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Staff Overhaul for 2022 - Discuss, debate, deliberate..... uh, d-speculate...


Sugashane

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OK. I’m going to try to throw together some potential GM/HC/OC/DC pairings that actually have ties together. Some won’t be big names but there are logical reasons behind them. I may merge this with the Fire Pace and Nagy thread but this is more about potential hires and groups rather than just pointing out the innumerable flaws we see. This will also be a long post, so I'd rather generate some discussion here rather than be the last post on one page of another thread. lol 

These are my top groups, and I will list my top group last, though it will be more of my personal favorite guys to pair together. If you have other groups, add you own. If you want to add a President of Football Operations to get rid of Ted, add him. The groupings will be assuming Ted stays and Pace and Nagy are booted on the glorious day that I hold above Christmas and the 4th of July combined this year - BLACK FRIDAY. 

 

 My last one will be my Mega Happy Ending choosing, which Sweaty Teddy goes to become the High Emperor of Arlington Heights Stadium or whatever.

 

Looks like he is in an Andrew Whitworth look alike contest... and winning

HC – Daboll – His work with Allen has been spectacular, he should have been the HC for us THIS year, and if so Pace likely saves his job. Daboll is a master of setting up mismatches and has been the biggest reason Allen is now a routine MVP candidate.

GM – Dan Morgan – Currently with CAR as the Assistant GM so he is getting more hands on experience than most new GMs have for their role. Hard nosed as a player and if you look at what he did as the Director of Pro Personnel and Player Personnel in BUF and SEA then it is clear to see he likes players who have the same mentality.

OC – Bobby Johnson – Currently the OL coach for the Bills and was the assistant OL coach for the Colts in 2018. Daboll has a lot of movement and tries to create mismatches, so when defenders have to rotate to cover them the OL has to adjust as well. They also are used to having a mobile QB since Allen scrambles and does so much on the ground, so he will get to train the (hopefully revamped) OL his way.

Dorsey stays in BUF because he gets to promote to OC there with Allen and gets to call plays.

DC – Jerod Mayo – Daboll coached in NE from 2013 to 2016, so there were several years he was able to spend a lot of time with Mayo, especially as he had to try to get his TEs to block him in practice. He knows how smart he is and his leadership, and knows he was Bill’s on-field coach out there.

 

Played with a broken shin, will break your shins if you run the wrong route.

HC – Leftwich – IDGAF about Tom Brady being labeled as the one carrying the offense. Leftwich has been instrumental in Brady’s resurrection and had Jameis Winston throw for 33 TDs and over 5000 yards. Yes, he threw 30 INTs but the big difference is that Winston has zero football IQ and has never really been someone to take care of the ball. Brady can and always has been stellar at it, and Fields is closer to Brady mentally than he is to Winston.

GM - Shelton Quarles or Quentin Harris – Shelton has been the Director of Pro Personnel since 2014, and has been with Tampa since 2007. He has seen the Bucs go up and down and seen how they tried to stack the table even with the GOAT at QB. Hopefully he would see the need to keep adding Impact players around Fields to give him the best chance to succeed.

Harris has spent time with Leftwich and Daboll when they were in AZ, he has risen from scout to Director of Pro Scouting, to Vice President of Player Personnel in AZ. He has seen the development of Murray and how aggressive they have been in getting talent around the young QB. Fields would be happy to have that.

OC – Joe Gilbert – He has been the OL coach for Arians in AZ and TB, clearly he has the respect of Arians and Leftwich. Since Leftwich is calling the plays and developing the QB, Joe gets a hefty pay raise to develop Jenkins and Borom, and hopefully at least 2 new IOL.

DC – Larry Foote – He has been a LB coach for AZ and TB and was one of the damn good LBs for PIT. He, like Mayo, brings leadership and toughness to the DC position.

 

Full of Thanksgiving f***s

HC- McDaniels – He’s a dbag, DEN was a mess, he did poorly in STL, yeah. He also has been key to developing Brady, made Garroppolo, Brissett, and Cassell all look like starter material, and now has had Jones playing pretty damn well. When they had Newton he took the offense in a totally new direction since the playbook was way too complicated for Newton, and featured QB running as a cornerstone of the offense. He knows offense, he understands the need for talent and blocking (was lucky enough to have Scar there for years), and he is rarely ever outcoached. He made Kyle Orton play like a starter, never got to take the time to develop Tebow (hopefully that failure checked his ego a bit) and unlike in DEN he has no real personnel control. He gets to be the big man on the sidelines and get Fields to be a franchise QB. He can add the running dimension that Cam had while also having a QB smart enough to run the offense.

