Week 11: Raiders vs. Bengals - here kitty kitty

[dante9876]

17 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

It's basic football knowledge, it's not a hard concept to grasp.  

I get fans are pissed off and rightfully so but blaming Carr for this the state of this franchise is both baseless and foolish.  

Lol. You so over the top. Nobody is blaming carr for how bad the franchise is.  It's just time to move on period. Dont care If people think he sucks or is a hall of fame. Fact is he and the Raiders don't work. It's proven. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by dante9876

[Frankie2Gunz]

Just now, dante9876 said:

Lions moved on from stafford. And now they suck amd lack talent. But they not spending their wheels and can try to rebuild their team. Carr in the same position. Move on.  He can take his fans with him 

The Lions are a joke and will be for years.  There is no sign of them turning the corner anytime soon and they have a bum at QB.

[TLO]

6 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

The fact that you don't think football is a team game and W/L's are all on a QB is all I need to know....

I like Carr and don’t think he’s close to being the biggest problem with the franchise. But it’s still time to move on. I’m sure nobody in Cincy regrets moving on from Dalton and landing Burrow. 

[roi34]

Let carr go to stable franchise. if he plays good ill.be happy for him. 

 

the list of qbs thing is a silly point. The only way to get a qb who is young and build a franchise around is to draft him. If no one drafted qbs in first herbert, mahomes, lamat, burrow wouldnt exist either. 

[ronjon1990]

Just now, dante9876 said:

If you feel it's likely that the new front office will be bad, what is the point of keeping carr. To win 7 or 8 games a year maybe. It doesn't make sense. 

Yep.

I love Carr. I hate that we've failed to give him any real consistent talent, burdened him with constant turnover at OC and even HC, and routinely screwed the pooch on building around him. 

I think he could go to a talented, stable team and be successful. And I don't think many QBs come in on this squad and yield much better results. Maybe like 3 guys? Even then, it's a 50/50. 

The run game is basically non-existent, our O-line is banged up and 4/5 of the guys on it wouldn't start on good teams at the moment, and our WR corps consists of a TE people scheme for, a criminally underutilized TE2, a tiny hard working slot guy, and a bunch of backup caliber guys being thrust into far more snaps than they should be getting, and playcalling is just atrocious. 

Those are just facts. It all needs to be fixed. It doesn't mean Carr is banished to backup land and is a terrible QB. He could go on and be the next Stafford or he could be somewhere between Sam Darnold and Andy Dalton. Nobody can be quite sure because the dysfunction on this team goes well beyond a single player. 

With that in mind, he's probably far more valuable to us as a trade asset at this point. This thing is getting blown up. And it needs to. Outside of Waller, he might be the only player on our offense that could even drum up any interest, and being a QB in a QB needy league, he's likely to garner more interest at a higher value. 

This is another 3-5 year rebuild that's coming up. Carr isn't our QBOTF anymore. And with the impending rebuild, we can sign a cheap Fitzpatrick type to be a bridge at a much cheaper rate while gaining some ammo for Carr. It just makes more sense for all parties to have a clean break and fresh start. 

We want him to prove himself, but he's working with backup level talent. It's an impossible ask. If he goes elsewhere and wins a Superbowl in January 2023, damn good on him. I hope he does, if only for being so loyal to us while the dumpster filled with trash. But I won't feel like we missed out by trading him, because this fix isn't going to happen with him. He would need to be an all-time top 5 QB to keep this sinking ship afloat, and even then, I question whether that's even realistically possible.

But that's what it would be, keeping a sinking ship afloat. Even if we won out and Carr wound up with 40 TDs, 12INTs and 5000+ yards, it's clear as day that it wouldn't be some turned corner. It would be an improbable run, but not indicative of something sustainable for the coming seasons. 

[ronjon1990]

20 minutes ago, TLO said:

What if we draft the next Josh Allen? Or Mahomes? Or Jackson? Or Watson (sans legal issues)? Or Herbert? Jury is obviously still out on this most recent draft, but I’d probably rather have Mac Jones

Hell, Mayfield already has more career playoff wins than Carr. 

Even drafting a top 3 All-Time QB isn't a quick fix. 

If we draft any of those guys, I would bet my left nut none of them are viewed the way they're viewed. Allen, Jackson, Jones, and Herbert all probably flop to varying degrees. Watson lost a ton of games despite arguably better talent than we've surrounded Carr with consistently. Heck, even Mahomes is far from infallible and he's playing with some of the league's best weapons. 

It goes way beyond the QB with this team. It's not a good team being held back by a single player, it's a bad team being buoyed by a couple of really good and a couple of above average guys trying to keep the pumps pumping while we sink. 

Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Pat Mahomes, none of them make this a truly better team year in, year out as it currently stands. A magical QB may score some more points, but look how that utra fast TD fared for GB earlier. Our D is maybe slightly above average, but they're still not good at getting off the field or avoiding dumb penalties that hemorrhage points. Rodgers comes in and throws up 35 on Cincy today, Cincy probably scores 38. 

[Totty]

Again.  I'm back to blowing it up.  Complete rebuild. Kinda what Jon did when he came in.  Anyone worth anything under 25 stays.  Everyone else, kick rocks.  

[MrOaktown_56]

7 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Even drafting a top 3 All-Time QB isn't a quick fix. 

