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2022 Coaching Candidates


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10 hours ago, AKRNA said:

In what position?

As a head coach. As long as he doesn’t have the personnel control that he has in SF. I know I’m in the minority but I’m a fan of second time HCs. 
 

Bruce Arians, Andy Reid, Bill Belichick, Gary Kubiak, Pete Carroll, Tony Dongy, Tom Coughlin, hell even Mike shanahan. In fact you could argue that Mike kicked off the era of the second chance HC. Since he won the first one here, 17 of the last 23 Super Bowls were won by second stint Head Coaches 

Edited by broncos_fan _from _uk
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On 11/8/2021 at 6:55 AM, Broncofan said:

But yeah the only good scenario to consider Kyle Shanahan is if Paton has final say on personnel.   HC’s who have final personnel say haven’t worked out save for BB and even BB the GM isn’t nearly the same as BB the coach.  

This was the beginning of Mike Shanahan’s downfall here. After our second Super Bowl they named him vp of football operations and gave him carte blanche over personnel. That rarely works out. 

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I think you at least need a GM who will push back against a strong HC. We never had that here with Mike. The only FO person who would push back on Mike was, wait for it, Jack Elway, who was a head scout here. Once Jack retired Mike's drafting went to crap. 

Kyle doesn't have push back in SF as he hired Lynch (or, more accurately, asked Lynch to help him find a GM and then Lynch recommended himself, a la Buch/Cheney). Belichick may have had it when he had Pioli and Dimitrov but he doesn't now. Reid, Harbaugh, Tomlin and Carroll are powerful HCs but they have GMs who push back. The list goes on and on. 

It's one reason why I think Kyle would have worked here as Elway was a very strong GM. Elway's good drafting years came when he had a HC who offered respected advice. Early years GM Elway built a consensus amongst his subordinates, even with "yes man" Brian Xanders. Then we went to two Super Bowls - thanks in part to Elway's ability to recruit Peyton (who we don't get without Elway) - but then Elway took full control of everything, had no push back, and it was downhill from there. 

You just cannot give one person total, complete, unchecked control over everything. Teams keep doing it just like they keep hiring New England GMs who hire New England coaches who go on to destroy the team (Tennessee being the exception that proves the rule). 

All that said, if York screws up and fires Kyle, I'll personally drive out to the Bay Area and bring him here to be our head coach. However, barring a major scandal or the team just quitting on him, Kyle will coach out his contract. 

To what @Broncofansaid, I think Kyle's decision to make the big move for Lance is precisely what L.A. did with Goff/Stafford - despite what each gave up for their QB (paying Jimmy G big vs drafting Goff #1 overall) - they made a bold move to fix it by trading multiple pick to draft Lance/trading multiple picks for Stafford. The difference being Stafford is an established vet on a roster that's built to win now while Lance needs a redshirt year. I think it will ultimately work out in SF. 

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I get the control criticisms but people seem to be ignoring the Coaching and playcalling issues here.

He's got history now with alienating talented players for no apparent reason and he's done it again this year with Aiyuk being the latest example.

He's not Josh McDaniels arrogant, yet many who follow the team have made reference to his stubbornness with his playcalling this year and inability to get the most out of his players.

I'm not adverse to bringing him in under Paton, should he be fired (unlikely). It just bothers me when people talk about him like he's the second coming. He has definite red flags as a candidate.

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1 hour ago, lomaxgrUK said:

I get the control criticisms but people seem to be ignoring the Coaching and playcalling issues here.

He's got history now with alienating talented players for no apparent reason and he's done it again this year with Aiyuk being the latest example.

He's not Josh McDaniels arrogant, yet many who follow the team have made reference to his stubbornness with his playcalling this year and inability to get the most out of his players.

I'm not adverse to bringing him in under Paton, should he be fired (unlikely). It just bothers me when people talk about him like he's the second coming. He has definite red flags as a candidate.

Those are all fair critiques. I think any HC candidate will have red flags, especially those who have been fired from the job. It would be imperative that Paton et al check to see if/what he learned from the experience and what he would do differently the next chance

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3 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

I get the control criticisms but people seem to be ignoring the Coaching and playcalling issues here.

He's got history now with alienating talented players for no apparent reason and he's done it again this year with Aiyuk being the latest example.

He's not Josh McDaniels arrogant, yet many who follow the team have made reference to his stubbornness with his playcalling this year and inability to get the most out of his players.

I'm not adverse to bringing him in under Paton, should he be fired (unlikely). It just bothers me when people talk about him like he's the second coming. He has definite red flags as a candidate.