Is he a jerk? Yeah, but I bet we win with him. I’d rather win with him than lose with a choir boy running the show.  And he dropped the f bomb a number of times on live TV, so that's entertainment too.

GM – Eliot Wolf – He is a consultant for NE but I am not scared of his connection to NE, he was in the running to take over GB for Thompson after being part of them from 2004 to 2017. He then was the Assistant GM for two years in the rapid rebuild of CLE. Clearly he has something and has seen a LOT of good football. And as we saw in DEN, McDaniels isn’t Bill, and should not have full control. If McDaniels pushes for a demand, Wolf will have no problems letting McDaniels know what they always say in NE. “Do your job.”

OC – James Campen – While he is struggling as the OL coach for HOU, he has little to work with. As an example of how soling he has been he was the OL coach for GB (under Wolf) he was helping GB from 2004 to 2018. We have seen a LOT of good OL play during that time.

DC – Jerod Mayo- See above.

 

Less Handsome and Much Taller McVay

HC- O’Connell – McVay is putting together quite a coaching tree and he blocked O’Connell from moving to the Chargers. Clearly he thinks highly of him. With Monty and Herbert there are plenty of reps available to run stretches and such and then they get to toy with Fields’ running ability too. He has been under Brady and comes from the Shanahan tree. At only 36 he has been given a lot of respect, though he looks to have only had to start shaving in the last few years. 

GM – Brian Xander – Here we have a guy with GM experience. He saw DEN have a massive overhaul and was part of drafting Von Miller, Demaryius Thomas, Julius Thomas, and Eric Decker. Now he has spent the last 5 years (counting this year) with the Rams during their build up. He has seen and experienced highs and lows, and after 10 years away from being a GM he has built up a lot of experience. For the Rams, Xanders provides assistance in a multi-dimensional role blending the player personnel department and the coaching staff—college, pro, systems, video, coaching research, game management strategy and 'next gen' innovations. From 2017 to 2020, he has assisted with multiple talent acquisitions, ranking 1st in pro personnel (AV) and 7th in college scouting (AV). During those four years, the Rams have made a Super Bowl appearance, won two NFC West titles and generated a 46–24 record (4th), and have the youngest NFL team in 2021. He has also spearheaded 'continual evolution' installations, including evaluations, scouting processes, CFA committees, video integration and football systems. For the Coaching Staff, he has supported in-game recommendations for game management, strategic decisions, timeouts, challenges, 4th downs, end of half and NFL rules. On a weekly basis, he breaks down opponents using Telemetry and other data sources to find tactical indicators for the coaching staff.

That’s a LOT of work.

OC – Kevin Carberry – the current OL coach for the Rams, so this is more of a tie to Xander rather than the HC (unless we want Kromer back… no? Me either). The Rams are currently 6th in adjusted line yards and 1st in adjusted sack rate. With Waldron or O’Connell taking the reigns with the playcalling and QB I want Carberry keeping Fields upright and getting Monty/Herbery lanes to run in.

DC – Looked under both the Rams, Seattle, and even the Lions under Xanders and the best I could see was Teryl Austin or Clint Hurrtt (our former coach). If no big name is fired then I might just stick with Desai and add some actual NFL talent at CB and drop some of the corpses like Trevathan.

 

 Less Handsome and Equally Short McVay

HC – Waldron – Same as I said about O’Connell but Waldron has been running the show offensively in SEA. Even with a trash OL they were averaging 26 ppg before Wilson got hurt (he had 9 TDs and 0 INTs in those 4 games). In 3.5 games Geno Smith has had 5 TDs and 1 INT. That is nothing to sneeze at. Unlike Nagy his offense didn’t take “3 years to master” apparently.

GM – Scott Fitterer or Trent Kirchner – Both have been cross trained in SEA and played a big role in the growth and development there. Scott has more focus on the college scouting while Trent with the pros, but there is constant overlap with them.

I actually would tie Xanders here more but thought I’d throw some other names out there.

