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2022 Coaching Candidates


BroncoBruin

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2 hours ago, broncos67 said:

I forgot you were in the room, but thankful that you were to shed some light on Quinn's coaching bona fides for us!

Such a good insult, did everyone clap? Lol you realize this is a forum, right? Like, debating these subjects is the entire point of this website. Unless you're actually employed by the organization in a professional capacity, the "room" isn't yours to run any more than it is mine, so maybe try not to be quite so far up your own a**. 

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Once again I say, way way WAY too much talk about X’s and O’s and units’ success as coordinators in this thread. Sean Payton coached an absolutely average offence in NYG, then Cowboys fans laughed hysterically when he got the Saints job. Andy Reid had a couple seasons as Favre’s QB coach, but no coordinator experience (even at the collegiate ranks) before getting the Eagles job. Belichick’s defence in NYJ after failing in CLE was decent, but far from elite. Mike Tomlin had one year as a DC. These are 4 of the best coaches of this generation, and there’s no way you would’ve looked at their on-field résumés before being hired and predicted what they’d become. It’s about so much more than what schemes they run, what personnel they prefer. Unfortunately for guys like us who love to **** talk about football, it’s mostly about things we can’t see. 

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41 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Once again I say, way way WAY too much talk about X’s and O’s and units’ success as coordinators in this thread. Sean Payton coached an absolutely average offence in NYG, then Cowboys fans laughed hysterically when he got the Saints job. Andy Reid had a couple seasons as Favre’s QB coach, but no coordinator experience (even at the collegiate ranks) before getting the Eagles job. Belichick’s defence in NYJ after failing in CLE was decent, but far from elite. Mike Tomlin had one year as a DC. These are 4 of the best coaches of this generation, and there’s no way you would’ve looked at their on-field résumés before being hired and predicted what they’d become. It’s about so much more than what schemes they run, what personnel they prefer. Unfortunately for guys like us who love to **** talk about football, it’s mostly about things we can’t see. 

For HC's - I'd add ability to adapt, adjust, and game management / playcalling (not X & O's, but aggression/conservativism when it's called for).   And the ability to get units / team on same page (communication, leadership style).   And yes, a ton of it is intangible to us.    Again, why I don't have a problem with Quinn - but the OC he brings is a definite plus/minus in the argument (which we won't know unless he's hired).

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2 hours ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Once again I say, way way WAY too much talk about X’s and O’s and units’ success as coordinators in this thread. Sean Payton coached an absolutely average offence in NYG, then Cowboys fans laughed hysterically when he got the Saints job. Andy Reid had a couple seasons as Favre’s QB coach, but no coordinator experience (even at the collegiate ranks) before getting the Eagles job. Belichick’s defence in NYJ after failing in CLE was decent, but far from elite. Mike Tomlin had one year as a DC. These are 4 of the best coaches of this generation, and there’s no way you would’ve looked at their on-field résumés before being hired and predicted what they’d become. It’s about so much more than what schemes they run, what personnel they prefer. Unfortunately for guys like us who love to **** talk about football, it’s mostly about things we can’t see. 

I disagree with this.  I understand what you’re saying, but in the context of a football forum I think any and all information is relevant to talk about when hiring.  Really isn’t any different than talking about draft prospects or free agent players.  

We can only evaluate it based off of what we see or can find statistically.  No way to know what a coach or player is about behind closed doors.  Organization, work ethic, personality, type of person they are.

I also think there are things that can be drawn from some of these details.  For example, I think great coaches are able to maximize talent.  Taking an above average team and making them good or a good team and making them great. 

In Quinn’s case after exploring the last 9 years of his time in the NFL, I think his ability to maximize talent is something to question.  As DC in Seattle that unit was the best in the NFL before and after he arrived, that’s not his fault it was a hell of a collection of talent.  I think it’s reasonable to question the job he did in Atlanta and how big an impact Kyle Shanahan had.  If we are being realistic the only highlight of his time in Atlanta was the SB run which was fueled by the #1 scoring offense in football.  Seeing what Shanahan is doing now I don’t think it’s at all out of the question to think Shanahan was more important to the Falcons than Quinn was.  