The biggest issue IMO with his coaching ability is his inability to adjust in-game.   He schemes up an AMAZINGLY diverse O.  He makes great pre-game preps.   But if a team negates his plans, or they adjust back - he doesn't respond.   We saw it in the IND SNF game - up 9-0, driving, and IND D stiffened up, and then they had ZERO ability to adjust.     

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him with Paton in full control - but only if he's learned from his mistakes.  He's not infallible.  He has 2 major flaws in his CV - personnel evaluation & deployment is his big nemesis, but the in-game adjustment is a massive 2nd one.   Now, there are very few perfect HC candidates - but the best ones also are self-aware.   They strive to improve.   One of my biggest complaints with Fangio/Shurmur - they've shown zero adaptability.   Their flaws are more extreme, but the lack of adaptability is what dooms them IMO.   I'd want to see if Kyle Shanahan has learned from the SF experience; because man, there are some very clear take-home messages we can see.   The Q is whether he can see it.

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There is no perfect coach - they all have flaws. People were going on about how good Kellan Moore has been for the Cowboys - yet a Denver D that has been manhandled repeatedly over the past month effectively held his offence scoreless last Sunday.

I suppose this reminds me of a quote from the film 'Draft Day' when Costner's character says that every QB has flaws and it is a question of whether you can live with them or not - it is the same when it comes to HCs - can you live with the flaws or not. No matter who the Broncos pick it will be a question of do the positives outweigh the negative and result in a HC capable of doing the job.

I wanted Kyle Shanahan when Ellis forced Elway into getting Joseph. I think Kyle would actually have been in a better position here than in SF because elway would ultimately been top dog and I think that the Broncos potentially could have taken Mahomes or Watson in the 2017 draft if Shanahan had been here. 

Now - the question is could the Shanahan learn from his weaknesses - and I think that having Mike as his sounding board improves the possibility that, unlike many other coaches, he could actually do that.

Saying all of this - I don't think Shanahan gets fired so I don't expect him to be a potential candidate.

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On 11/9/2021 at 8:38 PM, AnAngryAmerican said:

I think you at least need a GM who will push back against a strong HC. We never had that here with Mike. The only FO person who would push back on Mike was, wait for it, Jack Elway, who was a head scout here. Once Jack retired Mike's drafting went to crap. 

I think you are spot-on with this one. In fact Jack Elway wanted the Broncos to draft Drew Brees in 2001 - and apparently had convinced Shanahan to do it - then he died a week or so before the draft and Shanahan went back to his plan A and drafted Willie Middlebrooks instead.

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On 11/9/2021 at 3:38 PM, AnAngryAmerican said:

I think you at least need a GM who will push back against a strong HC. We never had that here with Mike. The only FO person who would push back on Mike was, wait for it, Jack Elway, who was a head scout here. Once Jack retired Mike's drafting went to crap. 

It was going to crap before Jack died.

In 1999, they got Al Wilson, Olandis Gary, and TE Desmond Clark, but there was a whole lot of bad (Chris Watson, Travis McGriff, Lennie Friedman, Darwin Brown, & Chad Plummer). Then, in 2000, you had more crap with Deltha O'Neal (over Julian Peterson), Ian Gold, Chris Cole, Jerry Johnson, Muneer Moore, and Jarious Jackson.

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36 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

It was going to crap before Jack died.

In 1999, they got Al Wilson, Olandis Gary, and TE Desmond Clark, but there was a whole lot of bad (Chris Watson, Travis McGriff, Lennie Friedman, Darwin Brown, & Chad Plummer). Then, in 2000, you had more crap with Deltha O'Neal (over Julian Peterson), Ian Gold, Chris Cole, Jerry Johnson, Muneer Moore, and Jarious Jackson.

There's some names. What a throwback. 

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1 hour ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

It was going to crap before Jack died.

In 1999, they got Al Wilson, Olandis Gary, and TE Desmond Clark, but there was a whole lot of bad (Chris Watson, Travis McGriff, Lennie Friedman, Darwin Brown, & Chad Plummer). Then, in 2000, you had more crap with Deltha O'Neal (over Julian Peterson), Ian Gold, Chris Cole, Jerry Johnson, Muneer Moore, and Jarious Jackson.

What is your problem with Travis McGriff? 

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My beat reporter friend told me somethings along the lines of what Allbright has been saying that, should a coaching change me made after the season, he expects Paton to go for a veteran with prior HCing experience to be a CEO type and pair him with a Shanahan tree OC. He added the caveat that a new owner could change that, but it’s what things look like right now knowing what he knows about how Paton operates.

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