SimbaWho Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) Quote Well idk, Just me thinking but it almost guarantees you'll suck for 2-3 years, just enough time for guys you drafted to buyout of whatever you're preaching. Just enough of Jared Goff to sabotage the whole rebuild imo, Just late enough picks to no matter enough. Just not my style. I'll wait to see whats up. But It seems like his players and destined to buy out from losing their first three years in. I don't see anything happening with this team with Jared Goff as a starter, so now is the time to find his replacement and who knows how long that'll take before we actually get it right. That was my post the NIGHT OF the Stafford trade and why I wasn't so pumped even though it was hailed as the greatest trade in DETROIT sports history. Everyone act like i'm crazy, and it's cool, I don't care. I just have to toot my own horn at times cause you all like to label me crazy/dumb and I get worried about myself... BUT!!! I get them wrong too, I liked Penei Sewell and thought he could be generational... and didn't want anything to do with Micah Parsons. Obviously I'm wrong but hey... I think I can read the Fords/ Lions like a elementary book. I just always imagine what I would do if I had no idea what I was doing... (Like when I flirt with women or try and raise children... ) Honestly, the more depressing issue about the aforementioned post is that some stupid idiot fan guy behind a computer can predict or rationalize a situation and things; Have more foresight or equal foresight to the current guys in charge or even ownership. They're supposed to be light years ahead of my thought process. (An they are in-terms of business income, etc.) Fords/Ownership have no idea how to win in football, an so till they get lucky and hit that nail on the head with the GM or Coach, they'll always be bad. An that's all the hire will be, pure luck. I'm not writing off Holmes yet, he's got this off-season basically to set his whole table and make me look like an idiot. I hope he does! So many opportunity's within the next two years even though I'm whinning about QB. Holmes could do some BOLD things, though Lions are ultra conservative so I don't see it... But after this off-season, we'll know a lot, a whole lot. It'll take more than 1 more off season to be a good/playoff team but the guys Holmes keeps/signs this off-season will signal a lot in what he's capable of evaluating going forward. Specially at QB, he doesn't need the franchise guy this year, but, who he does bring in will tell me everything I need to know about Holmes going forward. Edited November 23, 2021 by SimbaWho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFL_Fan Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 4 hours ago, SimbaWho said: That was my post the NIGHT OF the Stafford trade and why I wasn't so pumped even though it was hailed as the greatest trade in DETROIT sports history. Everyone act like i'm crazy, and it's cool, I don't care. I just have to toot my own horn at times cause you all like to label me crazy/dumb and I get worried about myself... BUT!!! I get them wrong too, I liked Penei Sewell and thought he could be generational... and didn't want anything to do with Micah Parsons. Obviously I'm wrong but hey... I think I can read the Fords/ Lions like a elementary book. I just always imagine what I would do if I had no idea what I was doing... (Like when I flirt with women or try and raise children... ) Honestly, the more depressing issue about the aforementioned post is that some stupid idiot fan guy behind a computer can predict or rationalize a situation and things; Have more foresight or equal foresight to the current guys in charge or even ownership. They're supposed to be light years ahead of my thought process. (An they are in-terms of business income, etc.) Fords/Ownership have no idea how to win in football, an so till they get lucky and hit that nail on the head with the GM or Coach, they'll always be bad. An that's all the hire will be, pure luck. I'm not writing off Holmes yet, he's got this off-season basically to set his whole table and make me look like an idiot. I hope he does! So many opportunity's within the next two years even though I'm whinning about QB. Holmes could do some BOLD things, though Lions are ultra conservative so I