DC – Kris Richards – He took over for Quinn when he left to be the HC of ATL and did well. His defense was 1st, 3rd, and 13th in his three years. The outlier was losing Sherman, Chancellor, and Maxwell all for about half the season, plus Earl Thomas being banged up I believe. While Maxwell wasn’t great he was a good fit for the defense and Griffin was forced to start over half the games due to injuries. We could do much worse than Richards.  

 

 No not that one... the other one.... the younger one.

HC – Brady – I’m cooling on him but to be fair CMC is out and I’ve never been high on Bridgewater or Darnold. I think with Fields he has a lot closer toolset to working with Burrow. Fields isn’t as advanced a passer as Burrow was his rookie year but the athleticism is a far larger difference than arm talent. Could Brady work with that? I think so.

GM – Ed Dodds – Brady is a young HC who has enough on his plate, Dodds will handle the coaching hires and take a huge role in drafting. He’s been in Ballard’s hip pocket for years and will step into Halas Hall with no nonsense about adding talent. Dodds would be a top hire and was huge in rebuilding the Colts roster into a talented group. They are a QB away from being a major threat, and we have a QB already. Brady gets to zero in there.

OC – Bobby Johnson – See above, was an assistant OL coach under Dodds.

DC - Dave Borgonzi – He has spent time under Lovie Smith, Leslie Frazier, Joe Cullen, and now under Eberflus since 2018. He is a linebacker specialist, under Eberflus, who was also a linebacker specialist. Not a calling that would be world breaking but has potential

 

 

He hasn't had to start shaving either

HC – Moore – I love what he has done with Dak. He understands his players’ strengths and attacks with them. While the DAL offense miles better than the CHI roster it is built on two things. Having a bully OL and skill positions being major playmakers. They went for explosive talent and Moore is maximizing it.

GM - Will McClay – Like it or not the Cowboys have one of the most talented rosters in football, and McClay has been with them since 2009. He also has coaching experience. Granted it was Arena football but he was able to coach there for 15 years before moving to the other side of football.

OC – Joe Philbin – He was a meh HC but he is a top OL coach in the NFL. Got his roots in Green Bay and after going from OL to OC he went to be the HC of Miami. Offensively they actually improved a lot but the defense dropped off the map while he was there. Went back to GB as the OC and then was let go after being the interim HC when Fat Mac was fired. He did well there really but new HC wanted his new staff. Now he is the OL coach for the Cowboys. His experience would be FANTASTIC for Moore. As of right now DAL is also the best in the NFL for adjusted line yards.

DC – Unless Al Harris is ready to make the jump I’d stick with Desai before getting anyone from the DAL tree. Either get a vet DC or someone like Mayo and let them own the defense.

 

 His name is fitting of a warrior, his body and height fitting of someone whose best friend is Legolas. 

HC – Greg Roman – What he has done with Lamar is stunning, just as crazy and maybe even more impressive than what Daboll has done with Allen. Jackson is definitely the top athlete at QB but Fields IMO is 2nd even above Murray. Greg made Kaep look like a solid QB when he clearly wasn’t per later play, and he has loves having absolute maulers for OL. The tough, hardnosed, violent style of play would be welcome after having the Charmin squad give up quick pressure at such a regular basis. We may see an OL like Bars become a literal big TE or FB, they will let you know they’re going to run all over you and punch you in the mouth when you try to stop it. I like that he dictates what the offense will do, not just try to attack a weakness of the defense. Fields would thrive under him IMO.

GM – Joe Horitz – 24 years in BAL. Dude was literally there like a year after Ray Lewis and Ogden arrived there. He’s seen the build of elite defenses, offenses, a Super Bowl, and the offensive transition from Flacco to Jackson. He’s been instrumental in the offensive roster fitting Jackson’s skillset, so he understands not to try to fit a square peg into a round hole. And really, over the last 20 years BAL has been one of the premier franchises in wins, drafting, and having some of the most talented rosters in the league.

OC - Joe D'Alessandris – Roman takes the calls and skill positions, but he wants bullies to take care of the running lanes. Joe has been his OL coach since 2017 and done really well there. He knows the calls and protections Roman wants, and gets the OL to be absolute bullies.

DC – Chris Hewitt – He has been in BAL coaching DBs since 2012. He has been in a group that had seen Martindale, Macdonald, Pees, Cullen, Frazier, and Spagnuolo all get promoted up. It may just be his time, he certainly has enough experience to make the move.

