Week 8 GDT - Chicago Bears vs San Francisco 49ers

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, Forge said:

Agree with the BOB / Shanny correlation, which is why I've also said that Shanny will likely be much better at his second stop when he's not running amok lol. 

Nagy I don't like as a playcaller just in general. Regardless of the talent he has, I just don't like some of the weird playcalls and formations and stuff he tries. Feels like he is trying to outsmart the room and trying too hard. He may actually be a very good head coach though. Hard to say. 

Shanny plays HC, OC and GM at the same time....IN HIS FIRST HEAD COACHING JOB! That's insane. You have seen BB kind of do that but with running the defense but that was with him having the GOAT at QB and having done this for decades. If Shanny just gives over some control, he will be fine. It's going to be a moot point if Lance hits as the team will be fine regardless but he just does wayyyy too much. How many head coaches before him handpicked their GM? Did not happen much. 

[Forge]

1 minute ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

I missed where you said just the Falcons. Regardless, that was way later in Reeves's career after being a head coach for a very long time already. Kyle's story as a head coach is far from over, whether it's with San Francisco or somewhere else. And he's be out of work in 5 minutes if he leaves. 

BTW just like Crocker what do you want? Kyle fired right now yes or no? 

I see no reason to move on from him at the current point in time. Especially before seeing what happens with Lance and Shanny. I do think that the dichotomy between his reputation and performance is a fascinating discussion though. The optics of guys like BOB and Nagy is so bad, and Shanny's is so good across the entire landscape, and I think it's super interesting when you consider what has actually happened. 

[GW21]

While I acknowledge that Shanny has made some poor decisions this year, I really don’t understand the desire to move on. His game plan against Arizona was infuriating to me, his calls against Indy were as well. I think the locker room he’s put together and the chemistry this team seems to have is invaluable. There have definitely been some personnel decisions I would question like letting Buck walk in favor of Armstead, Pettis, Joe Williams etc, but there is no way I would axe Shanny before trying to restructure the personnel power balance. It’s funny because I read something recently where Lynch mentioned they tried to get better value on players in the past by drafting talented players with some injury issues, yet they just drafted Kinlaw last year. I don’t know what the answer is, but I’m far from ready to move on from Shanahan. I think we’ll get back to running the ball, Shanny will find his groove, and we’ll start winning football games again. I’d be willing to bet that Shanahan would be the head coach of the Broncos within hours of becoming available/allowed to be hired.

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 minutes ago, GW21 said:

While I acknowledge that Shanny has made some poor decisions this year, I really don’t understand the desire to move on. His game plan against Arizona was infuriating to me, his calls against Indy were as well. I think the locker room he’s put together and the chemistry this team seems to have is invaluable. There have definitely been some personnel decisions I would question like letting Buck walk in favor of Armstead, Pettis, Joe Williams etc, but there is no way I would axe Shanny before trying to restructure the personnel power balance. It’s funny because I read something recently where Lynch mentioned they tried to get better value on players in the past by drafting talented players with some injury issues, yet they just drafted Kinlaw last year. I don’t know what the answer is, but I’m far from ready to move on from Shanahan. I think we’ll get back to running the ball, Shanny will find his groove, and we’ll start winning football games again. I’d be willing to bet that Shanahan would be the head coach of the Broncos within hours of becoming available/allowed to be hired.

Well, you don't need to axe Shanny, but you can take some control away from him in terms of making personnel decisions. His contract may read otherwise and that could be an issue but when you run the ENTIRE show, you will get majority of the blame...Even on non-coaching decisions. 

[rudyZ]

1 minute ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Shanny plays HC, OC and GM at the same time....IN HIS FIRST HEAD COACHING JOB! That's insane. You have seen BB kind of do that but with running the defense but that was with him having the GOAT at QB and having done this for decades. If Shanny just gives over some control, he will be fine. It's going to be a moot point if Lance hits as the team will be fine regardless but he just does wayyyy too much. How many head coaches before him handpicked their GM? Did not happen much. 