don't see it... But after this off-season, we'll know a lot, a whole lot. It'll take more than 1 more off season to be a good/playoff team but the guys Holmes keeps/signs this off-season will signal a lot in what he's capable of evaluating going forward. Specially at QB, he doesn't need the franchise guy this year, but, who he does bring in will tell me everything I need to know about Holmes going forward. OKAY THEN POST YOU MOCK OFFSEASON THAT YOU DID THIS PAST YEAR. I wanna see all the guys you said to grab. Before the Goff trade even. Lets see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimbaWho Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 57 minutes ago, NFL_Fan said: OKAY THEN POST YOU MOCK OFFSEASON THAT YOU DID THIS PAST YEAR. I wanna see all the guys you said to grab. Before the Goff trade even. Lets see it I'll look back and do my best. I don't remember doing a Stafford trade but I'll look. I'm sure there are multiple so I'll post at least three, it gets pretty wild watching where player ranking range within the year then throughout the off-season/predraft scrimmages and workouts. Quote Lions cut Nick Williams, Austin Bryant, Anthony Pittman, Nick Bawden, Jason Cornell, David Blough, John Atkins, Geronimo Allison, Frees over 11 million. 1st – Rashawn Slater, OT. NorthWesten. ( 6’4, 315lbs. ) 2nd – Zaven Collins, LB. Tulsa. ( 6’4, 260lbs. ) 3rd – Dayo Odeyingbo, DE. Vanderbilt. ( 6’6, 265lbs. ) 3rd – (L.A.R.) Chazz Surratt, LB. North Carolina. ( 6’2, 225lbs. ) 4th – Tyler Shelvin, DT. LSU. ( 6’3, 360lbs. ) 5th – Caden Sterns, S. Texas. ( 6’0, 210lbs. ) Lions sign DT Delvin Tomlinson to a 4 year deal worth 30 million dollars, 10 million dollar signing bonus. 20 million guaranteed. Lions sign WR Josh Reynolds to a 3 year deal worth 15 million dollars, 3 million dollar signing bonus. 6 million guaranteed. Lions sign DT Jaleel Johnson to a 3 year deal worth 15 million dollars, 3 million dollar signing bonus. Lions sign QB Mitchell Trubisky to a 2 year deal worth 4.5 million, 1.5 million dollar signing bonus. Lions sign WR John Ross to a 2 year deal worth 3.5 million, 500k dollar signing bonus. Lions LS Taybor Pepper to a 3 year deal worth 3.5 million, 500k dollar signing bonus. Lions sign C Tyler Shantley to a 1 year deal worth league minimum. Lions sign CB Arthur Maulet to a 1 year deal worth league minimum. Lions sign CB Darqueze Dennard to a 1 year deal worth league minimum. Lions resign CB Darryl Roberts to a 1 year deal worth league minimum. Lions resign LB Jarrad Davis to a 1 year deal worth league minimum. Lions resign LB/FB Jason Cabina to a 1 year RFA offer. Roster: RT: Tyrell Crosby, Halapoulivaati Vaitai RG: Jonah Jackson, Logan Stenberg OC: Frank Ragnow, Tyler Shantley LG: Rashawn Slater, Joe Dahl LT: Taylor Decker, Matt Nelson RB: D’Andre Swift, Mike Davis, Kerryon Johnson FB: Jason Cabina QB: Jared Goff, Chase Daniels, Mitchell Trubisky WR: Josh Reynolds, Tyrell Williams, Quintez Cephus, John Ross, Victor Bolden TE: T.J. Hockenson, Josh Hill, Hunter Bryant DE: Trey Flowers, Julian Okwara DT: Delvin Tomlinson, John Penisini, Kevin Strong DT: Jaleel Johnson,Tyler Shelvin DE: Dayo Odeyingbo, Deshawn Hand OLB: Chazz Surratt, Dion Hamilton MLB: Zaven Collins, Jahlani Tavai OLB: Jamie Collins, Jarrad Davis CB: Jeff Okudah, Darryl Roberts Nickle: Michael Ford, Darqueze Dennard S: Caden Sterns, Will Harris S: Tracy Walker, C.J. Moore CB: Amani Oruwariye, Arthur Maulet LS: Taybor Pepper P: Jack Fox K: Matthew Wright KR/PR: Victor Bolden Quote Lions trade the 7th pick to the Football Team for their 19th pick, S.F. 3rd round pick, and a 2nd round pick in 2022. Lions cut Justin Coleman, Danny Shelton, Nick Williams, Christian Jones, Austin Bryant, Anthony Pittman,Nick Bawden, Jasohn Cornell, David Blough, John Atkins, Frees over 18 million. 1st – (WAS) Najee Harris, RB. Alabama. ( 6’1, 230lbs. ) 2nd – Liam Eichenberg, OT. Notre Dame. ( 6’6, 305lbs. ) 3rd – Pete Werner, LB. Ohio State. ( 6’3, 245lbs. ) 3rd – (S.F.viaWAS) Quincey Roche, Edge Rusher. ( 6’3, 245lbs. ) 3rd – (L.A.R.) Tyler Shelvin, DT. LSU. ( 6’3, 360lbs. ) 4th – Kyle Trask, QB. Florida. ( 6’5, 240lbs. ) 5th – Caden Sterns, S. Texas. ( 6’0, 210lbs. ) Lions sign DT Delvin Tomlinson to a 4 year deal worth 28 million dollars, 10 million dollar signing bonus. 