 

 

 

 

Ok. so the Mega Happy Ending

waynes-world-happy-ending.gif

 

President of Football Operations - Rick Smith

Rick was key in HOU coming up and challenging the top teams in the NFL. His record of early picks was exceptional. JJ Watt, Watson, Hopkins, and more. He left in 2017 to take care of his wife - who had terminal cancer. HOU quickly fell apart without him running the show. His experience would be a welcome aid to the new GM. A trend you'll see is tempering youth with experience, though in this case youth is more relevant to their role. Smith starts this off.

 

General Manager - Joe Horitz

His flexibility has been a major boon to me, plus his resume is fantastic. His work with Newsome and Decosta traces back 24 years. That's NFL Executive Royalty almost. Few people have the level of experience he has and he brings ALL of it with him. He and Smith make a hell of a duo, one that rivals Newsome/Decosta and Ballard/Dodds. I'd easily rank it with Veach/Borgonzi too. 

 

Assistant General Manager - Champ Kelly

Kelly has been tied to a number of the biggest moves Chicago has made. He deserves consideration for a GM role and likely will get it sooner rather than later, but rather than have the executive version of Staley leave for greener pastures we promote him and allow him to help Horitz. He gets a pay raise and now gets to learn from Smith and Horitz, grooming himself to be a solid GM choice in the next few rounds of interviews. It is important for promoting within IMO, and Kelly can be the proof of that.

 

Head Coach - Brian Daboll

He didn't get to ride in with a HOF QB, He took Allen in his rookie year during his first year as a playcaller for BUF. 17 ppg, 52%completion, 10 TDs, 12 INTs, 172 ypg passing. That is crap, but Allen was raw. in 2019 the ppg goes up to 19, and now Allen has a 59% completion percentage, 20 passing TDs, 9 INTs, and has almost 3100 passing yards (500 rushing yards and 9 TDs on the ground too). Then in 2020 they jump to over30 ppg, Allen gets to 69 completion %, throws for 37/10 and 4500 yards, and rushes for 400 yards and 8 scores. This year he is showing that was no fluke. Daboll is killing it and has SO MUCH more experience than Nagy did that they're barley comparable. He already took his lumps and showed he can develop a raw, talented QB. He'd thrive here.

 

OC - Joe Philbin (also given title of Assistant HC)

Why Philbin over Bobby Johnson, who Daboll is familiar with? Philbin's experience. He is a top OL coach too, but has seen the game as an OC for 14 years, and OL coach for 16 years (not counting when he was OC too), and HC for 4.5 years. Daboll is set on creating mismatches, and Philbin is going to own the OL and provide a ton of experience as an OC and HC to Daboll.

 

OL Coach - Jeff Blasko

Philbin is incredibly experienced, but that comes with age. At 60 I'm not sure how much longer he will want to grind. I want Blasko to continue learning under him. He was under him in GB and Philbin brought him in, so let him groom his protege and when Philbin wants a lower workload he can become an offensive assistant like Tom Moore did, then he can let Blasko take the reigns as the OC. Coaches need groomed too.

 

QB Coach/Passing Game Coordinator - Shea Tierney

On the day Josh Allen signed his massive contract extension, he thanked Tierney by name. Dorsey is staying in BUF to take over playcalling duties. He isn't following Daboll to be an overpaid QB coach IMO. Tierney knows that having Allen under his belt is a massive notch to brag about, but if he can take part of a Fields development then his name will REALLY circulate. Plus when he sees that he has Philbin to learn from as well he gets more exposure to 20+ years of being an OC and beyond to learn from. He's Daboll's right hand man and has been since their time at Alabama. He's a shoe in to bring over.

 

Defensive Coordinator - Jerod Mayo

He was Bills on-the-field coach for years, he knew the system and made the reads. He was the leader of a damn solid unit, taking over for Vrabel in that role (not easy shoes to fill). Mayo may be little more than a rental because he will likely be like Vrabel and Staley, defensive guys who get noticed and ****** a job fast. If Eberflus doesn't get a HC gig this year then I believe Mayo will skip him in the HC pecking order. I'm a fan of Eberflus too, I just think Mayo is that much of a bigger swing. Mayo would bring a toughness that fits with Bears history, and is smart enough that he won't get pigeonholed into a set defense. NE was well known for creative looks, blitzes and being very technical. He'll coach them up.

