2021: The Offseason of Discontent

[ramssuperbowl99]

10 hours ago, Eagles27 said:

I can understand siding with the players, but I don't see why people think the owners should happily give them what they want. It's easy to say they make enough money when you're not the one lowering your profits. Any of us would probably take a similar stance in their position. 

I think this is an excellent argument for changing MLB's ownership model. 

The 50+1 rule for German soccer teams use readily solves most of the biggest issues in baseball. It's not perfect, but a magic furnace we made money sacrifices to would be a more effective ownership structure than baseball has now.

[ramssuperbowl99]

The players should violate confidentiality and publicly provide the details of what was changed.

[hrubes20]

13 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

I just read they want to ban the shift?? 

Thoughts? I find it to be ridiculous but I've only thought about it for 2 minutes

The shift takes away a bunch of offense.  I enjoy watching offense.  Therefore I am in favor of prohibiting the shifts where a SS or 2B is playing in short RF or LF.  Keep them all on the dirt.

5 hours ago, MWil23 said:

I was legitimately shocked (and it’s my own fault) to see baseball was the lowest player minimum professional contract of the major sports as well. Embarrassing.

It truly is. 

14 hours ago, Eagles27 said:

I can understand siding with the players, but I don't see why people think the owners should happily give them what they want. It's easy to say they make enough money when you're not the one lowering your profits. Any of us would probably take a similar stance in their position. 

The players got bent over in the past, and it will take multiple negotiating cycles to get them where they need to be. 

I just want baseball back. so hopefully this doesn't drag on too much longer. 

Nobody is saying the owners should cave.  The main argument is that players should be compensated relative to the revenue being earned by MLB.  That is reached by multiple different avenues such as raising the LT threshhold so that large market teams can spend more; instituting a salary floor, so that small market teams are forced to spend money instead of hoarding it; raise the percentage of 2nd year players that are eligible for arbitration; raise the salary minimums; make a pool of money each year that awards the top performing pre-arb players; etc.  While I would love to see the owners actually lowering their profits to get a better product on the field, just spending in line with the increasing revenues is a small ask.  Here is spending relative to revenues lately:

 

[BobbyPhil1781]

31 minutes ago, hrubes20 said:

The shift takes away a bunch of offense.  I enjoy watching offense.  Therefore I am in favor of prohibiting the shifts where a SS or 2B is playing in short RF or LF.  Keep them all on the dirt.

Or you can change your approach at the plate. I never found it hard to hit to opposite field but while I'm left handed, I bat right. Maybe the dynamics of a left handed swinging motion make that more difficult? I say this b/c more shifts are for lefties which I'm sure everyone has noticed.

[hrubes20]

Just now, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Or you can change your approach at the plate. I never found it hard to hit to opposite field but while I'm left handed, I bat right. Maybe the dynamics of a left handed swinging motion make that more difficult? I say this b/c more shifts are for lefties which I'm sure everyone has noticed.

It's really hard to go oppo when a team loads up 5 defenders on one side of the field and then pitches you on the inner part of the plate the whole AB.  Even if you do manage to take it the other way, it's not going to be with much authority.  It's the difference between extra bases and bloop singles.  I'm sure more people would much rather see 110 mph line drives finding grass, than 85 mph cans of corn.

 

[BobbyPhil1781]

11 minutes ago, hrubes20 said:

It's really hard to go oppo when a team loads up 5 defenders on one side of the field and then pitches you on the inner part of the plate the whole AB.  Even if you do manage to take it the other way, it's not going to be with much authority.  It's the difference between extra bases and bloop singles.  I'm sure more people would much rather see 110 mph line drives finding grass, than 85 mph cans of corn.

 

Then make adjustments. I know it wasn't the smartest move but I know if the situation called for going opposite field, I took a step back in the box and stepped into the pitch. Obviously the exterior part of the plate was more vulnerable here but that's fine b/c if they noticed I stood back and thought I couldn't reach the outside, that was the goal. I know that the leagues I played in didn't have scouting reports so that might influence the hitter's ability to do this but it worked more than it didn't. If you're back and they still try to bust you inside, it's going to be off the plate so take the base.

I have to believe this is achievable in the majors or even the minors b/c if it was, people would do it. I just suggested my method of reaching opposite field easier than an inside-out swing which was more difficult for me.