20 million guaranteed. Lions sign WR Corey Davis to a 3 year deal worth 25 million dollars, 7 million dollar signing bonus. 15 million guaranteed. Lions sign WR Josh Reynolds to a 3 year deal worth 15 million dollars, 3 million dollar signing bonus. Lions sign DT Jaleel Johnson to a 3 year deal worth 15 million dollars, 3 million dollar signing bonus. Lions sign K Younghoe Koo to a 3 year deal worth 7.5 million, 1.5 million dollar signing bonus. Lions sign LB Neville Hewitt to a 2 year deal worth 6.5 million, 2.5 million dollar signing bonus. Lions LS Taybor Pepper to a 3 year deal worth 3.5 million, 500k dollar signing bonus. Lions sign C Tyler Shatley to a 1 year deal worth league minimum. Lions sign CB Arthur Maulet to a 1 year deal worth league minimum. Lions resign CB Darryl Roberts to a 1 year deal worth league minimum. Lions resign LB/FB Jason Cabina to a 1 year RFA offer. Roster: RT: Liam Eichenberg, Halapoulivaati Vaitai RG: Tyrell Crosby, Logan Stenberg OC: Frank Ragnow, Russell Bodine LG: Jonah Jackson, Joe Dahl LT: Taylor Decker, Matt Nelson RB: Najee Harris, D’Andre Swift, Kerryon Johnson FB: Jason Cabina QB: Jared Goff, Chase Daniels, Kyle Trask WR: Corey Davis, Josh Reynolds, Quintez Cephus, Geronimo Allison, Victor Bolden TE: T.J. Hockenson, Jesse James, Hunter Bryant DE: Delvin Tomlinson, Deshawn Hand NT: John Penisini, Tyler Shelvin DE: Jaleel Johnson, Kevin Strong OLB: Trey Flowers, Quincey Roche MLB: Pete Werner, Dion Hamilton MLB: Neville Hewitt, Jahlani Tavai OLB: Jamie Collins, Julian Okwara CB: Desmond Trufant, Jeff Okudah Nickle: Darryl Roberts, Michael Ford S: Caden Sterns, Will Harris S: Tracy Walker, C.J. Moore CB: Amani Oruwariye, Arthur Maulet LS: Taybor Pepper P: Jack Fox K: Younghoe Koo KR/PR: Victor Bolden Quote Lions hire Rick Smith as GM. Lions hire Brain Daboll as HC. Ben McAdoo is hired as OC. Josh Wash is hired as DC. Doug Marrone is hired at AHC/OLine coach. Lions trade Mathew Stafford to the Patriots for their 1st round pick, 4th round pick, 7th round pick and a 4th round pick in 2022. Frees over 10 million. Lions cut CB Justin Coleman, CB Marcus Trufant, DT Danny Shelton, DT Nick Williams, DT DeShawn Hand, and DE Austin Bryant. Frees over 22 million. 1st – Kyle Wilson, QB. BYU. ( 6’3, 210lbs. ) 1st – (NE) DeVonta Smith, WR. Alabama. ( 6’1, 180lbs. ) 2nd – Rashod Bateman, WR. Minnesota. ( 6’1, 210lbs. ) 3rd – Patrick Jones II., DE. Pittsburgh. ( 6’5, 260lbs. ) 4th – Dimitri Moore, LB. Vanderbilt. ( 6’3, 225lbs. ) 4th – (NE) Tedarrell Slaton, DT. Florida. ( 6’5, 345lbs. ) 6th – Evan McPherson, K. Florida. ( 5’10, 165lbs. ) 7th – (NE) C.J. Marable, RB. Costal Carolina. ( 5’8, 200lbs. ) * Lions use Transition Tag on DE Romeo Okwara, * 15.5 * million dollar salary. * Lions resign WR Kenny Golladay to a 5 year deal worth 85 million dollars, 25 million dollar signing bonus. Lions sign DT Delvin Tomlinson to a 4 year deal worth 28 million dollars, 10 million dollar signing bonus. Lions sign OT Joe Haeg to a 3 year deal worth 21 million dollars, 6 million dollar signing bonus. Lions sign Kevin King to a 3 year deal worth 18.5 million, 3.5 million dollar signing bonus. Lions resign DE Everson Griffen to a 2 year deal worth 9.5 million dollars, 4.5 million dollar signing bonus. Lions sign QB Mike Glennon to a 3 year deal worth 7 million, 2.5 million dollar signing bonus. Lions sign S Josh Jones to a 1 year deal worth 1.5 million, 500k dollar signing bonus, 1 million dollar salary. Lions sign C Tyler Shantley to a 1 year deal worth league minimum. Lions sign CB Arthur Maulet to a 1 year deal worth league minimum. Lions sign CB Darqueze Dennard to a 1 year deal worth league minimum. Lions resign LS Don Mulbach to a 1 year deal worth the league minimum. Lions resign LB/FB Jason Cabina to a 1 year RFA offer. Roster: RT: Joe Haeg, Matt Nelson RG: Halapoulivaati Vaitai, Logan Stenberg OC: Frank Ragnow, Tyler Shatley LG: Jonah Jackson, Joe Dahl LT: Taylor Decker, Tyrell Crosby RB: D’Andre Swift, Kerryon Johnson, C.J. Marable FB: Jason Cabina QB: Kyle Wilson, Mike Glennon, Chase Daniels WR: Kenny Golladay, DeVonta Smith, Rashod Bateman, Quintez Cephus, Geronimo Allison TE: T.J. Hockenson, Jesse James, Hunter Bryant DE: Romeo Okwara, Patrick Jones II., Julian Okwara DT: Delvin Tomlinson, Kevin Strong DT: John Penisini, Tedarrell Slaton DE: Everson Griffen, Trey Flowers OLB: Christian Jones, Jayleen