 

DB Coach - Vinnie Sunseri

Sunseri was a S coach last year but Bill gave that role to his son and moved Vinnie to RB Coach. Bizarre considering he barely played RB in high school so his experience to offer is literally LB and DBs. Mayo is a temp so Sunseri is his chance to bring someone he is familiar with, who was known for his own leadership abilities, and maybe fill his role when Mayo gets that call. If Mayo is here then Sunseri is still key to helping install the system, calls, coverages, etc.

 

Senior Defensive Assistant - Mike Pettine

I want to keep him on the staff in the same role. Mayo is a new DC, Sunseri will be active in more than DBs and likely Mayo's right hand man. Pettine has a lot of experience to offer and while he will dictate nothing directly, having that much experience as a DC and HC will only help Mayo.

 

 

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Clearly I'll go with the Smith-Daboll combo. I've been all aboard the Smith train since I was hoping they'd ****-can Pace last year. The only question is: is he ready? IIRC he stepped away due to health issues with his wife. Although those are seemingly over with, would he want to take time away from family again?

Unfortunately I think Daboll will go to the Jaguars (another high pick + Lawrence) or Dolphins (only if they pull off a Watson trade).

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Everyone smart seems to really like Daboll, so that sounds fine to me.  I think the smart people wanted Nagy too, so good luck to us whatever happens.  I think the talent matters more, so lets hope whoevers coaching gets some players and can manage not to **** it up.  

 

Also: disagree, dialog, discourse, dispute. 

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3 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Clearly I'll go with the Smith-Daboll combo. I've been all aboard the Smith train since I was hoping they'd ****-can Pace last year. The only question is: is he ready? IIRC he stepped away due to health issues with his wife. Although those are seemingly over with, would he want to take time away from family again?

Unfortunately I think Daboll will go to the Jaguars (another high pick + Lawrence) or Dolphins (only if they pull off a Watson trade).

I think that is why Smith would do well being above the GM.  Part of why Peyton Manning (who would actually be my number two here) said he didn't want to take over the GM role because of the hours it requires. That's why he has mulled around the idea of being a team president or other high end executive. You're still highly involved but with more traditional hours. Rick was one of the guys interested in interviewing for the Lions, Falcons and Jags jobs IIRC. So if he didn't outright say he didn't want the gig then he is willing to come back.

 

If Daboll goes to the Jags or MIA then give me Moore. He is my 1B, what he did with Rush at QB last night was fantastic and shows he doesn't just have to ride talent at QB. I do hope that being a year late doesn't screw us for the HC options. Pace really cut his own throat by sticking around.

 

2 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

Everyone smart seems to really like Daboll, so that sounds fine to me.  I think the smart people wanted Nagy too, so good luck to us whatever happens.  I think the talent matters more, so lets hope whoevers coaching gets some players and can manage not to **** it up.  

 

Also: disagree, dialog, discourse, dispute. 

Big difference is experience and how much control he has over the offense. Daboll owns that offense, whereas Nagy was a puppet who got talked up by Reid. I bit on it, and hoped Nagy would fair better than the rest of the offensive coaching staff that became HCs from his tree. Pederson was the most successful and even he looks to be flash in the pan. Same with Moore, Waldron, Leftwich, Roman, McDaniels and Brady. McVay runs the offense so O'Connell has some serious concerns in his lack of playcalling, he is the only one IMO that has mirrored concerns to Nagy. But, Waldron has done well offensively and was in the same boat.

It was late dammit!

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Bears management and fan process:

Bears hire new coach and GM - everyone likes them in year one.   Optimism abounds.   

Questions start in year 2.

Year 3 people are split.

Year 4 most people are ready for change.

Year 5 pitchforks are out and active booing is happening.

Bears hire new coach and GM.

And on and on.  

If it was me give me Belichick and Josh McDaniel as package with McDaniels as successor.   Give Belichick 4 years as HC then retire and McDaniels 10 total.   Let them have total control of football operations.  Everything else can be Philips.

I don't think Belichick and Kraft really like each other.   It could be done.   Never happen, but that is what I would do.

 Barring that I would hire McDaniels and give him an 8 year deal and live with what he does.  Get off this stupid roller coaster.   That will also never happen.

We will hire some first year coach or mediocre retread and do the 4 - 5 year carousel again.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Bears management and fan process:

Bears hire new coach and GM - everyone likes them in year one.   Optimism abounds.   

Questions start in year 2.

Year 3 people are split.

Year 4 most people are ready for change.

