Norm Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 1 hour ago, squire12 said: So is that a good thing or bad ? For the team you mean? I mean, I would find it hilarious. I wouldn't draft a pure guard before round 3 though, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 A Guard doesn't help us with our pass-rush; especially when our OL depth is better than we think it is provided our starters are healthy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 No Guard with a pick in the top 15. No WR Washington either. Sorry, but he has no route tree, one trick pony. If we're top 15 look to move up slightly for DE Bradley Chubb NC St. or stay put for Josh Allen LB Kentucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleisher Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 Thanks everyone for your input. I used Walters football prospects ratings for this draft. Look, we need to address the OL. How many years now has Rodgers been one of the most hit or sacked QB's? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Rodgers the last offensive player the Packers have taken in the 1st rd? I think investing a high rd pick on the OL is not far fetched. Rodgers is getting older and we need to protect him. Keep the thoughts coming, Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleisher Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 On 10/30/2017 at 4:24 PM, HorizontoZenith said: You'd find me picking out a ledge if this happened. What if the Guard turns out to be a pro bowler for 6-8 years and helps stabilize the OL , worth it then? Your right, we don't know this, but what if? I would take that chance to protect Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, jleisher said: What if the Guard turns out to be a pro bowler for 6-8 years and helps stabilize the OL , worth it then? Your right, we don't know this, but what if? I would take that chance to protect Rodgers. What if we pass on a pass rusher who goes to the HOF? I mean, if someone said, you can take a guard who will be a PB for 6-8 years, everyone is gonna do it. But I'd rather bet on a more important position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Just now, jleisher said: What if the Guard turns out to be a pro bowler for 6-8 years and helps stabilize the OL , worth it then? Absolutely. If there isn't a corner, pass rusher, safety, linebacker, defensive lineman or offensive tackle taken within the next five picks to have a similar career. We don't have those kinds of assurances, and since we don't, we have to assume that our 6-10 round draft pick is going to have a Hall of Fame career, at which point we have to ask which position helps us out the most. It's one thing if a guard is leaps and bounds the best available player, but at 7-10, that's not going to happen. Why do you think guards never go in the top ten? Because teams know they're not worth a top 10 pick. Off the top of your head, how many guards have gone top ten? Since 1970, there have been 61 guards taken in the first round. 15 of them have been taken in the top 10. Two guards have been taken in the top 10 since 2000. Chance Warmack and Jonathan Cooper. Since 1970, 60 quarterbacks have been taken in the top 10 alone. 60 running backs have been taken in the top 10 alone since 1970. 54 receivers have been taken in the top 10 alone. 52 tackles have been taken in the top 10 alone. 12 tight ends have been taken in the top 10. So just to make this abundantly clear, since 1970 there have been the following number of top ten picks: 60 top 10 quarterbacks. 60 top 10 running backs. 54 wide receivers. 52 offensive tackles. 15 guards. 12 tight ends. 0 centers. Do you think maybe that shows that NFL teams don't rate interior offensive linemen highly? Because that can't be coincidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 18 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Absolutely. If there isn't a corner, pass rusher, safety, linebacker, defensive lineman or offensive tackle taken within the next five picks to have a similar career. We don't have those kinds of assurances, and since we don't, we have to assume that our 6-10 round draft pick is going to have a Hall of Fame career, at which point we have to ask which position helps us out the most. It's one thing if a guard is leaps and bounds the best available player, but at 7-10, that's not going to happen. Why do you think guards never go in the top ten? Because teams know they're not worth a top 10 pick. Off the top of your head, how many guards have gone top ten? Since 1970, there have been 61 guards taken in the first round. 15 of them have been taken in the top 10. Two guards have been taken in the top 10 since 2000. Chance Warmack and Jonathan Cooper. Since 1970, 60 quarterbacks have been taken in the top 10 alone. 60 running backs have been taken in the top 10 alone since 1970. 54 receivers have been taken in the top 10 alone. 52 tackles have been taken in the top 10 alone. 12 tight ends have been taken in the top 10. So just to make this abundantly clear, since 1970 there have been the following number of top ten picks: 60 top 10 quarterbacks. 60 top 10 running backs. 54 wide receivers. 52 offensive tackles. 15 guards. 