Maybin-Revees MLB: Dimitri Moore, Jahlani Tavai OLB: Jamie Collins, Jason Cabina CB: Kevin King, Amani Oruwariye Nickle: Darqueze Dennard, Michael Ford S: Josh Jones, Will Harris S: Tracy Walker, C.J. Moore CB: Jeff Okudah, Arthur Maulet LS: Don Mulbach P: Jack Fox K: Evan McPherson KR/PR: C.J. Marable Edited November 23, 2021 by SimbaWho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimbaWho Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) A lot of those guys werent around when I have them selected too so idk what this really proves anyways. The Re-draft after the draft is always where it's at. Quote 7, Penei Sewell, OT. 41, Nick Bolton, LB. 72, Don't hate the McNeill selection. Keep it. Alim McNeill, DT. 101, Jabril Cox, LB. 112, Don't hate it. Keep it Amon-Ra St. Brown., WR. 153, No trade up, dumb move imo, and typical to trade up for a reach. Idk who's getting there way in the scouting department but at least it's not in the 2nd round. We can live with a 4th round random trade up for a really low rated low ceiling guy... He should still be fired though( that guy in the scouting department.) Anyways... Shaun Wade, CB. Edited November 23, 2021 by SimbaWho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 10 hours ago, Rockcity2 said: This season ain't been nothing but a tank job..some of you can't see it? Look...would you rather find a qb that good with crap recievers or like a Goff that needs everything on offense. Who is Justin fields throwing to? Look at his ol... You need to give a QB, especially a young QB, a supporting cast. If you don't, you will succeed in damaging that QB's career. Justin Fields is not having a good year, despite having solid skill position talent around him (Allen Robinson, Mooney, Montgomery, Kmet, etc.). He needs more help from the OL and play calling. 6 hours ago, SimbaWho said: Well... I'll point out those guys are doing much better with Goff gone and Goff floundering hard. Obvioulsy someone situations are way different but maybe Goff was supported by the team and now he's exposed for what he is at QB. Like the first year he was a Ram and you had no Oline/run game/WR's or defense. Robert Woods's best years in his career were in 2018 and 2019 with Goff. Kupp is doing better, but that's not surprising when Stafford is a better QB. Brandin Cooks is definitely not outperforming his 2018 season in LA right now. Goff isn't going to elevate a team. You give him crap, and he'll play like crap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 20 minutes ago, jrry32 said: You need to give a QB, especially a young QB, a supporting cast. If you don't, you will succeed in damaging that QB's career. Justin Fields is not having a good year, despite having solid skill position talent around him (Allen Robinson, Mooney, Montgomery, Kmet, etc.). He needs more help from the OL and play calling. Robert Woods's best years in his career were in 2018 and 2019 with Goff. Kupp is doing better, but that's not surprising when Stafford is a better QB. Brandin Cooks is definitely not outperforming his 2018 season in LA right now. Goff isn't going to elevate a team. You give him crap, and he'll play like crap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimbaWho Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) Robert Woods was back on trend to match those career year numbers this year through the games he has played or did after a major major dip last year. Brandin Cooks, the year after leaving the Rams, had 1000 yards, much much much better than he had playing with Goff in 2019. An yes, even this year Bradin Cooks having a better year than he did when he was with the Rams his last year. Jared Goff clearly doesn't throw downfield anymore. Idk why, but for about three years straight now, unless you're a short yardage player/receiver you don't put up stats with Goff at QB. Highlight your playbook how you want to Jrry to fit your own personal argument. No one said he'll save the Lions. Diehard told you straight, guy can't throw beyond 10 yards accurately. Goffs not a good QB, wasn't a good QB last year even, and its why your team got rid of him. All your good players had major down years cause of Goff, Idk if anyone saying he's got a great supporting cast right now in Detroit either. What I know for sure is he can't support anything or anyone. He was most