Year 5 pitchforks are out and active booing is happening.

Bears hire new coach and GM.

And on and on.  

If it was me give me Belichick and Josh McDaniel as package with McDaniels as successor.   Give Belichick 4 years as HC then retire and McDaniels 10 total.   Let them have total control of football operations.  Everything else can be Philips.

I don't think Belichick and Kraft really like each other.   It could be done.   Never happen, but that is what I would do.

 Barring that I would hire McDaniels and give him an 8 year deal and live with what he does.  Get off this stupid roller coaster.   That will also never happen.

We will hire some first year coach or mediocre retread and do the 4 - 5 year carousel again.

 

 

 

 

When an idiotic owner and a doofus president are the ones doing the hiring, it's no wonder every GM is a dope

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A new head coach every 3-4 years, and new GM roughly the same time(somehow Pace has been with us for 6 years now)  This is a factor why we're mediocre at best with a solid season every 5 years.  Teams like NE, Pitt even GB are good for a long time partly because of stability at head coach and GM.  If we want to be good for years, this is a factor. 

We have a rookie QB with a lot of potential, 2 young RBs who are solid, and a few key players to build around on both sides of the ball.  You'd think we're an attractive team for a hungry coach and GM.  We all pretty much want Nagy and Pace gone.  Let's can them and get an actual GM and head coach. 

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1 hour ago, Bowler1215 said:

A new head coach every 3-4 years, and new GM roughly the same time(somehow Pace has been with us for 6 years now)  This is a factor why we're mediocre at best with a solid season every 5 years.  Teams like NE, Pitt even GB are good for a long time partly because of stability at head coach and GM.  If we want to be good for years, this is a factor. 

We have a rookie QB with a lot of potential, 2 young RBs who are solid, and a few key players to build around on both sides of the ball.  You'd think we're an attractive team for a hungry coach and GM.  We all pretty much want Nagy and Pace gone.  Let's can them and get an actual GM and head coach. 

We have stability, just low level of success has been the standard. lol   Really I agree with you.

Nagy has been here for 4 seasons and has one winning record, sadly Pace has been here for 7 (counting this failed one too) and has the same setting. One winning season in 7. The reason GB, NE, and PIT have the same guys for so long isn't because they keep the same staff. They keep the same staff because they keep winning. Each has had a HOF QB too, two straight in the case of GB. That was the biggest key IMO. Had Pace not botched the pick of Tru or Nagy botched his development then they would be sitting comfortably. How many other franchises are as starved for a franchise QB? Nail that one prerequisite and they would be kings in Chicago. Miss it and, well, they're like every other GM and HC we've had since the last Super Bowl - disappointments. Statistically they are just as you said, failures with the one aberration of a winning season.

In no way do I think anything would have helped the Emery/Trestman debacle straighten out. Fox was never intended to be the guy either, he was suppose to be the stepping stone so the new HC had a better situation to come into. Pace and Nagy are heading toward the Emery/Trestman territory. We had Angelo for 10ish years and Lovie for a few less than that and had one great season, then each year was marred by pathetic offense. Miller, Orton, and Grossman were our cornerstones, then Jay. And some people wonder why we've been in football purgatory while GB kicks our teeth in for something like 5 of 6 wins every 3 seasons. 

7 seasons since 2000 that we won over half our games, and 6 seasons of 5 wins or less.

The bar is set fairly low, just a competent duo who can develop talent will be the best we've had since before I was born.

 

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2 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

You took one for the team.

Thank you for that...

Thank you.

I've had this jumbling around for a hot minute, just finally took the time to sort it out and type it out. Was borderline therapeutic since I'm trying not to make a mock until week 11 is over. lol   I'm trying to give them 10 games so my post isn't in any way kneejerk or anything. That being said, this has been really status quo for a Nagy led season.

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1 hour ago, abstract_thought said:

Stability is the effect, not the cause. The cause is good organizations hiring good people.

100%.

And I understand the league  is a competition or a large tournament.   Success is difficult to come by in that circumstance.

But I think I have only been truly excited about 1 draft in real time since I was a boy and that was last years (2021).  

  I have put a good face on many, but that is just wanting it and not truly believing in it.

I know my opinion isn't be all end all, but man it has mostly turned out bad since 80s. 

And even in 80s SF and Pittsburgh and others were pointing the right way to do things as an org. and be successful and Bears weren't learning.   Its a 100% copy cat league in terms of schemes, but management seems really slow or never does copy good management or what others are succeeding with.

