big_palooka Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 9 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: I’m not gonna lie I’ve been a pretty staunch supporter of Carr but he’s been doing some pre-Gruden things that I really don’t like lately. sure we can do the whole henry rugs in there anymore thing. But I’m talking about his inability to take care of the football is my concern. This was the stuff he was doing before Gruden got here (minus the 2016 season when they were playing bottom 10 teams/bottom 10 defenses). I think He can bounce back but right now it’s not looking good. I said it during the game. I think Carr is showing he needed a coach to tell him what to do and guide him. His 2016 season, Musgrave was on him, he didn't have a lot of audible power, etc. 2017, his boy Downing takes over and he falls off a cliff. Took Gruden a few years to rebuild him. I thought he'd play better without Gruden's influence. I was wrong. Gruden got the best out of him. He's back to being quick to check down. Not even looking at his WRs on the outside now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 9 hours ago, dante9876 said: It makes the most sense. We been to the playoffs one time in forever. It was the one time we kinda did the process right. Davis hired a gm and let him handle football operations. No matter how you feel about reggie and if he was bad. The process was correct. We have to do that process again. Just don't hire a bunch of TV guys again. Hire a gm, let him hire his coach or hire them together. No coach hire the gm though. No Mark telling gm who to hire as the coach. That "process" was Davis taking control and hiring his own HC (Del Rio) and pairing him with Reggie. That playoff season was an anomaly. The AFC West wasn't very good. KC didn't have Mahomes, Denver was in a post Manning funk. Chargers were the Chargers. That season was less about the process and more right place, right time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Gruden got the best out of him. Glad you said it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, big_palooka said: That "process" was Davis taking control and hiring his own HC (Del Rio) and pairing him with Reggie. That playoff season was an anomaly. The AFC West wasn't very good. KC didn't have Mahomes, Denver was in a post Manning funk. Chargers were the Chargers. That season was less about the process and more right place, right time. KC didn't have Mahomes, still won the division and beat the Raiders twice with Carr at QB. Carr was bad in those 2 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Anyway, we can start talking about the offseason already, this one is over for us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 TOP: 37/22. An elite defense might overcome that. Same thing as last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: KC didn't have Mahomes, still won the division and beat the Raiders twice with Carr at QB. Carr was bad in those 2 games. Dang... you're right. I'd forgotten that. KC has always had his number. They were talking about him folding under pressure all the way back then. Not much has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 minute ago, big_palooka said: Dang... you're right. I'd forgotten that. KC has always had his number. They were talking about him folding under pressure all the way back then. Not much has changed. List of QBs the Raiders played that year: Brees, Ryan, Mariota, Flacco, Rivers (x2), Alex Smith (x2), Bortles, Winston, Siemian (x2), Osweiler, Newton, Tyrod Taylor, Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: Anyway, we can start talking about the offseason already, this one is over for us. I'm really at a loss with what to expect. I have no faith in Davis to identify a quality GM/HC combination. He's rumored to have a small circle of advisors (who I'd assume all have ties to the Raiders) helping in this decision. Consensus here seems to be on a rebuild. Which is funny, because Gruden really didn't build anything with failed free agents and drafts over his tenure. Davis has to nail this. He has to get a winning product on the field soon in Vegas. A "rebuild" would start at QB. Tough year to need one in the draft. If one of the vet guys becomes available, that's the quickest route to relevancy. There are pieces at the skill spots. I'd argue a better QB could get more out of guys like Edwards and Moreau. They have a LT. Need to retool the Oline and a WR. Defense has 2 pass rushers and some decent coverage options. The right HC/QB could win with this group quickly re-tooling a few things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 25 minutes ago, big_palooka said: That "process" was Davis taking control and hiring his own HC (Del Rio) and pairing him with Reggie. That playoff season was an anomaly. The AFC West wasn't very good. KC didn't have Mahomes, Denver was in a post Manning funk. Chargers were the Chargers. That season was less about the process and more right place, right time. That's why I said kinda. That's when it went bad. Davis blame reggie for Dennis Allen. Even though it was clear that when reggie took over this wasn't a desirable job. Than Davis started getting involved in football decisions and it all went to hell. And even though reggie whiffed plenty. It was clear his team had more talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 Just now, dante9876 said: That's why I said kinda. That's when it went bad. Davis blame reggie for Dennis Allen. Even though it was clear that when reggie took over this wasn't a desirable job. Than Davis started getting involved in football decisions and it all went to hell. And even though reggie whiffed plenty. It was clear his team had more talent. No doubt. Having even a modicum of consistency in the FO post Al has yielded some talent. It's the crippling mistakes that have overshadowed it. The team wallows in 3-5 win territory. But they don't fee close to breaking past .500 either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, big_palooka said: A "rebuild" would start at QB. Tough year to need one in the draft. If one of the vet guys becomes available, that's the quickest route to relevancy. Trade Carr for picks. Sign a stopgap, install a system and draft a QB in 2023. 2022 is another losing season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: Trade Carr for picks. Sign a stopgap, install a system and draft a QB in 2023. 2022 is another losing season. I don't hate it. But what are you installing in 2022 under a new HC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, big_palooka said: I don't hate it. But what are you installing in 2022 under a new HC? The offense a new QB would step into. Might even trade Waller while he has good value. Let Moreau get an opportunity to start and see if he can be a building block worth a 2nd contract. Waller is turning 30 next year. Edited November 22, 2021 by oakdb36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, big_palooka said: There are pieces at the skill spots. The right HC/QB could win with this group quickly re-tooling a few things. +1 When teams are blowing it all up, they're often starting with nothing. We'd be starting with a franchise LT in place and a pair of very good DEs. These are some of the most important positions in the sport, and theoretically it should be simpler to build around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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