definately supported in LA the last couple seasons and not the other way around. I'm not sure if he got an injury or what, I'm not that familiar with the whole Rams organizational history like I am the Lions and a couple other teams I follow, but for now... He's a back-up at best in this league. I actually don't think you'll see Jared Goff as a starter in this league again(IMO) after this season. Edited November 24, 2021 by SimbaWho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 1 hour ago, SimbaWho said: Robert Woods was back on trend to match those career year numbers this year through the games he has played or did after a major major dip last year. Woods was lagging well behind his career years in LA. Quote Brandin Cooks, the year after leaving the Rams, had 1000 yards, much much much better than he had playing with Goff in 2019. An yes, even this year Bradin Cooks having a better year than he did when he was with the Rams his last year. Cooks was injured for most of 2019. He played, but he didn't look like the same guy. Quote Highlight your playbook how you want to Jrry to fit your own personal argument. No one said he'll save the Lions. Diehard told you straight, guy can't throw beyond 10 yards accurately. Goffs not a good QB, wasn't a good QB last year even, and its why your team got rid of him. All your good players had major down years cause of Goff, Idk if anyone saying he's got a great supporting cast right now in Detroit either. What I know for sure is he can't support anything or anyone. He was most definately supported in LA the last couple seasons and not the other way around. I'm not sure if he got an injury or what, I'm not that familiar with the whole Rams organizational history like I am the Lions and a couple other teams I follow, but for now... He's a back-up at best in this league. I actually don't think you'll see Jared Goff as a starter in this league again(IMO) after this season. 1. Goff played poorly in 2020. He regressed for some odd reason in a major way. No Rams fan would tell you he was a good QB in 2020. He wasn't. Before that, he was above average to very good depending on the year. 2. Goff used to be one of the best intermediate throwers in football (10 to 20 yard range). So I'm going to say that if he can't throw beyond 10 yards accurately, you need to consider that there are other factors in play. 3. I would hope nobody is saying he has a great supporting cast in Detroit. There's a strong argument that it's the worst supporting cast in football. Goff isn't good enough to do well in that situation. That's why I'm quite good with the Lions cutting bait. Eat the cap hit in 2022, focus on building up the supporting cast, find a cheap bridge, and try to find your QB of the future in the 2022 or 2023 Draft. 4. I have a feeling he'll be starting again if the Lions cut bait. There are usually less than 32 starting caliber QBs, and Goff repeatedly proved in LA that if you give him a good supporting cast, he can play winning football. If he's not starting again, it's because the dude took his money and decided to call it quits. Hell, we currently have teams starting Sam Darnold, Teddy Bridgewater, Tyrod Taylor/Davis Mills, Taylor Heinicke, Daniel Jones, Jameis Winston, and the ghosts of Ben Roethlisberger and Matt Ryan. With a QB Draft coming up that doesn't look so hot, odds are that there will be some teams needing a starting caliber QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 And just to be clear, I am not trying to argue that Goff isn't part of the problem. But I saw people saying over the past couple weeks that it would be nice to see what a backup could do because Goff's poor play was making it impossible to evaluate the roster. Well, the backup stepped in and looked even more inept. Then, people were saying that the lack of QB talent on the roster is the problem when it comes to evaluating other offensive players. Let's just be frank, the supporting cast sucks. Doesn't mean the QBs are great either. But the QBs aren't the reason why the supporting cast seems bad. For my money, the Lions had a good, potentially great, OL on paper. But injuries destroyed that. The WR group was bad to start the year and injuries turned it into a disaster. Swift and Hockenson are good players, but neither is elite. Jamaal Williams is a solid rotational