I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that in the last 9 years the only year Dan Quinn did more with less was the past season as DC of the Cowboys.  Keep in mind, even with the SB run Quinn had a .500 record in Atlanta.  

As far as the other candidates I question everything.  Neither are really OC’s and are under offensive minded HCs with good/great QB play.   

At the end of the day I’m fine with Quinn if he’s the hire.  I don’t think he’s the homerun he’s somewhat been made out to be.  He’s the safe pick because of his former HC experience and that may be exactly what this team needs right now.  

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2 hours ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Once again I say, way way WAY too much talk about X’s and O’s and units’ success as coordinators in this thread. Sean Payton coached an absolutely average offence in NYG, then Cowboys fans laughed hysterically when he got the Saints job. Andy Reid had a couple seasons as Favre’s QB coach, but no coordinator experience (even at the collegiate ranks) before getting the Eagles job. Belichick’s defence in NYJ after failing in CLE was decent, but far from elite. Mike Tomlin had one year as a DC. These are 4 of the best coaches of this generation, and there’s no way you would’ve looked at their on-field résumés before being hired and predicted what they’d become. It’s about so much more than what schemes they run, what personnel they prefer. Unfortunately for guys like us who love to **** talk about football, it’s mostly about things we can’t see. 

Truth. All I'm trying to point out is that with Quinn, we do have some prior background in terms of being a head coach. And looking at his 4 seasons in Atlanta after Shanahan left, he yielded average to below average results. Which indicates to me that without Kyle's 33 ppg offense, he probably doesn't coach that team to the SB. Yes, Belichick had a similar record in Cleveland before going on to become who we know him as today. Could Quinn do the same thing? Sure. Do I think he would be an upgrade over Fangio? Yes. With the talent on this team (Assuming we can address the QB position) I think a guy like Quinn gets us back into 1st round playoff contention at the least. But I also think that he has been pretty heavily overrated by several people in here, and that's fine. People can have their opinions. But barring him bringing in some sort of wunderkind to run his offense, I fear several of you are going to end up disappointed with the results. If we hire him, I guess we'll find out.

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27 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

DANG DUDE!!! You better go get some inside information. You cannot come in here like that.  Shhhsh. 

Do your farts come with links or is that insider info ??  (Please say there aren't any links, PLEASE)

Edited by Cutler06
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3 hours ago, germ-x said:

I disagree with this.  I understand what you’re saying, but in the context of a football forum I think any and all information is relevant to talk about when hiring.  Really isn’t any different than talking about draft prospects or free agent players.  

We can only evaluate it based off of what we see or can find statistically.  No way to know what a coach or player is about behind closed doors.  Organization, work ethic, personality, type of person they are.

I also think there are things that can be drawn from some of these details.  For example, I think great coaches are able to maximize talent.  Taking an above average team and making them good or a good team and making them great. 

In Quinn’s case after exploring the last 9 years of his time in the NFL, I think his ability to maximize talent is something to question.  As DC in Seattle that unit was the best in the NFL before and after he arrived, that’s not his fault it was a hell of a collection of talent.  I think it’s reasonable to question the job he did in Atlanta and how big an impact Kyle Shanahan had.  If we are being realistic the only highlight of his time in Atlanta was the SB run which was fueled by the #1 scoring offense in football.  Seeing what Shanahan is doing now I don’t think it’s at all out of the question to think Shanahan was more important to the Falcons than Quinn was.  

I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that in the last 9 years the only year Dan Quinn did more with less was the past season as DC of the Cowboys.  Keep in mind, even with the SB run Quinn had a .500 record in Atlanta.  

As far as the other candidates I question everything.  Neither are really OC’s and are under offensive minded HCs with good/great QB play.   

At the end of the day I’m fine with Quinn if he’s the hire.  I don’t think he’s the homerun he’s somewhat been made out to be.  He’s the safe pick because of his former HC experience and that may be exactly what this team needs right now.  