[hrubes20]

15 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Then make adjustments. I know it wasn't the smartest move but I know if the situation called for going opposite field, I took a step back in the box and stepped into the pitch. Obviously the exterior part of the plate was more vulnerable here but that's fine b/c if they noticed I stood back and thought I couldn't reach the outside, that was the goal. I know that the leagues I played in didn't have scouting reports so that might influence the hitter's ability to do this but it worked more than it didn't. If you're back and they still try to bust you inside, it's going to be off the plate so take the base.

I have to believe this is achievable in the majors or even the minors b/c if it was, people would do it. I just suggested my method of reaching opposite field easier than an inside-out swing which was more difficult for me.

If the hitter is too far off the plate, they can just pitch on the outer half and get the hitter reaching, which again results in poorly struck baseballs.  These hitters are the best in the world and being coached by the best in the world.  If something this simple worked against big league pitching, it would have been done already.  

[BobbyPhil1781]

27 minutes ago, hrubes20 said:

If the hitter is too far off the plate, they can just pitch on the outer half and get the hitter reaching, which again results in poorly struck baseballs.  These hitters are the best in the world and being coached by the best in the world.  If something this simple worked against big league pitching, it would have been done already.  

Yep, I eluded to that probably not working. Like I said though, in my situation, there were no scouting reports obviously but if you could step into the pitch, they are not poorly struck which is what I suggested I did. My point was more that there has to be some adjustments that can be made rather than banning it altogether. Maybe I'm wrong.....

[kgarrett12486]

This whole thing is so baseball. it's gonna be such a mess.

The owners proposal was much different from that initially being reported, as others have eluded too. They tried to sneak some of the fine print items past the union. The owners are dug in, as they know they can afford to miss April and part of May if needed (generally the two months they don't have much revenue off the stadium amenities and ticket revenue), especially in the cold markets. They want to concede very little, as they continue to bargain from an area of power as they have over the last few CBA's and came out like bandits. They now operate with the dictatorship mentality, which is bad for the game...

The players/union know they've been bent over the last few CBA's and instead of likely taking what feasibly they can possibly get, they're hell bent on getting massive changes, which isn't gonna happen in one CBA cycle...

it's gonna eventually be where the players cave because the funds will dry up quickly for the majority of their players, but I'd be shocked if at this point we're playing meaningful baseball games before June... 

Both sides just don't seem to get the irreparable damage their doing to the game moving forward, or seem to care. You can't have this PR backlash hanging over a game that's been hurting the last few years anyway to stay out in front and relevant with the new generation coming up.  

[beekay414]

22 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

it's gonna eventually be where the players cave because the funds will dry up quickly for the majority of their players

Every MLB player is getting a $15,000/month stipend and they have enough money to run through mid-2023 assuming the payouts are only during in-season months. They are prepared to buckle down. 

[kgarrett12486]

59 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Every MLB player is getting a $15,000/month stipend and they have enough money to run through mid-2023 assuming the payouts are only during in-season months. They are prepared to buckle down. 

I thought I read it was a $5,000/month stipend average? Maybe I was wrong.

Either way, we'll see how committed they stay. I think they're gonna cave. 

[Mesa_Titan]

2 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Every MLB player is getting a $15,000/month stipend and they have enough money to run through mid-2023 assuming the payouts are only during in-season months. They are prepared to buckle down. 

That’s not even realistic. A holdout like that would be incredibly detrimental to both sides. Might as well cut off your nose to spite your face. 

[beekay414]

1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

I thought I read it was a $5,000/month stipend average? Maybe I was wrong.

Either way, we'll see how committed they stay. I think they're gonna cave. 

$5000 for now, $15,000 starting in April if there's no deal by Opening Day. 

[beekay414]

49 minutes ago, Mesa_Titan said:

That’s not even realistic. A holdout like that would be incredibly detrimental to both sides. Might as well cut off your nose to spite your face. 

Nobody is saying it'll go til mid-2023. The financials allow them to do so if need be. They've prepared for this and this is the only real way they can create any type of real leverage. They're banking on greedy owners caving and actually bargaining in good faith when the money doesn't come in. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

Tremendous PR work by the players.