back. Beyond that, the Lions have next to nothing in terms of skill talent. St. Brown might be a good slot at some point, but he's not a guy who can be a #1 at this stage. The other guys are all #4 WRs or worse. Jettisoning Goff won't solve the problems. The problems are far bigger than the QB. That all said, it's also not necessarily the wrong move. The Lions are going to need to put a lot of resources into building up this offense. And barring a truly brilliant offseason, next year is probably not going to be pretty either. It wouldn't be the worst of ideas to eat Goff's dead cap in 2022, bring in a cheap stop gap, and try to find a QB of the future. (Hell, you might even be able to trade him for a Day 3 pick since he'd only cost the acquiring team $10.65M after the Lions pay his roster bonus.) At the end of the day, Goff is a mirror. I think of QBs as in three broad categories: elevators (elevate the talent around them), mirrors (reflect the talent around them), and anchors (drag down the talent around them). Goff has had points in his career where he has been each. But he has mostly been a mirror. If you put him in a good situation, he can produce good results (2020 excepted). If you put him in a bad situation, he'll produce bad results. And it's fair to say that the Lions shouldn't bank on a guy who needs all the right pieces around him to thrive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 10 hours ago, jrry32 said: And just to be clear, I am not trying to argue that Goff isn't part of the problem. But I saw people saying over the past couple weeks that it would be nice to see what a backup could do because Goff's poor play was making it impossible to evaluate the roster. Well, the backup stepped in and looked even more inept. Then, people were saying that the lack of QB talent on the roster is the problem when it comes to evaluating other offensive players. Let's just be frank, the supporting cast sucks. Doesn't mean the QBs are great either. But the QBs aren't the reason why the supporting cast seems bad. For my money, the Lions had a good, potentially great, OL on paper. But injuries destroyed that. The WR group was bad to start the year and injuries turned it into a disaster. Swift and Hockenson are good players, but neither is elite. Jamaal Williams is a solid rotational back. Beyond that, the Lions have next to nothing in terms of skill talent. St. Brown might be a good slot at some point, but he's not a guy who can be a #1 at this stage. The other guys are all #4 WRs or worse. Jettisoning Goff won't solve the problems. The problems are far bigger than the QB. That all said, it's also not necessarily the wrong move. The Lions are going to need to put a lot of resources into building up this offense. And barring a truly brilliant offseason, next year is probably not going to be pretty either. It wouldn't be the worst of ideas to eat Goff's dead cap in 2022, bring in a cheap stop gap, and try to find a QB of the future. (Hell, you might even be able to trade him for a Day 3 pick since he'd only cost the acquiring team $10.65M after the Lions pay his roster bonus.) At the end of the day, Goff is a mirror. I think of QBs as in three broad categories: elevators (elevate the talent around them), mirrors (reflect the talent around them), and anchors (drag down the talent around them). Goff has had points in his career where he has been each. But he has mostly been a mirror. If you put him in a good situation, he can produce good results (2020 excepted). If you put him in a bad situation, he'll produce bad results. And it's fair to say that the Lions shouldn't bank on a guy who needs all the right pieces around him to thrive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 10 hours ago, jrry32 said: And just to be clear, I am not trying to argue that Goff isn't part of the problem. But I saw people saying over the past couple weeks that it would be nice to see what a backup could do because Goff's poor play was making it impossible to evaluate the roster. Well, the backup stepped in and looked even more inept. Then, people were saying that the lack of QB talent on the roster is the problem when it comes to evaluating other offensive players. Let's just be frank, the supporting cast sucks. Doesn't mean the QBs are great either. But the QBs aren't the reason why the