As far as I can tell the key to sustained winning in pros is building a program.   Same as youth, hs and college.   You don't bring people in and out all the time.  You have good people at top.   You have same scheme framework year after year with adjustments to personnel (your scheme should be able to adjust to your talent).   You promote from within.   You have good facilities, food, lodging etc. so people want to come to your program.

When you shift people every 4-5 years you have to hope to catch lightening in a bottle and win one year with great talent.  Then the talent leaves and you suck again for a long time until you essentially get lucky for a season again. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Sugashane said:

We have stability, just low level of success has been the standard. lol   Really I agree with you.

Nagy has been here for 4 seasons and has one winning record, sadly Pace has been here for 7 (counting this failed one too) and has the same setting. One winning season in 7. The reason GB, NE, and PIT have the same guys for so long isn't because they keep the same staff. They keep the same staff because they keep winning. Each has had a HOF QB too, two straight in the case of GB. That was the biggest key IMO. Had Pace not botched the pick of Tru or Nagy botched his development then they would be sitting comfortably. How many other franchises are as starved for a franchise QB? Nail that one prerequisite and they would be kings in Chicago. Miss it and, well, they're like every other GM and HC we've had since the last Super Bowl - disappointments. Statistically they are just as you said, failures with the one aberration of a winning season.

In no way do I think anything would have helped the Emery/Trestman debacle straighten out. Fox was never intended to be the guy either, he was suppose to be the stepping stone so the new HC had a better situation to come into. Pace and Nagy are heading toward the Emery/Trestman territory. We had Angelo for 10ish years and Lovie for a few less than that and had one great season, then each year was marred by pathetic offense. Miller, Orton, and Grossman were our cornerstones, then Jay. And some people wonder why we've been in football purgatory while GB kicks our teeth in for something like 5 of 6 wins every 3 seasons. 

7 seasons since 2000 that we won over half our games, and 6 seasons of 5 wins or less.

The bar is set fairly low, just a competent duo who can develop talent will be the best we've had since before I was born.

 

Pittsburgh doesn't win every year.  No one does.

You have to able to recognize what works in football and what doesn't.   What good programs do and what bad programs do and implement it.  You don't have to reinvent wheel just copy one.   

If you have guys that understand that in place you can keep them through losing seasons.   Unless they get complacent and game passes them by.

Pace is a pretty good scout, but he didn't grasp the importance of O line.   Nor did he recognize that Nagy doesn't develop players or play the best players or put them in positions to succeed based on their strengths and weaknesses.

I am a schlub and I went to one training camp practice and could easily see it and this in a year we all (including me) thought we were going to be really good (2019) and we were all really high on Nagy and co.   I left that practice feeling really dejected.   Came here wrote a long post on it and got hammered.   Basically people were saying what did I know and why should they believe me over these guys with huge reps like Nagy and Harry Hiestand.   Then I deleted it because they made me think maybe they were right.   I was applying high school and youth knowledge and experience to how these guys were teaching and running practice and I too wondered if it applied at all.   I think now I know that it did and I think it does.   Fundamentals matter - even at pros.   Playing best player matters even at pros.    Teaching matters even at pros.   I was seeing none of that happening to my satisfaction.   I was sitting 10 feet from action.  

You can still see it.   Our fundamentals are poor on O and D (because they aren't' practiced).  Young players don't get better.  They start out good and stay good or they start bad and stay bad.   Best players don't play.  Mustipher should have been challenged in offseason and Horstead and James deserve playing time.   Bars never plays.   Trevathan should not play and on and on.   We didn't spend offseason concentrating on our star QB and future (that is criminal in my opinion).

In short Pace can't recognize good or bad coaching and worse contributes to it and agrees with it and therefore he has to go too.

 

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23 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Pittsburgh doesn't win every year.  No one does.

Not every year, but damn near. Winning is a tradition there, not an outlier. That's what I mean.

Since Chuck Noll took over in 1969 the Steelers have had only 3 seasons with 5 wins or less. His first 2 seasons and once in the 80s. They had I believe 37 winning seasons in that span and 5 .500 records. Since Noll's first winning season they've only had 7 losing seasons. 7 in about 50 years. That is what I mean by winning.

The bar is high there, meanwhile Chicago did the bar from 4 feet deep just to trip over it. 

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