), Risner would bounce back from whatever injury he had and would play great (he hasn't) and Glasgow would step up (he didn't). Meinerz still has a lot to learn. Muti should be given a shot at LG. It's his natural position and wouldn't expose his lateral deficiencies so much. In short, the IOL is still a mess and the OT's aren't playing a lot better. That being said, they are as a group far better at run blocking than at pass pro. Shurmer deciding to go pass heavy in our 3 losses will always baffle me. We're just not built for that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Could partially be a scheme issue as well. Everything about Shurmer’s offense sucks. It’s boring and predictable which certainly doesn’t do our linemen any favors. I would argue that our offensive line performed better last year with less talent/experience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 I think the scheme points raised by @AnAngryAmericanet all are valid. In my opinion, it's less about the individual playcalls and more about the inconsistency in your identity. What are you actually trying to achieve with your Offense? That has a huge impact on a group like your OL in my opinion. There's just no flow to what you're trying to each week in week out. The best Offenses in the league have a clear identity. Then, you can actually use your identity to create misdirection, i.e use your tendencies against the Defense. McVay is the absolute master of this. 2 plays look the exact same, but are totally different in their intention. Bill O'Brien/Josh McDaniels made a career out of that staple Guard pull run that can also be a play action pass to Gronk (NE actually stole this from Manning - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaU0nbgAuw8) But, from an OL perspective, your identity is the exact same. It allows you to get comfortable with what you're trying to do week in week out. It just feels like some weeks we want to be a zone team with bootlegs, some weeks we want to be a power run team, some weeks we want to be a Shotgun team - that is so difficult to expect an OL, and frankly an Offensive unit, to achieve success in that environment. So how can we really judge Munchak? What I would say is Bolles is twice the player he was. For that alone Mike needs praise. As for the rest - Risner is going backwards, Cush is better but still not good enough, Glasgow (in my opinion) is breaking down physically and here is the hot take from me - Massie is actually playing good Football. Bears fans despised Bobby Massie. Despite his PFF grades, I think Massie has played well. PFF for example graded this Oweh sack against Massie. I am sorry, but if a guy is running an arc ELEVEN yards deep, I am happy with that. What is Massie supposed to do there? Anyway, my wider point is that I think Massie is playing well, especially in the run game, so you have to credit Mike for that massively because even an average league starter at RT is an improvement for Massie. Overall, I am happy with him. The view of our OL looks a lot different with a competent QB and playcaller if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 The results have been underwhelming all around, IMO, and that includes Munchak. To be honest, the sense I get around this team at the moment is that everyone is sort of going through the motions. Now, obviously it's hard to say with Munchak specifically whether that's true, but I do think the points about identity are valid. Is Munchak just a guy at the tail end of his career that's got an eye toward retirement? Is his coaching neutered by Shurmur's playcalling and lack of identity? Does he know Fangio is a lame duck? Or has he just lost his touch a bit? It's probably a combination of all four, but typically a coach as highly regarded as Munchak is still going to be above average without trying too hard, so I imagine it's largely dysfunction across the coaching staff that's trickling down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutler06 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 What's even more unnerving is he will get strong consideration for interim HC when (that right, when) Fangio get canned this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 15 minutes ago, Cutler06 said: What's even more unnerving is he will get strong consideration for interim HC when (that right, when) Fangio get canned this season. See that doesn’t bother me. He kept Tennessee competitive with Mariota and a crap roster; no one is going to confuse him for Tomlin/Paton/Reid/etc. but he can be a passable HC for 2/3 of a season. He knows what it takes to be a HC and I imagine he will be very much a CEO type if and when he replaces Fangio. I think if we lose tonight a change will be made. But it won’t be Fangio who gets canned, it’ll be Shurmur with Mike Shula taking over as play-caller. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizmo78 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: See that doesn’t bother me. He kept Tennessee competitive with Mariota and a crap roster; no one is going to confuse him for Tomlin/Paton/Reid/etc. but he can be a passable HC for 2/3 of a season. He knows what it takes to be a HC and I imagine he will be very much a CEO type if and when he replaces Fangio. I think if we lose tonight a change will be made. But it won’t be Fangio who gets canned, it’ll be Shurmur with Mike Shula taking over as play-caller. I have a hard time seeing any changes at all. If McMahon hasn't been fired yet, I don't think our FO is going to do anything until the end of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, grizmo78 said: I have a hard time seeing any changes at all. If McMahon hasn't been fired yet, I don't think our FO is going to do anything until the end of the year. Ellis has to pay them either way so you could be right. God this team needs a real owner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-mac Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 3 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: See that doesn’t bother me. He kept Tennessee competitive with Mariota and a crap roster; no one is going to confuse him for Tomlin/Paton/Reid/etc. but he can be a passable HC for 2/3 of a season. He knows what it takes to be a HC and I imagine he will be very much a CEO type if and when he replaces Fangio. I think if we lose tonight a change will be made. But it won’t be Fangio who gets canned, it’ll be Shurmur with Mike Shula taking over as play-caller. Munchak was out in Tennessee a full two years before Mariota was drafted. Are you thinking of Mike Mularkey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, paul-mac said: Munchak was out in Tennessee a full two years before Mariota was drafted. Are you thinking of Mike Mularkey? Yeah, you're right, must have been thinking Mularkey. Either way Munchak was still close to .500 if memory serves during his time there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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