supporting cast seems bad. For my money, the Lions had a good, potentially great, OL on paper. But injuries destroyed that. The WR group was bad to start the year and injuries turned it into a disaster. Swift and Hockenson are good players, but neither is elite. Jamaal Williams is a solid rotational back. Beyond that, the Lions have next to nothing in terms of skill talent. St. Brown might be a good slot at some point, but he's not a guy who can be a #1 at this stage. The other guys are all #4 WRs or worse. Jettisoning Goff won't solve the problems. The problems are far bigger than the QB. That all said, it's also not necessarily the wrong move. The Lions are going to need to put a lot of resources into building up this offense. And barring a truly brilliant offseason, next year is probably not going to be pretty either. It wouldn't be the worst of ideas to eat Goff's dead cap in 2022, bring in a cheap stop gap, and try to find a QB of the future. (Hell, you might even be able to trade him for a Day 3 pick since he'd only cost the acquiring team $10.65M after the Lions pay his roster bonus.) At the end of the day, Goff is a mirror. I think of QBs as in three broad categories: elevators (elevate the talent around them), mirrors (reflect the talent around them), and anchors (drag down the talent around them). Goff has had points in his career where he has been each. But he has mostly been a mirror. If you put him in a good situation, he can produce good results (2020 excepted). If you put him in a bad situation, he'll produce bad results. And it's fair to say that the Lions shouldn't bank on a guy who needs all the right pieces around him to thrive. Jared Goff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 10 hours ago, jrry32 said: And just to be clear, I am not trying to argue that Goff isn't part of the problem. But I saw people saying over the past couple weeks that it would be nice to see what a backup could do because Goff's poor play was making it impossible to evaluate the roster. Well, the backup stepped in and looked even more inept. Then, people were saying that the lack of QB talent on the roster is the problem when it comes to evaluating other offensive players. Let's just be frank, the supporting cast sucks. Doesn't mean the QBs are great either. But the QBs aren't the reason why the supporting cast seems bad. For my money, the Lions had a good, potentially great, OL on paper. But injuries destroyed that. The WR group was bad to start the year and injuries turned it into a disaster. Swift and Hockenson are good players, but neither is elite. Jamaal Williams is a solid rotational back. Beyond that, the Lions have next to nothing in terms of skill talent. St. Brown might be a good slot at some point, but he's not a guy who can be a #1 at this stage. The other guys are all #4 WRs or worse. Jettisoning Goff won't solve the problems. The problems are far bigger than the QB. That all said, it's also not necessarily the wrong move. The Lions are going to need to put a lot of resources into building up this offense. And barring a truly brilliant offseason, next year is probably not going to be pretty either. It wouldn't be the worst of ideas to eat Goff's dead cap in 2022, bring in a cheap stop gap, and try to find a QB of the future. (Hell, you might even be able to trade him for a Day 3 pick since he'd only cost the acquiring team $10.65M after the Lions pay his roster bonus.) At the end of the day, Goff is a mirror. I think of QBs as in three broad categories: elevators (elevate the talent around them), mirrors (reflect the talent around them), and anchors (drag down the talent around them). Goff has had points in his career where he has been each. But he has mostly been a mirror. If you put him in a good situation, he can produce good results (2020 excepted). If you put him in a bad situation, he'll produce bad results. And it's fair to say that the Lions shouldn't bank on a guy who needs all the right pieces around him to thrive. Goff sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 On 11/23/2021 at 5:52 AM, SimbaWho said: That was my post the NIGHT OF the Stafford trade and why I wasn't so pumped even though it was hailed as the greatest trade in DETROIT sports history. Everyone act like i'm crazy, and it's cool, I don't care. I just have to toot my own horn at