If we draft any of those guys, I would bet my left nut none of them are viewed the way they're viewed. Allen, Jackson, Jones, and Herbert all probably flop to varying degrees. Watson lost a ton of games despite arguably better talent than we've surrounded Carr with consistently. Heck, even Mahomes is far from infallible and he's playing with some of the league's best weapons. 

It goes way beyond the QB with this team. It's not a good team being held back by a single player, it's a bad team being buoyed by a couple of really good and a couple of above average guys trying to keep the pumps pumping while we sink. 

Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Pat Mahomes, none of them make this a truly better team year in, year out as it currently stands. A magical QB may score some more points, but look how that utra fast TD fared for GB earlier. Our D is maybe slightly above average, but they're still not good at getting off the field or avoiding dumb penalties that hemorrhage points. Rodgers comes in and throws up 35 on Cincy today, Cincy probably scores 38. 

It's the issue. And the worst part is, even if we can get Rodgers and Wilson, why would they want to play here?

We commit **** penalties. Our coaches are scared. This team shuts down every year in the 2nd half. I wouldn't want to play for this team.

[Jeremy408]

2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

And with his annual second half, he will make all the excuses under the sun. 

I’m not gonna lie I’ve been a pretty staunch supporter of Carr but he’s been doing some pre-Gruden things that I really don’t like lately. sure we can do the whole henry rugs in there anymore thing. But I’m talking about his inability to take care of the football is my concern. This was the stuff he was doing before Gruden got here (minus the 2016 season when they were playing bottom 10 teams/bottom 10 defenses). I think He can bounce back but right now it’s not looking good.

[SimonGruber]

29 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

All that clowns crap need to stop. I aint call you one name. No matter how idiotic fan boy loving Carr I think you are being. Carr is about to be on his 3rd gm if he stays. So kinda looks like you got a great chance of getting fired if you keep him to. 

My dude talks down to other fellow posters like nobody’s business.

[MrOaktown_56]

33 minutes ago, roi34 said:

Let carr go to stable franchise. if he plays good ill.be happy for him. 

 

the list of qbs thing is a silly point. The only way to get a qb who is young and build a franchise around is to draft him. If no one drafted qbs in first herbert, mahomes, lamat, burrow wouldnt exist either. 

I actually really like Malik Willis. At least in terms of his mobility. Haven't done a deep dive on qb's in a while.

[dante9876]

7 minutes ago, Totty said:

Again.  I'm back to blowing it up.  Complete rebuild. Kinda what Jon did when he came in.  Anyone worth anything under 25 stays.  Everyone else, kick rocks.  

It makes the most sense. We been to the playoffs one time in forever. It was the one time we kinda did the process right. Davis hired a gm and let him handle football operations. No matter how you feel about reggie and if he was bad. The process was correct. We have to do that process again. Just don't hire a bunch of TV guys again. Hire a gm, let him hire his coach or hire them together. No coach hire the gm though. No Mark telling gm who to hire as the coach.  

[Jeremy408]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I actually really like Malik Willis.

He’s probably going to go high. Plus he played a lower Level of football so he’s gonna take some time to develop

[Jeremy408]

19 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Even drafting a top 3 All-Time QB isn't a quick fix. 

If we draft any of those guys, I would bet my left nut none of them are viewed the way they're viewed. Allen, Jackson, Jones, and Herbert all probably flop to varying degrees. Watson lost a ton of games despite arguably better talent than we've surrounded Carr with consistently. Heck, even Mahomes is far from infallible and he's playing with some of the league's best weapons. 

It goes way beyond the QB with this team. It's not a good team being held back by a single player, it's a bad team being buoyed by a couple of really good and a couple of above average guys trying to keep the pumps pumping while we sink. 

Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Pat Mahomes, none of them make this a truly better team year in, year out as it currently stands. A magical QB may score some more points, but look how that utra fast TD fared for GB earlier. Our D is maybe slightly above average, but they're still not good at getting off the field or avoiding dumb penalties that hemorrhage points. Rodgers comes in and throws up 35 on Cincy today, Cincy probably scores 38. 

My thing is as bad as Carrs been blowing I don’t know if there’s anybody better that we can get right now. And that’s just being honest

[BayRaider]

44 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Here’s where I’m at on Carr. I don’t think he will pull it together enough for us to make the playoffs. The offensive coaches are trash anyways let’s be honest. 
 

Bring in a new coach and roll with what they want to do. If they want to trade him, fine. If they want to roll with him, fine but you better play to his strengths and run a passing offense. 
 

I’d prefer to try and make a big trade for a veteran qb like Wilson or Rodgers, but I don’t know how it’s feasible. 
 

If Mayock isn’t on board, or mark thinks he made a lot of these bad picks, fire him too. Bring in a young analytics GM, reload the team and cut bait with Ferrell and Abram. Bring in a new right tackle. Sign a good WR like Allen Robinson. 
 

The pass defense is good. The run defense can be fixed by adding a good DT and drafting another LB. 

Only issue I have with this post is, is the pass defense actually good? Let’s wait until the end of the year. They have had the easiest pass defensive schedule that I have certainly seen any team ever have. Like literally ever. They have faced garbage QB’s and garbage pass offenses literally all season. They have faced one “for sure” Top 10 QB all season long in Mahomes, and he had a career game against us and completely clowned our defense. Some have Herbert in the Top 10, some don’t. And Burrow doesn’t sniff the Top 10 at this point of his career. 14 topps. Probably 16ish. 

If our pass defense can do good against Dak, that would be something. But probably a career game for him as well.