12 tight ends. 0 centers. Do you think maybe that shows that NFL teams don't rate interior offensive linemen highly? Because that can't be coincidence I'd like to see the OG thing since like 2000, maybe 2005. It seems like their value only has went down in the draft, the pay jumped lately though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 16 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: I'd like to see the OG thing since like 2000, maybe 2005. It seems like their value only has went down in the draft, the pay jumped lately though. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi This is a beautiful tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi This is a beautiful tool. Oh yeah all that stuff like they have is amazing. I'll Check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 4 hours ago, jleisher said: Thanks everyone for your input. I used Walters football prospects ratings for this draft. Look, we need to address the OL. How many years now has Rodgers been one of the most hit or sacked QB's? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Rodgers the last offensive player the Packers have taken in the 1st rd? I think investing a high rd pick on the OL is not far fetched. Rodgers is getting older and we need to protect him. Keep the thoughts coming, Thanks! Rodgers is also notorious for holding onto the ball far longer than he should, and that's probably not going to change. The fact is the Packers have consistently had one of the better OL in the NFL, and their history of developing OL later on in the draft is too hard to ignore. Right now, when you're looking at where the investment is most valued, EDGE and CB by far take the cake. And then you get into that next tier of players. To me, Nelson would have to be far and away the BVA for me to even consider him and OG falls in that same position as WR for me. I just don't have any real reason to invest a premium pick into that position given positional value, our past draft history, and our current team needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 4 hours ago, jleisher said: What if the Guard turns out to be a pro bowler for 6-8 years and helps stabilize the OL , worth it then? Your right, we don't know this, but what if? I would take that chance to protect Rodgers. OL is largely a product as a unit. You can have 4 All-Pro OL, but that weak link is going to be exploited game-after-game. I think the "issues" are being blown out of proportion because of injury. When healthy, our OL stacks up as well as anyone's IMO. They'll probably need to replace Jahri Evans after this year, and depending on what happens with Corey Linsley potentially him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 On 10/30/2017 at 2:10 PM, jleisher said: Packers finish 6-10, should give them a pick in the 10-15 range with 4 comp picks. 1st rd. Quenton Nelson G Notre Dame 1st rd. (Packers trade back into 1st rd in mid 20's, give up 2nd and 4th rd picks.) Dorance Armstrong OLB Kansas 3rd rd. Vita Vea NT Washington 3rd rd Comp. Isaiah Wynn OL Georgia 5th rd. James Washington WR Oklahoma St. 5th rd Comp. Damien Harris RB Alabama 6th rd. Tyquan Lewis OLB Ohio St. 6th rd Comp. Austin Proehl WR N.Carolina 7th rd. Drue Tranquill S Notre Dame 7th rd Comp. K.C. McDermott G/T Miami 1. Too high 2. Too high 3. Gone 4. Meh 5. GONE 5B. Gone 6. Gone 6B. Meh don’t know much about him 7. Ok 7. Good pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 4 hours ago, jleisher said: I think investing a high rd pick on the OL is not far fetched. It's not, if it's a tackle. It's absolutely absurdly far-fetched and unheard of for an interior offensive lineman considering it's happened twice this century and we're not going to get a top 10 pick while Rodgers is healthy, so we need to use it on a position that's important. Guard hasn't even been a weak spot for us THIS YEAR. How many times have you heard Taylor or Evans have their name called in a bad way this year? Yes, Evans is a free agent after this year, but you're talking about an opportunity to radically change the talent level of this team outside of Aaron Rodgers and you're going to put an interior lineman above a franchise pass rusher or defensive back when we've got no talent at pass rusher or defensive back? Doesn't seem wise to me at all, and it seems like the fact there have been 15 top 10 guards taken in the top 10 in the past 47 years is kinda proof that the position isn't all that important. Two case studies... Robert Gallery, busted hard as a tackle. Moved to interior lineman, turned into a decent player. Jonathan Cooper busted hard at guard, what are you gonna do with him now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleisher Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 On 11/1/2017 at 2:20 PM, NormSizedMidget said: What if we pass on a pass rusher who goes to the HOF? I mean, if someone said, you can take a guard who will be a PB for 6-8 years, everyone is gonna do it. But I'd rather bet on a more important position. Fair, but correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't been the logic of the Packers? Betting on more important positions? That hasn't turned out to great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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