times cause you all like to label me crazy/dumb and I get worried about myself... BUT!!! I get them wrong too, I liked Penei Sewell and thought he could be generational... and didn't want anything to do with Micah Parsons. Obviously I'm wrong but hey... I think I can read the Fords/ Lions like a elementary book. I just always imagine what I would do if I had no idea what I was doing... (Like when I flirt with women or try and raise children... ) Honestly, the more depressing issue about the aforementioned post is that some stupid idiot fan guy behind a computer can predict or rationalize a situation and things; Have more foresight or equal foresight to the current guys in charge or even ownership. They're supposed to be light years ahead of my thought process. (An they are in-terms of business income, etc.) Fords/Ownership have no idea how to win in football, an so till they get lucky and hit that nail on the head with the GM or Coach, they'll always be bad. An that's all the hire will be, pure luck. I'm not writing off Holmes yet, he's got this off-season basically to set his whole table and make me look like an idiot. I hope he does! So many opportunity's within the next two years even though I'm whinning about QB. Holmes could do some BOLD things, though Lions are ultra conservative so I don't see it... But after this off-season, we'll know a lot, a whole lot. It'll take more than 1 more off season to be a good/playoff team but the guys Holmes keeps/signs this off-season will signal a lot in what he's capable of evaluating going forward. Specially at QB, he doesn't need the franchise guy this year, but, who he does bring in will tell me everything I need to know about Holmes going forward. So you're not ready to write off Holmes, but you're ready to write off Dan Campbell, Penei Sewell and SFH? This is all of their first season with the Lions. My issue is, you believe you have more foresight than everyone else, but you waffle just as much and contradict yourself constantly. It's okay to be confident, but there is a fine line between confidence and cockiness. Lions didn't "win" the Stafford trade. I also don't remember anyone anointing the move as "the greatest trade in DETROIT sports history". Stafford asked to be traded, preferably to a contender. Lions went out and got numerous good offers, and took the one that was best for themselves and Matthew Stafford. Jared Goff wasn't what made the trade good for Detroit. Two 1st rd picks, a 3rd rd pick, and doing right by their star QB, after being black listed for Calvin Johnson running his mouth since retirement, made this a good deal for Detroit. It gives them pieces to build. Not for this season, but for 3 years down the road. How anyone can look at this trade less than one season later and judge it is baffling. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFL_Fan Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Louis Friend said: So you're not ready to write off Holmes, but you're ready to write off Dan Campbell, Penei Sewell and SFH? This is all of their first season with the Lions. My issue is, you believe you have more foresight than everyone else, but you waffle just as much and contradict yourself constantly. It's okay to be confident, but there is a fine line between confidence and cockiness. Lions didn't "win" the Stafford trade. I also don't remember anyone anointing the move as "the greatest trade in DETROIT sports history". Stafford asked to be traded, preferably to a contender. Lions went out and got numerous good offers, and took the one that was best for themselves and Matthew Stafford. Jared Goff wasn't what made the trade good for Detroit. Two 1st rd picks, a 3rd rd pick, and doing right by their star QB, after being black listed for Calvin Johnson running his mouth since retirement, made this a good deal for Detroit. It gives them pieces to build. Not for this season, but for 3 years down the road. How anyone can look at this trade less than one season later and judge it is baffling. I agree..every fan should know they were not going to compete this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Jeezla said: Goff sucks Being an Eagles fan, you would know about sucky QBs. So I'll take your word for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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