Oh for sure, I’m not saying let’s *stop* ****-talking about what we see, fill yer boots. My point is that what we see, and what we can have any kind of opinion on, is a minute portion of what will determine who gets hired, and how good of a job they’ll do. There are great X’s and O’s guys who are bad head coaches (hell, we’ve had two of them here in the last 15 years), and there are guys who are certainly not known as master schemers that are fantastic head coaches (Tomlin and Harbaugh come to mind). The keys are to know your strengths, delegate to guys around you who are better at certain things, continue to learn, continue to adapt, foster an environment of collaboration, etc etc….how the hell do we know which coach is gonna do that best??

Quinn, sure, we’ve got some track record as a head guy that we can judge. But we don’t know what was going on behind the scenes. We don’t know what he learned from that experience (it could be an incredible amount!). And the guys who haven’t been HC’s yet, I go to my own personal experience. I’m the #2 at the place I work. Love my boss, think she does a really good job. But there are things she asks me to do that I don’t think are best practices, or things I’d do differently in general if I had her job. So while you can still evaluate the job I’m doing personally, there’s a larger context that you’ve gotta put that in which could really change your perception from the outside.

Guys going on and on about how KOC has run such a magnificent offence and how that should qualify him to be our hire, after having just watched three seasons of strategic genius not translate into elite team building…I just have no time for it. (Not to slander KOC at all, he might be the right guy. I obviously don’t know. Haha) Job interviews are not just ‘please submit your list of accomplishments and we’ll pick the best piece of paper’, you know?

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49 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Oh for sure, I’m not saying let’s *stop* ****-talking about what we see, fill yer boots. My point is that what we see, and what we can have any kind of opinion on, is a minute portion of what will determine who gets hired, and how good of a job they’ll do. There are great X’s and O’s guys who are bad head coaches (hell, we’ve had two of them here in the last 15 years), and there are guys who are certainly not known as master schemers that are fantastic head coaches (Tomlin and Harbaugh come to mind). The keys are to know your strengths, delegate to guys around you who are better at certain things, continue to learn, continue to adapt, foster an environment of collaboration, etc etc….how the hell do we know which coach is gonna do that best??

Quinn, sure, we’ve got some track record as a head guy that we can judge. But we don’t know what was going on behind the scenes. We don’t know what he learned from that experience (it could be an incredible amount!). And the guys who haven’t been HC’s yet, I go to my own personal experience. I’m the #2 at the place I work. Love my boss, think she does a really good job. But there are things she asks me to do that I don’t think are best practices, or things I’d do differently in general if I had her job. So while you can still evaluate the job I’m doing personally, there’s a larger context that you’ve gotta put that in which could really change your perception from the outside.

Guys going on and on about how KOC has run such a magnificent offence and how that should qualify him to be our hire, after having just watched three seasons of strategic genius not translate into elite team building…I just have no time for it. (Not to slander KOC at all, he might be the right guy. I obviously don’t know. Haha) Job interviews are not just ‘please submit your list of accomplishments and we’ll pick the best piece of paper’, you know?

Agree with all of this.  That’s the tough part with Hackett/KOC.  Even in their current roles they aren’t really calling the shots.  To have an opinion on if they’ll be good is incredibly difficult.

Hahaha, I am the opposite though.  I am so sick of hearing how great Dan Quinn is.  He has a .500 record as an HC and he’s turned 1 defense around in 9 years. Not saying he isn’t a good guy from all reports he’s highly respected around the league, but my god it’s as if Broncos media and most of its fans think we’re getting Joe Gibbs in his prime. 

I don’t think he’s a bad hire at all and he could very well be a terrific coach, but aside from 1 season with Kyle Shanahan orchestrating the offense he’s been mediocre.  