To be fair, every HC is in large part the GM of his team, whether he actually seems to have that power or not. The GM can sign and draft players all he wants, but if it's the HC that decides who plays and how much, then he's shaping his roster one way or another. So either he and the GM clash, or the GM accomodates him, or the HC gets fired, or the house is cleaned completely. So I wouldn't put GM has a control issue for any HC, because it's a de facto part of the job. 

It's the OC thing that draws my attention. Are we missing Mike Lafleur? More importantly, does Kyle miss Lafleur? Was he a much bigger piece of the puzzle than we thought? We lost Saleh, and we missed a step, but Ryans, to me, actually looks like a very good coach. He's offered some great coaching performances so far. I'm thinking Undlin is not very good, and that shows. There was one year, we weren't satisfied with the secondary, we got a new coach, and I think the following year was 2019, wasn't it? Then we lost our secondary coach, brought in Undlin, and our DBs aren't living up to their potential again. Position coaches are very important. The staff as a whole is very important. And we got a pretty significant hit in that department last offseason, and perhaps the team hasn't done enough to compensate. Is Kyle perhaps a bit in over his head? It sure looks so. As a boss and a leader myself (stop laughing), I know what it's like to lose people and trying to do more work to compensate. It can only be temporary, before it starts hurting the organization as a whole. So the quick fix is not quick. We need to hire more/better coaches next offseason.

I know some people would want to fire Kyle already, and think he was overhyped and overrated. I disagree. I think he's the real deal, but he's learning. For 20 years, Andy Reid was that very good coach who couldn't get over the hump (although with a bit more success, at least making the playoffs consistently). Maybe he needed a generational talent at QB, but now he's a lock for the hall of fame. I think he learned how to be more aggressive and assertive in his decisions. Kyle often just plays not to lose, and the day he learns to be more assertive and start dictating what he wants to do, instead of setting up plays for later and reacting to what defenses are doing, I think we'll be a perennial contender. I'm sure he can do it here. We shouldn't give up on a smart, well-liked head coach before he reaches the maturity he needs to be the winner he can become. Right now, he's analytical. He observes way too much. He has a passive approach to game-planning. One day, he might realize he needs to attack, that he doesn't need the first quarter to set up plays for the fourth quarter. He needs to set up plays in the fourth quarter of the previous week, in order to attack opponents right out of the gate the next week. I believe in this team and this staff (the scouting department might need a fix right now, though). Every coach has to fear for his job before he becomes a better version of himself. Look at John Harbaugh. He was on the hot seat a couple of times during his coaching career. But every time he's come out of it thriving. Kyle needs this kind of pressure ti reach the next level of his evolution.

Yes, I'm naive. Who cares, it's only football.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

6 minutes ago, Forge said:

I see no reason to move on from him at the current point in time. Especially before seeing what happens with Lance and Shanny. I do think that the dichotomy between his reputation and performance is a fascinating discussion though. The optics of guys like BOB and Nagy is so bad, and Shanny's is so good across the entire landscape, and I think it's super interesting when you consider what has actually happened. 

Ok. Well, I don't know what Crock's goal was with how he carefully worded his questionaire (naming dropping Trubisky and Hoyer for Nagy/O'Brien, but not Jimmy for Shanahan as if Jimmy isn't seen in a similar light now). But whatever. He's started to fall inline recently with a lot of other people that simply have an agenda anyway. A little too much thinly veiled passive-aggressive remarks from someone with a platform for my taste. At least I was momentarily amused by it in the beginning. 

As for the discussion for reputation and performance...I mean I guess I can see why it's interesting that Shanahan isn't as hated as the other two were by this point, but I guess that's what happens when you make a Super Bowl in addition to have a season where you roster is nuked by injuries. You get some leeway which is finally starting to run out. Some people in many facets of life just still have better perceptions compared to others regardless of the results. Keanu Reeves isn't the best actor, but the internet wants him cast in everything. Back in the football arena, Marion Campbell somehow got three head coaching gigs, twice with the same team despite never even getting to the playoffs, with a winning percentage of 30%. That's life. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

24 minutes ago, rudyZ said:

I know some people would want to fire Kyle already, and think he was overhyped and overrated. I disagree. I think he's the real deal, but he's learning. For 20 years, Andy Reid was that very good coach who couldn't get over the hump (although with a bit more success, at least making the playoffs consistently). Maybe he needed a generational talent at QB, but now he's a lock for the hall of fame. I think he learned how to be more aggressive and assertive in his decisions. Kyle often just plays not to lose, and the day he learns to be more assertive and start dictating what he wants to do, instead of setting up plays for later and reacting to what defenses are doing, I think we'll be a perennial contender. I'm sure he can do it here. We shouldn't give up on a smart, well-liked head coach before he reaches the maturity he needs to be the winner he can become. Right now, he's analytical. He observes way too much. He has a passive approach to game-planning. One day, he might realize he needs to attack, that he doesn't need the first quarter to set up plays for the fourth quarter. He needs to set up plays in the fourth quarter of the previous week, in order to attack opponents right out of the gate the next week. I believe in this team and this staff (the scouting department might need a fix right now, though). Every coach has to fear for his job before he becomes a better version of himself. Look at John Harbaugh. He was on the hot seat a couple of times during his coaching career. But every time he's come out of it thriving. Kyle needs this kind of pressure ti reach the next level of his evolution.

Yes, I'm naive. Who cares, it's only football.

There was a time when Chuck Knox and Don Coryell were coaching circles around Marv Levy for many years when he was head coach of the Chiefs. Next thing you know Marv is a first ballot HOFer, and the others are still waiting to get in decades later. Things can change at the drop of a hat. At the very least people need to stop with the Mike Singletary/Kyle Shanahan record comparisons. I can only take so much heehaw. But yeah, it's only football.

Edited October 29, 2021 by TecmoSuperJoe

[49ersfan]

1 hour ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

I like how making it to the Super Bowl is a pretty big caveat that's conveniently ignored. Was Marvin Lewis with the Bengals a better coach than Doug Pederson with the Eagles? Was Wayne Fonts a better coach with the Lions than Sam Wyche was with the Bengals? Jim Mora with the Saints over Jeff Fisher with the Titans? Where is Crocker going with this? If Shanahan was given the boot within five minutes his phone would be blowin up like a meth lab, and he'd have another job by sundown. Bill O'Brien is still unemployed and I'm guessing Matt Nagy won't get another shot anytime soon. 

What's the opponent winning %? We play in the toughest division in the NFL. The Texans played in one of the worst and the Bears had 2 free games against the Lions each year 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by 49ersfan

[NcFinest9erFan]

Does anyone think Moore can play RT.....in 2022?

[NcFinest9erFan]

 

[J-ALL-DAY]

13 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

 

Sucks if Dee can't go but Willis can be activated for the game. 

over/under 175 rushing yards by the Bears?

[Forge]

9 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Sucks if Dee can't go but Willis can be activated for the game. 

over/under 175 rushing yards by the Bears?

I'm starting Herbert, so I'm hoping for the over! 

[Forge]

2 hours ago, rudyZ said:

To be fair, every HC is in large part the GM of his team, whether he actually seems to have that power or not. The GM can sign and draft players all he wants, but if it's the HC that decides who plays and how much, then he's shaping his roster one way or another. So either he and the GM clash, or the GM accomodates him, or the HC gets fired, or the house is cleaned completely. So I wouldn't put GM has a control issue for any HC, because it's a de facto part of the job. 

 

*Jim Harbaugh's handling of AJ Jenkins has entered the chat* 

[Forge]

That's a lot. I haven't watched enough of the Bears to see how I would distribute blame. The Cleveland game was considerably slanted against the offensive line, but since then I think it's been better and maybe more of these are falling on Fields' shoulder. I'm excited to watch an entire game and really get to see how it falls. This was an issue in college, as multiple people pointed out, but I didn't think that it would rear it's ugly head this badly at the next level...especially when the Bears aren't even using an offense tailored to Fields' strength (which would require even more time to hold the ball; I think the Bears have been more quick hitting for stretches). 

[Forge]

I swear it feels like Lombardi is writing a damn eulogy for Jimmy G lately lol