Edited by germ-x
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6 hours ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Once again I say, way way WAY too much talk about X’s and O’s and units’ success as coordinators in this thread. Sean Payton coached an absolutely average offence in NYG, then Cowboys fans laughed hysterically when he got the Saints job. Andy Reid had a couple seasons as Favre’s QB coach, but no coordinator experience (even at the collegiate ranks) before getting the Eagles job. Belichick’s defence in NYJ after failing in CLE was decent, but far from elite. Mike Tomlin had one year as a DC. These are 4 of the best coaches of this generation, and there’s no way you would’ve looked at their on-field résumés before being hired and predicted what they’d become. It’s about so much more than what schemes they run, what personnel they prefer. Unfortunately for guys like us who love to **** talk about football, it’s mostly about things we can’t see. 

Agree, additionally there is plenty of revisionist editorializing about why certain coaches are successful and then attempts to reverse engineer those decisions separate of other variables. 
 

We’ve beaten it to death but, my hypothesis is that, the one thing that correlates most closely with coaching performance is having sustained B+ or better QB play.  Those 4 guys are amongst the best of their generation but also had prime Brees/ Mahomes/ Brady/ Roethlisberger. 

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4 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

Agree, additionally there is plenty of revisionist editorializing about why certain coaches are successful and then attempts to reverse engineer those decisions separate of other variables. 
 

We’ve beaten it to death but, my hypothesis is that, the one thing that correlates most closely with coaching performance is having sustained B+ or better QB play.  Those 4 guys are amongst the best of their generation but also had prime Brees/ Mahomes/ Brady/ Roethlisberger. 

Agreed.  Very hard to sustain success in this league without a QB (interestingly, Quinn had one in Atlanta).  I’ve said this about Joseph/Fangio.  They were handicapped without a QB any coach we hire now will be as well if the best QB this team can get is a Trevor Siemian type.

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11 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

Agree, additionally there is plenty of revisionist editorializing about why certain coaches are successful and then attempts to reverse engineer those decisions separate of other variables. 
 

We’ve beaten it to death but, my hypothesis is that, the one thing that correlates most closely with coaching performance is having sustained B+ or better QB play.  Those 4 guys are amongst the best of their generation but also had prime Brees/ Mahomes/ Brady/ Roethlisberger. 

What about John Harbaugh?  He was a special teams coach that nobody had heard of when he got the B-more gig.  His best QB during his tenure has been Lamar, and I am not sure if Lamar's style (as much as I freaking love watching him play) is good enough to even go deep into the playoffs. 

I guess Flacco has his moment, but he also had to have one fluke and lucky play against us to get a chance at the Super Bowl.  It seems like Harbaugh has kind of taken nothing and turned it into something; at the least he has always kept the Ravens competitive even this year when it seemed like the injury bug got them good this year.  

But Harbaugh is kind of an anomaly, and I whole heartedly agree that we have to get a marquee QB, it's the best way to have success in the league.  And we should this better than any fanbase.  For half of my life of cheering for the Broncos, Elway was always at the helm, and I never had to worry about the quarterback play for the Broncos, and then five years with Manning just solidifies that you have to have an elite QB.  If you have a great QB everything else will follow.  

So that is why if Rogers wants to come to Denver, go get him for a few years.  And if you have to trade Lock, Fant, Jeudy, and some draft picks, then do it (and if you are trading Jeudy I am also asking for Adams in the trade).  Also, if Rogers is Plan A, then I am drafting a QB in each draft in the 3-4th rounds who can be developed like he was behind Favre.  So that when he retires, you have a QB to step in without any hiccups.  

Edited by jsthomp2007
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2 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said:

What about John Harbaugh?  He was a special teams coach that nobody had heard of when he got the B-more gig.  His best QB during his tenure has been Lamar, and I am not sure if Lamar's style (as much as I freaking love watching him play) is good enough to even go deep into the playoffs. 

I guess Flacco has his moment, but he also had to have one fluke and lucky play against us to get a chance at the Super Bowl.  It seems like Harbaugh has kind of taken nothing and turned it into something; at the least he has always kept the Ravens competitive even this year when it seemed like the injury bug got them good this year.  


Lamar has been B+ or better without a doubt.  Flacco’s last five years have thrown people off the scent, there were those half-joking “is Flacco elite” conversations for the majority of his prime. He certainly wasn’t a top 5 QB but he was definitely between 7-14 for that stretch.

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